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Technical 100hp intermittent power steering fault?

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Technical 100hp intermittent power steering fault?

don't bother with a video. I am sure it will be the meter


test the battery at rest should be between 12.4-12.8V and 12.6V is ideal.


if its over 12.6V take the surface charge off. Put the main beam on for a few minutes wait a few minutes and retest until its around 12.6V


start the car and immediately switch on as much electrical equipment as possible

flasher
main beam
rear window
fans max
wipers
aircon
radio

and so on

the voltage across the battery should be at least .5V greater than when you started

then check it doesn't drop when turning the steering from lock to lock.


clean the top of the battery terminals with a scouring pad. Measure from the top of the negative terminal to the case of the alternator. Then raise the revs. Should be below .2V. Then do the same from the alternators output to the positive terminal.
 
measured the battery just before i left to go home from work.

measured 12.6v

i then started the car, the voltage dropped as expected, then settled quickly to around 14.15v.

i raised the rpm and this stayed constant.

i tested with my friends VW scirrocco and his was very similar,actually sat at a lower voltage after a while and wasnt anywhere near as consistent as the panda.

i didnt immediately turn lots of loads on, but when i did there was a very slight drop in voltage for a split second, and then it compensated and maintained the 14.15v again.

my friend had to leave so didnt get a chance to check the power steering drain on the battery voltage and it was too dark to try and measure the voltage drop at the points you mentioned so will try tomorrow.

it has been ok since the other day, so i could be that it was cold, had been left for a bit and i started the car and went to full lock straight away!? its still disappointing that the power steering seems to be running on a knife edge as to whether it works or not.
 
Still seems ok. Weather is warming up admittedly though.

Must be doing it some good to be used every day, just need to squeeze on some longer journeys as the short ones can't be great for it
 
might do it some Good to go on a trickle charger

There's no way of knowing how long its been sat around before being sold


they loose around 4% per week roughly even if they aren't connected to anything


3 or 4 weeks are dodgy and about 6 weeks to permanently damage a battery.


there should be two dates on the battery. Not sure which is which. From memory the laser engraved one is the factory charge date. But I could be wrong. And may depend on which brand
 
I did stick my charger on it for an hour or so when I got the battery home and it said it was fully charged.
 
That is so true!
I bought my Punto 1.2 8V in 2015 and it had the fault steering at the time. In winter it got worse. I made it a little better by spraying contact spray inside the electric motor and then heating it up to dry. It worked intermittently for over 3 years, in the end when it went out, the sterring was realy heavy, not just like when EPS is disconnected but like it was blocking the steering. The offered fix was to by a new column which we all know is very expensive. I bought an entire sh column, cheap price, thinking the electric motor is what I need to replace (they wouldn't sell me just the motor). I installed only the motor and it was the same. I installed the entire column, but that was broken, off-center shaft and faulty torque sensor. On that column I learned how easy is to replace the sensor, you just have to be very careful when touching the sensor, not to push onto it.
Bought a new sensor afterwards, wich is a lot cheaper than a new column, installed it, calibrated it and it works great. No problem since then, it's been more than 2 years ago or so, can't remember exactly when I changed it and you know what... it's great not to remember about the steering problems!
So my advice to you is to consider buying a new torque sensor. It will fix the steering problems.
PS: I did changed the battery while having the faulty sensor and I thought the same: "Hmmm... it was just a battery problem, that's why the steering didn't work, EPS needs steady good voltage". Of course that did not last long and the problem was back again until I replaced the sensor.
 
koalar said:
might do it some Good to go on a trickle charger

There's no way of knowing how long its been sat around before being sold


they loose around 4% per week roughly even if they aren't connected to anything


3 or 4 weeks are dodgy and about 6 weeks to permanently damage a battery.


there should be two dates on the battery. Not sure which is which. From memory the laser engraved one is the factory charge date. But I could be wrong. And may depend on which brand
Click to expand...

While I agree battery’s will self discharge and I always charge a new battery before fitting it I can’t say I agree with your time periods. 6 weeks to permanent damage. Can’t see how that’s so, my 2005 Mk3 4x4 can sit months at a time without use, the battery doesn’t even go flat, let alone permanently damaged. And this is on a car I’ve had nearly 3.5 years, and it looks like a cheap euro car parts battery that was far from new when I bought the car anyway.

On your reckoning it should be long gone.

EDIT: just realised it’s actually nearly 4.5 years I’ve had it now! ��
 
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Most Easterly Pandas said:
While I agree battery’s will self discharge and I always charge a new battery before fitting it I can’t say I agree with your time periods. 6 weeks to permanent damage. Can’t see how that’s so, my 2005 Mk3 4x4 can sit months at a time without use, the battery doesn’t even go flat, let alone permanently damaged. And this is on a car I’ve had nearly 3.5 years, and it looks like a cheap euro car parts battery that was far from new when I bought the car anyway.

On your reckoning it should be long gone.
Click to expand...

