General 1.1 single point injection

[dav3y]

my 55S is litterally sucking oil into the intake. i removed the filter housing and inside the throttle body is a oily residue throughout. the breather pipe has always got oil in it though not alot, regardless how often i clean it. the little right angle that the breather ataches to has a smaller pipe that dissapears down to the manifold, its some sort of sort of vacuum and it is litterally sucking oil from the engine!!

i held a bit of cloth about 2cm from the pipe and it was like hoovering the curtain! (obviously with the engine on) i dont know if its meant to be this strong, and how do i stop oil being hoovered out my engine?! im looking into an oil catch tank but seriously there must be another solution for now?

 

[fingers99]

Run the engine with the big breather pump disconnected and it will be "fuming".

This isn't oil being sucked out of the engine -- at least, not in any conventional sense -- but oil being blown out of the engine by excess crankcase presssure.

It'll happen more if the oil has been overfilled (check oil level after engine has been switched off for 5 minutes), but is generally a sign of worn rings. Compression test (dry and wet) will confirm.

There is no "real" solution except an engine rebuild -- or a fresh engine.

 

[dav3y]

i keep the oil half way exactly between minimum and maximum (ocd obsessed) so there is no good reason why this is happening, but i swear to god this pipe is litterally sucking the oil out. how would a rebuild stop it? the only thing i can come up with is re-route this little vacuum pipe and fit it somewhere the other side of the filter housing.

is it not completely stupid to have the breather AFTER the filter? the fiesta i used to have was before the filter, as is my dad's C-MAX! meaning no oil in the wrong places

 

[fingers99]

It cannot be sucking the oil out.

Compression test will reveal knackered rings.

Simple as that.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

you can always fit a oil breather pipe filter and detach the breather from the induction system.

I am still inclined to agree with Fingers on this one have you tried running it with the breather pipe disconnected ? do you still get oil vapor/fumes from the breather pipe.

the bottom of the breather pipe sits well above the level of the oil so there is no way it should be able to 'Suck' the oil out of the engine unless the engine oil is seriously over filled. so that leaves the only option of combustion gasses being forced down into the crank case and pushing the oil out.

 

[dav3y]

Compression test reveals that its fine thankyou. I cleaned the plugs the other day and the two very inner plugs were filthy black which is the oil oming out this bloody breather, as logic tought me it would be the two inner clyinders oil will go through being it single point injection.

I am not just saying this, i have proved it. Running with the breather off i smell oil inside the car and it drove me mad. I have cleaned the breather and throttle body time and time again, there is plenty of oil though nowhere near maximum so theres not "too much" at all.

Look, this right angle pipe on the filter box is the problem. You dont have a breather pipe throwing fumes into an intake AFTER the filter do you? hence my problem, so thats a fail for fiat. Not just that as the problem but a cm from the breather that has all be it a small amount of oil in it, you then have a vacuum pipe that SUCKS the oil in thats sat in the breather. Come on, are you seriously going to say it isnt sucking the oil up the pipe?

If my rings were a problem since the compression test then would i not be loosing a mass amount of oil? I am loosing no oil at all, just all the oil residue within the intake shows me that there is something needs to be done!

 

[bredsticz]

All breathers go after the filter, an induction isnt enough to suck oil all the way out of the engine block.
The only way it gets into the breather tube is from excess pressure in the engine itself. I've had the same problem myself, turned out to be worn piston rings.

Bet you haven't bothered doing a compression test and just not liking what your being told

 

[dav3y]

All breathers go after the filter

Ford are before.

 

[fingers99]

I do think we have a serious case of denial here.

What were the compression results, dry and wet?

 

[dav3y]

Bet you haven't bothered doing a compression test and just not liking what your being told

That will only explain why my water is dissapearing, my oil is going nowhere at all! Like i said, there is residue in the throttle body and there is always a drip of oil in the breather, so i dont know why your saying my oil rings are doing that?

 

[fingers99]

The only way oil can get into the TB (unless the fairies have been putting it there) is via the crankcase.

A compression test wouldn't necessarily show why your water has been disappearing (if, indeed, it has).

Dry and wet compression test, and post the results.

 

[bredsticz]

Its not at all. water dissapears from head gasket or cracked cylinder, a compression test shows this yes. BUT it also shows lost compression through the rings which is into your oil. It may only be a slight bit you are losing so it's not noticeable. That or the oil in the breather isnt excessive, you will get a bit in there from a healthy engine.

If the oil rings are worn you get slight combustion going into your engine block. This builds up pressure, obviously. The breather pipe is designed to release this pressure from the engine to stop it blowing itself to pieces. So that's the only route the oil can take when pressurised

 

[bredsticz]

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system[/ame] may explain how it works more and why oil comes out of it. With that, if there is as you say, excessive oil then it is caused by too much pressure in the engine block - which can only be caused by combustion leakage (through worn piston rings, which are only there to stop this happening and to keep the oil seperate from the combustion chamber) that or an oil blockage somewhere could possibly cause it

 

[dav3y]

Sorry but im getting f**king agitated now. I am trying to clearly explain what is happening, its not like i said "oil is in my engine how did it get there?" i have tracked it!

Dissasembled obviously.

Small bit of oil sits in breather:

Breather sits on right angle pipe:

Where the small VACUUM pipe attaches to: (though it might not be sucking it isnt helping)

Oil in my air box (which im litterally cleaning just now):

So how has it gone in my airbox if not through the breather?

 

[bredsticz]

Yes it is through the breather but that isn't excessive. That's normal. Picture 3 looks blocked though :S

You were making out as though there was alot more oil in it than should be. Best thing to do if you don't want oil going into it would be seal the hole on the air filter. Stick a mini filter onto the breather pipe where it connects to the air box instead

 

[dav3y]

picture three i know the thing is broken so i use cableties to keep the pipe on, and is abit blocked but i just cleaned it lol. i tried a few weeks with the breather disconnected and it smelt of oil horribly in the car

i also heard it fails mot if the mot man smells it?

im not denying my rings are not the problem i just dont see exactly how that can do this, though it explains why my water is dissapearing at a rate of a litre a month. i had my dads friend compression test it about 2 months back, cant remember anything other then him saying it was "actually not bad at all".

im right in believing that this (small) amount of oil i suppose mist is the word? is going into the two inner cylinders which is why only them spark plugs were black, right?

 

[fingers99]

Stick a mini filter onto the breather pipe where it connects to the air box instead

Will work, but this should be an automatic MOT fail.

 

[bredsticz]

Didn't think it was actually a fail :S
That won't cause oil onto the plugs. Which bit of the plugs were black? If its the bit inside the engine it won't be from oil.
As for losing water that's something completely different. Either leak or head gasket

 

[dav3y]

The entire plug thats threaded and inside the engine, the earth and the electrode were filthy. There is abit of oil around where the plugs sit but that was after i changed the rocker cover seal and didnt wash it down (since dad washed it the first time it ran weird for weeks lol)

The leak i cant pinpoint, as i said to dad theres no puddles where i park he said when is running it would be steam obviously so i wouldnt be able to see it, but again if the headgasket had gone wouldnt i have oil in the water and vise versa?

Heres my TB which by anyones standard is filthy: (after i semi cleaned it)

 

[dav3y]

I just thought, your right along the lines of the plugs of course its over fueling the two inner cylinders (cant see why not the other two) because the air sensor thing is covered in oil :chin:

Or have i gone way off here? lol