Technical 100hp intermittent power steering fault?

[koalar]

just checking you haven't got one of the insurance black box's fitted or anything else to the obdii port

know to cause a drain and

C1001 delphi steering electric motor
C1004 delphi steering alternator signal
C1003 delphi steering vehicle speed
U1601 delphi steering CAN line error with signal

errors

 

[dac69er]

Battery was from ecp. Was in warranty. Had to argue the toss a bit as they "tested" it and said it was fine.

Got the replacement in and it done the trick.

Thanks all. Bit of an odd one. I guess the combination of short journeys, cold weather and lack of use all contributed.

Can't beat the older cars that start with a pretty knackered old battery.

 

[koalar]

Battery was from ecp. Was in warranty. Had to argue the toss a bit as they "tested" it and said it was fine.

Got the replacement in and it done the trick.

Thanks all. Bit of an odd one. I guess the combination of short journeys, cold weather and lack of use all contributed.

Can't beat the older cars that start with a pretty knackered old battery.

wish there was a simple way to test. All's well that ends well.

we know battery testers aren't conclusive
we know voltage meters aren't conclusive


looking at the circuit diagrams we don't even know which power supply the EPS is looking at

it had two earths and two plus volts

First is direct from the battery negative and positive. I guess for the motor

the second is from the alternator and grounded in the passenger footwell . I guess for its brains

although they are technically tied together and the alternators output controlled by the body computer

I feel if we monitor the voltage difference between the two positives and two earths we might get to the the bottom of the error. Maybe ???


I have basically given up. For me substitution is simple and quick. But would be nice for people that don't have spare batteries.

I know it shuts down to protect the engine ECU so you can get home. As its the same logic used on many makes and models.

 

[dac69er]

Just seems madness that a battery that would probably power a "simpler" car for much longer is now going to be scrapped/recycled. I hate replacing serviceable items as it seems so wasteful.

 

[DaveMcT]

It's the price we pay for cheaper power steering systems. The intermittent power demands are really high at exactly the point where the system is least able to cope.

It's one of many reasons why I'm so in favour of the old Citroen LHM hydraulic system, which powered the steering, brakes and suspension. It was used on their low cost GS/GSA models so can't have been silly money compared to the alternatives.

It wont happen today because the components manufacturers wont get involved.

 

[koalar]

I think this is a third in a row that been the battery that has been back to the garage and they tested okay

its the second in a row were a new battery has failed within a couple of years

we probably need to do some more research

make, model, capacity, CCA

collective power on here should be able to see some sort of pattern

especially if we log batteries that last a long time also.

 

[DaveMcT]

Ive just fitted a Yuasa Silver 55AH. £60 delivered from Tanya batteries.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/YBX5012-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

This is a Yuasa blurb
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/batteries/a...-high-performance-smf-batteries/show/all.html
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/batteries/a...r-high-performance-smf-batteries/ybx5012.html

 

[dac69er]

odd thing is the original battery that failed not long after getting the car 5+ years ago needed me to bump start it in a car park and the power steering still worked fine once we got it going!

first battery was original fiat, lasted about 80k miles and about 7 years.

second battery was a third hand one from my cinq. an exide one is all i can remember. this lasted about 3 years. think it was this one?
https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteries/exide/eb442/

third battery was a varta blue. lasted less than a year, kept getting power steering faults on and off:
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/varta-blue-012-car-battery-4-year-guarantee-444770122

now it has a bosch:
https://www.tayna.co.uk/car-batteri...MIwaOHqKyo7gIVwZ7tCh2IjwCFEAQYASABEgI2vPD_BwE

 

[koalar]

nothing is jumping out at me I was expecting something like low CCA


as far as I remember both of mine were still on there original although both faulty


they certainly were the smaller square type and the cars were roughly 10 years old

 

[dac69er]

Car hasn't been used since the battery was replaced. Used it yesterday and still perfectly fine. Very odd, but glad it's sorted. Perhaps the previous battery has never been great and it was just on borrowed time!?

 

[chris3234]

Battery was from ecp. Was in warranty. Had to argue the toss a bit as they "tested" it and said it was fine.

Got the replacement in and it done the trick.

Thanks all. Bit of an odd one. I guess the combination of short journeys, cold weather and lack of use all contributed.

Can't beat the older cars that start with a pretty knackered old battery.

It wasn't one of those lion brand ones was it?

 

[koalar]

It wasn't one of those lion brand ones was it?

according to their previous post

They paid a premium for a Varta Blue 012 Car Battery with a 4 Year Guarantee

its certainly two power steering problems in row thats only lasted a year or two. Thinking back there was the a similar one where the steering column was changed because the battery was fairly new and they went back to the garage which tested the battery as okay.

normally these threads go round and round in circles as there isnt a simple test unless you have another battery and its hard to believe that a new battery had failed again.


car batteries don't like not being fully charge. I fully expect some more not to survive the winter and covid

If the car isnt going to get used for a few weeks it really need disconnecting and topped up every month or so with a trickle charger..

 

[dac69er]

according to their previous post

They paid a premium for a Varta Blue 012 Car Battery with a 4 Year Guarantee

its certainly two power steering problems in row thats only lasted a year or two. Thinking back there was the a similar one where the steering column was changed because the battery was fairly new and they went back to the garage which tested the battery as okay.

normally these threads go round and round in circles as there isnt a simple test unless you have another battery and its hard to believe that a new battery had failed again.


car batteries don't like not being fully charge. I fully expect some more not to survive the winter and covid

If the car isnt going to get used for a few weeks it really need disconnecting and topped up every month or so with a trickle charger..

Spoke too soon. Drove off the driveway and same issue, steering went heavy and fault on the dash.

I guess the battery is just a plaster that prolongs the inevitable, a new column.

The car normally gets a short run once or twice a week, its just hard with lockdown as you shoukdnt be going very far.
Well at least the battery is new and should last a couple of years.

I will have to enquire about a replacement column I guess

 

[koalar]

Spoke too soon. Drove off the driveway and same issue, steering went heavy and fault on the dash.

I guess the battery is just a plaster that prolongs the inevitable, a new column.

The car normally gets a short run once or twice a week, its just hard with lockdown as you shoukdnt be going very far.
Well at least the battery is new and should last a couple of years.

I will have to enquire about a replacement column I guess

Your RX8 battery was okay

are you sure the aux belt isn't slipping. Cars without aircon have to be adjusted now and again. If they are very slack they don't squeal

how many volts at the battery terminal when idling ?

 

[dac69er]

Your RX8 battery was okay

are you sure the aux belt isn't slipping. Cars without aircon have to be adjusted now and again. If they are very slack they don't squeal

how many volts at the battery terminal when idling ?

The rx8 Battery was ok, but so was the new battery initially.
I couldn't drive the car with the rx8 Battery fitted as it was huge and needed the battery tray removing to wedge it in place to test it. The rx8 Battery had been on a trickle charger indoors.

No issue with charging as per last time, 14v straight away as soon as the car has started. Starts on the button.
Belts are fine, never squeak or anything and it has aircon so it's a self adjuster.

 

[koalar]

The rx8 Battery was ok, but so was the new battery initially.
I couldn't drive the car with the rx8 Battery fitted as it was huge and needed the battery tray removing to wedge it in place to test it. The rx8 Battery had been on a trickle charger indoors.

No issue with charging as per last time, 14v straight away as soon as the car has started. Starts on the button.
Belts are fine, never squeak or anything and it has aircon so it's a self adjuster.

14V dead


I have tested two and both were 14.4V ? the regulator is controlled by the body computer both were bang on


I have I third I can check but will be tomorrow night.


put the pandas battery on trickle. And see if the fault goes away.

 

[dac69er]

14V dead


I have tested two and both were 14.4V ? the regulator is controlled by the body computer both were bang on


I have I third I can check but will be tomorrow night.


put the pandas battery on trickle. And see if the fault goes away.

was 14v almost straight away after a start and crept up to 14.4v after a couple of seconds and held.

i am using the car this week to see if a bit of use will help. i had no issue this morning so it may have just been a blip.

im still convinced that a good battery just helps when the power steering is getting worn out and it could eventually die completely when the charging system just cant keep up anymore.

 

[DaveMcT]

My wife's 1.2 steering is still doing well 3 years after a new battery and 1 year after a new alternator. My 100HP is now struggling to reach 14.2 volts so I'm suspicious that trouble is brewing. I will swap to the new battery (just put on 1.2) and see what difference it makes.

 

[koalar]

was 14v almost straight away after a start and crept up to 14.4v after a couple of seconds and held.

i am using the car this week to see if a bit of use will help. i had no issue this morning so it may have just been a blip.

im still convinced that a good battery just helps when the power steering is getting worn out and it could eventually die completely when the charging system just cant keep up anymore.

mmmm

I don't think thats the same as an active I tested


it was about 4 years ago. and on an active and dynamic without aircon.

I checked the active while someone started it while the dynamic was probably already running. Both were defo 14.4V though as thats was what I was comparing at the time.


If its a cheap meter it could just be slow to wind up. If you touch the battery terminals while the engines off does it take time to wind up ?

 

[dac69er]

mmmm

I don't think thats the same as an active I tested


it was about 4 years ago. and on an active and dynamic without aircon.

I checked the active while someone started it while the dynamic was probably already running. Both were defo 14.4V though as thats was what I was comparing at the time.


If its a cheap meter it could just be slow to wind up. If you touch the battery terminals while the engines off does it take time to wind up ?

its a digital meter, so there is an element of delay, but nothing worth worrying about. i can take a video of the meter reading on startup, but im pretty sure its not an issue.
on a start, the battery voltage will drop and then recover.

i will check on a morning cold start and see if it is any worse then. i tested it yesterday about an hour or so after i had been out. i will also make sure i use my fluke meter from work as that is good quality.