Agreed a battery should easily last 6 month with minimal power lost if sat disconnectd

6 week is probably tire connected upto a car with a small battery draw from it
But not on its own
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
While I agree battery’s will self discharge and I always charge a new battery before fitting it I can’t say I agree with your time periods. 6 weeks to permanent damage. Can’t see how that’s so, my 2005 Mk3 4x4 can sit months at a time without use, the battery doesn’t even go flat, let alone permanently damaged. And this is on a car I’ve had nearly 3.5 years, and it looks like a cheap euro car parts battery that was far from new when I bought the car anyway.

On your reckoning it should be long gone.

EDIT: just realised it’s actually nearly 4.5 years I’ve had it now! ��
Click to expand...


I did say it wouldn't work


but according to a manufactures information it is starting to be damaged

"lead acid batteries discharge when not in use? All batteries, regardless of their chemistry, will self-discharge. The rate of self-discharge for lead acid batteries depends on the storage or operating temperature. At a temperature of 80 degrees F. a lead acid battery will self-discharge at a rate of approximately 4% a week. A battery with a 125-amp hour rating would self-discharge at a rate of approximately five amps per week. Keeping this in mind if a 125 AH battery is stored for four months (16 weeks) winter without being charged, it will loose 80 amps of its 125-amp capacity. It will also have severe sulfation, which causes additional loss of capacity. Keep your batteries charged while not in use!"


https://www.progressivedyn.com/serv...battery will,approximately five amps per week.



even without the 4% a week discharge there also the the drain from the body computer which is 30-50ma depending on model. A 50A battery would be down to the recommended minimum of 80% after 83 days

not sure how a battery can last 6 months in a car without damage

I have repaired several salvage cars. By the time they have cleared the battery has always been dead.
 
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Motorbikes which have small batteries (obviously) only just big enough when in good condition. They have to be kept on a conditioning charger (Optimate etc) or they'll be scrapped in a couple of months.
Many bikers have moved to LiFePO4 (LFP) lithium batteries which lose just 10% in 12 months without damage, assuming no pull from the vehicle. A 4AH will do the same job as a 14 AH Lead acid for similar cost and a fraction of the size and weight. I fitted my 4 Amp Hour LFP into the Panda to see how it performed. It was perfect no steering issues and frankly you would never know it was so tiny.
The snag is they struggle to deliver engine start current below 5°. Two or three "failed" start attempts warm the battery and then it works fine. But low system volts can cause all sorts of hassle and who wants all that on every frosty morning.
 
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Car is better with the fresh battery, but I still get random intermittent issues. Ranges from just the warning light and still working to complete loss of power steering.

No rhyme or reason.

It works more than it doesn't, but it's still not right......
 
It's the torque sensor that is at fault there. Mine did the same, I bought it with fault sensor, didn't know too much about it at the time and managed to kind of make it work for a couple of years by spraying contact spray inside the electrical motor and drying it. But it worked like yours, most of the times working and pretty often getting the dash bord light for it and then starting to not work anymore.
I got it fixed by replacing the torque sensor with a new one and calibrating it after instalation. All good since then.
 
koalar said:
i would do a re calibration before changing the sensor.


how did the earth voltage drop test go ?
Click to expand...

How much is the software to do a recalibration? I found a company that does a guaranteed recon for £190. If I have to get a sensor too, then i would be just as well to just send the thing away.

I checked voltage drops at certain points and it is all good. Pretty much 0 difference. I confirmed by testing with the car off and doing straight resistance tests too.
A few years back I did go round all the ground connections anyway just as a matter of course, so that probably helped.

The sensor looked like a pretty sealed unit, so didn't think it would be easy to spray something on it???
 
dac69er said:
The sensor looked like a pretty sealed unit, so didn't think it would be easy to spray something on it???
Click to expand...

I did not sprayed anything into the sensor, I did into the electrical motor. It has a sensor too, but it was not faulty. Somehow that helped a little. Like before spraying I had the light and the EPS would't work at all. After spray, it worked but very soon it wouldn't work and work again after restarting the engine. So I wouldn't name that quite a fix, was just a postponement and during that time the EPS really kept bugging me.
Regarding the software costs... you can even find software for free, if you need I can send you mine by email (I have FiatEcuScan that I use on a windows xp and I have a MultiEcuScan that I didn't use yet cause the other one works ok, it doesn't work on newer versions of windows). But to use the software you need diagnose tool. I bought two ELM 327 v1.5 and VAGKKL+FIATECUSCAN to be able to connect to all modules (the VAGKKL is needed for airbag module and ABS if you have one, I don't, rest of modules like engine, steering work with ELM that one I use most often). I payed about 35 ponds on both, I don't know how much they cost now where you are.
But if you don't want to buy the tool, I think you can find someone who has the tool to do it for you, just check first, maybe you can find someone on this forum who lives nearby.
My advise is to buy a new sensor if you want to give it a good fix, with those sh you are not sure what you buy and there can be problems (check this thread:
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-ii/480193-power-steering.html).
The cost of new torque sensor is really not too much and you can do a clean fix and not having problemes with the steering afterwards.
But of course, you choose what suits you best.
 
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koalar said:
are you near Cheshire ??


I don't have MES anymore but have a multiplexer and a couple of bits of software that should work
Click to expand...

I'm about 4 hours away :( it's not really classed as an essential journey either!

I will have a look into software. I have the free MES, but that doesn't let you do much.
 
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