Technical 1.2 16v (188a5000) swap

[zisisv]

Hello,

I own a 2008 Panda with the 1.2 8v 60hp engine (188a4000) with 160k km (100k miles) on the clock. Engine runs perfectly with no problems at all. Recently I visited my local workshop (mechanic is a friend of mine and he also sells used parts) and someone had brought a mk2 Punto sporting with 100k kms crashed from behind!! He sold it to my mechanic for parts at a really low price. I asked him if I could take the engine in order to swap it in the panda and he told me that he would give it to me for free with the 6 speed box, the ecu and any other necessary part. But he wasn't 100% sure if it's a straight swap. Engine mounts are exactly the same.
I searched all over the internet but no one has done it before.
Given that it is a straight swap, do you think the 20hp gain worth the hassle? Would you swap the "bulletproof" 8v for the 16v?
Also are they electrically compatible?

Thanks in advance

 

[A3jeroen]

At least you will have to virginise de ECU. Otherwise it will not work with your Bodycomputer (Immobiliser will stay on).

gr J

 

[jrkitching]

I searched all over the internet but no one has done it before.

That in itself should tell you everything you need to know.

Jobs like this are nowhere near as simple as they seem. The potential for this going badly wrong are very high indeed. It won't be plug' n play, nor anywhere near it. Even if you could get it to work (and it's a big if), you've still got to find someone who will insure it.

My advice would be to forget it, and enjoy your car for what it is. If you want more performance, buy a different car; it'll almost certainly work out cheaper in the end.

 

[DaveMcT]

It "can" be done all electronic modules have to be reset to factory (virginised). They will then electronically lock together at the first power on. HOWEVER will your computers work with the Sporting computer? There is only one way to find out. If it does work, you then have an insurance issue as your car will be heavily modified.

It would make more sense to buy a 100HP Panda. There was one recently going for £1000 because the front bumper and rads were damaged. But who knows what else was wrong with it. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2009-Fia...093684?hash=item2f5508a874:g:ZkgAAOSw0BJgOOZ5

Heres another. Check out the damaged sill which will need professional welding.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-panda-100-hp/265088351533?hash=item3db87f3d2d:g:i8cAAOSwVQhgTlvT

 

[koalar]

cam sensor ??? with the original ECU ?

8v is very good low down the rev range

 

[zisisv]

Thank you all for your responses. I actually live in Greece. Insurance system is quite "old school" here (as long as displacement remains the same, the car can be insured).
At first I thought that it would be a fairly easy swap because I have seen some 1.2 to 100hp/t-jet swaps, which are more difficult for sure (electric throttle etc). Also mine's and Punto ecu look exactly the same, same pins same plugs. I know this means nothing but I hoped that after virginizing they would work together and as far as I know punto/panda electrical systems are quite similar (maybe I am wrong on that).
I love this car for my everyday use but I always thought that this 20hp gain would make it even more perfect for suburban transportations. I would prefer to keep my car because I am the first owner and I am sure about its body condition. So replacing it with 100hp/other car is out of discussion for now.
If you have any 100hp/t-jet/anything else swap into account I would be grateful to know how is it coupled with bcm.

 

[DaveMcT]

You will need the engine ECU and its wiring loom. If it all plugs into your car, get the engine ECU "virginised". It should fit but do be sure to have all of the ancillaries brackets and mounts.

If it doesn't work, you can put the 1.2 engine back into the car and all you've done is wasted a load of time spinning spanners.

 

[zisisv]

You will need the engine ECU and its wiring loom. If it all plugs into your car, get the engine ECU "virginised". It should fit but do be sure to have all of the ancillaries brackets and mounts.

If it doesn't work, you can put the 1.2 engine back into the car and all you've done is wasted a load of time spinning spanners.

Is "virginization" going to affect bcm or ecu only?

 

[A3jeroen]

ECU gets it's immobiliser code from the BC on first startup. So Punto ECUneeds to be virgin.

gr J

 

[koalar]

the original engine will not have a CAM sensor

to use the new ECU some new wiring will need to be spliced in

I doubt it will be the only sensor that needs changing.

Not difficult if you can read a circuit diagrams and have the skill. However you might be blazing new ground

 

[A3jeroen]

As long as the Punto ECU can coomunicate with the Panda BC, You could swap over the whole lump.
But keep in mind that the 100Hp wheels can not turn in as far because of the 6 sp gearbox.

gr J

 

[DaveMcT]

As long as the Punto ECU can coomunicate with the Panda BC, You could swap over the whole lump.
But keep in mind that the 100Hp wheels can not turn in as far because of the 6 sp gearbox.

gr J

100HP has the same steering rack as any other Panda 169 but uses 10mm thick nylon spacers on the ends to limit lock to lock. If the LHS wheel rubs it will fail an MOT (annual safety) test, but it's easy enough to fit the spacers. You have to remove the rack gaiters and unscrew the inner track rod arms.

 

[A3jeroen]

:yeahthat:

gr J

 

[chris3234]

Thank you all for your responses. I actually live in Greece. Insurance system is quite "old school" here (as long as displacement remains the same, the car can be insured).
At first I thought that it would be a fairly easy swap because I have seen some 1.2 to 100hp/t-jet swaps, which are more difficult for sure (electric throttle etc). Also mine's and Punto ecu look exactly the same, same pins same plugs. I know this means nothing but I hoped that after virginizing they would work together and as far as I know punto/panda electrical systems are quite similar (maybe I am wrong on that).
I love this car for my everyday use but I always thought that this 20hp gain would make it even more perfect for suburban transportations. I would prefer to keep my car because I am the first owner and I am sure about its body condition. So replacing it with 100hp/other car is out of discussion for now.
If you have any 100hp/t-jet/anything else swap into account I would be grateful to know how is it coupled with bcm.

Your lucky then

Here in the UK even changing the wheels from original is a modification e.g fitting lounge alloys to alloys from a different trim package car
Some even class stickers in the windows as a modification

 

[DaveMcT]

Check out Pandamime on You Tube. He swapped a T-jet engine into his 100HP. He had the complete donor car so was able to use any parts he needed to get the job done. Different engine but similar electronic issues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwLZInoTXy8