Tuning 1.2 power?

[foggymx5]

Hi folks,

I am currently looking into the possibility of buying a panda as my second car. I currently own a highly modified mk1 mx5 which is used mostly as a toy. I also own a 2001 honda civic 1.6 vtec 5 door which is my work car, I am a videographer and have to carry a fair bit of gear with me at all times.

I don't find the civic inspiring at all and have recently come across some great reviews for the pandas.

I can't afford a 100hp sadly as my budget is around £1200 for now.

However I do love tinkering and I am wondering if I can maybe find a few extra horses for cheap in the future?

I am torn between a 1.2 or 1.3 diesel, I know the diesel is a tad punchier but they are slightly harder to come by.


Cheers.

 

[s and b]

hi foggymx5 nice to see you are considering a proper car but you seem to have put a misprint in your budget?

 

[The Pretender]

I have a 1.2 ltr.
It should have 69 hp it had 65.2 hp.
After placing a K&N panel filter and a remap i have 75.3 hp.
Torque went from 107.4 Nm to 122.7 Nm.
Topspeed is 170 + Km/h.

 

[foggymx5]

Thanks for the replies.

No misprint,you can pick up 1.2 dynamics for around £1000-£1200 here in the UK.

 

[Matt100HP]

If your budget is £1200 that's pretty much made the decision of 1.2 or 1.3 MJ by itself. I had a quick look on AutoTrader and the cheapest MJ seems to be £1650 and it's done nearly 200,000 miles.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Get a 1.2 and enjoy it for what it is. Don't expect to easily get more power out of it if you've a £1200 budget in the first place.

You'll get the standard slow 1.2 Panda's for that. The late 1.2 units had VVT and 69bhp, the rest only about 59 at best I believe, and you notice the difference.

 

[foggymx5]

Cheers guys,

What year did the 69bhp engines come in?

 

[portland_bill]

Cheers guys,

What year did the 69bhp engines come in?

I think the change to the 69hp engine was at the same time as the facelift that brought bigger, useful, mirrors. The engine may have changed before that, but all the bigger mirror ones (2010->) will have the 69hp engine. Unlikely on your budget.

The 60hp engine is soft, quiet and gentle. The gas pedal allows you to make different noises, rather than travel faster. It will pop along at the legal limits, and maintain them, but does take a while to get there.

The 69hp engine, as experienced in the 500, feels a lot more powerful than 9hp might suggest, but will do gentle without fuss.

Go with the 60hp, relax and go with the flow, without trying to compete.

 

[foggymx5]

Thats ok, I do have the mx5 for power and track days so I don't need the panda to be a speed demon, its just that for me, half the joy of owning a car is tweaking it and making it my own,the panda looks like a nice customisable platform.

Is the 59bhp engine the same one that comes in the punto mk2 1.2?

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The 69hp engine, as experienced in the 500, feels a lot more powerful than 9hp might suggest, but will do gentle without fuss.

Agreed. I was amazed at it in the 500 I had for 2 months. Quick as hell in comparison to our mk3 1.2 Eleganza, and still done 50+mpg on brim to brim calcs :devil:

 

[portland_bill]

Is the 59bhp engine the same one that comes in the punto mk2 1.2?

No.

The 59hp engine, (Edit: Oops! meant 69hp) as said somewhere above has variable valve timing. I think this was introduced with the 500 first, being rolled out to the others later. Panda got it late 2009 or early 2010, so Punto would be a similar age +/- a bit.

If you are thinking of an engine swap, this gets complicated. You'd need the whole engine management system, then getting that to talk to the body computer might be difficult. A complete crashed Panda would be the easiest answer, swapping all computers, and locks. (Ign key coded to the ECU!)

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

No.

The 59hp engine, as said somewhere above has variable valve timing. I think this was introduced with the 500 first, being rolled out to the others later. Panda got it late 2009 or early 2010, so Punto would be a similar age +/- a bit.

No it doesn't, its the 69hp with the VVT

59 is standard 1.2 Panda upto 2010ish.

 

[Jerseywurzel]

Mine is a 2011 Mylife, larger mirrors and 69hp. Not fast, but steady and with a little bit of oomph from a standing start.

 

[portland_bill]

No it doesn't, its the 69hp with the VVT

oops! Typo. Meant 69hp. Hit the wrong key, didn't proof read properly.
(Just keeping you on your toes, see if anyone is paying attention. Well done.)

 

[A3jeroen]

Haha

 

[Shires]

I owned the 1.2 60hp in a Mk2 Punto and I think that particular engine was ideal for a city car, because unlike most modern N/A petrol engines it was tuned for low down torque, making max torque at something silly like 2500RPM and pulling well far below that.

Having driven small engined but cammy 16v cars back-to-back with the Fiat unit around town they felt a bit gutless in comparison, unless they were ragged. On the open road it's a different story of course.

 

[jrkitching]

I think the change to the 69hp engine was at the same time as the facelift that brought bigger, useful, mirrors. The engine may have changed before that, but all the bigger mirror ones (2010->) will have the 69hp engine.

No, they don't.

The 69hp VVT engine came with the change from Euro4 to Euro5 in late 2010, some months after the facelift and the larger mirrors.

Quite a few facelift Pandas have the 60hp Euro 4 engine, so you cannot assume that a 1.2 Panda with the larger mirrors will have the higher power engine.

 

[portland_bill]

No, they don't.

The 69hp VVT engine came with the change from Euro4 to Euro5 in late 2010, some months after the facelift and the larger mirrors.

Quite a few facelift Pandas have the 60hp Euro 4 engine, so you cannot assume that a 1.2 Panda with the larger mirrors will have the higher power engine.

Thanks for that.

Makes finding a late model as an engine donor more difficult and more expensive.

 

[jrkitching]

Thanks for that.

Makes finding a late model as an engine donor more difficult and more expensive.

Don't write off the 60hp Eu4 engine.

As others have said, the 60hp engine is more flexible than the 69hp unit & is a bit more pleasant to drive around town as a result - it will run happily at 25mph in 5th, whereas the 69hp engine needs at least 28mph to shift up from 4th. Another point to consider is that the 60hp is definitely a non-interference engine & so you won't do any lasting damage if the cambelt breaks.

My own experience of these engines (I've one of each with the Panda & 500) is that you'd need to use the higher part of the rev range to notice any difference. I always keep below 2500 rpm for economy & I really can't notice the extra power in the Euro5 lump.

The old 1.1 unit is a different story; it has much less torque, so you really need to use the gearbox even to keep up with normal traffic, which makes it much less comfortable to drive in town & in consequence also uses rather more fuel. FIAT quietly dropped it from the range when the Euro5 engines were introduced.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I always keep below 2500 rpm for economy & I really can't notice the extra power in the Euro5 lump.

It's be interesting to see if you notice much of a loss in MPG even if you use that extra power in the rev range. To say I was pleasantly surprised by the 500's MPG over 2250 miles, even when driving throughout the rev range, is an understatement.