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Old 22-02-2011   #136
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Deckchair5: Maybe there is problem in pins of connector, but more possibly the problem is in main ECU procesor in BGA socket. This procesor is on opposite side and you need unsolder these connectro pins to get the PCB out. Like this:



And processor and eeprom in detail:


Socket BGA means thehe is not classic pins, but "tin balls" to connect processor to the PCB. It is usual that there can be cracks.
See "bga reballing" on youtube or google.
Sorry my poor english.
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Old 22-02-2011   #137
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Quote Originally Posted by hanzs View Post
Shadeyman: I think, that focus on security failure is the right decision.
There is a procedure in car manual, to set security code in engine ECU without working CAN-line. In properly working car, body computer send code to engine ECU and key/padlock light goes off. When there is a problem on CAN-line, no code send. But with this procedure you can set the code manualy - it is about counting blinking key/padlock light and pressing gas pedal. I think you should try it.
Could you give me a step by step procedure to set security code in engine ECU and I'll give it a try, sounds like a good idea.
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Old 22-02-2011   #138
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Quote Originally Posted by Shadeyman View Post
Car is 2004.
I believe the emergency start procedure was abandoned on later cars. The procedure is described in my 2003 handbook but it's not in the 2006 one so it may work on a 2004 model if he has or wants to get the 5 digit code.

If the car started with the code, it would confirm that the problem was the immobiliser so you could ignore everything else.

Quote Originally Posted by Shadeyman View Post
"pin 29 of connector A (Blue?)"
Item 4 in the diagram, "IN/OUT recovery serial for NCM in case of break in C-CAN line". Its the only IN/OUT serial line I've seen so may be your right, this one is Serial Line W and the rest are Serial Line K.

I'll check that for continuity tomorrow.
I think there may be a labelling mistake on the wiring diagram below (pin A29 is labelled as B29 which according to the connectors list you posted yesterday is for hazard warning), but it looks as though pin A29 of the BC goes to pin A11 of the 1.6 engine management ECU (M10) and should be a Grey/White (HB) wire.
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Old 22-02-2011   #139
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Quote Originally Posted by Shadeyman View Post
Could you give me a step by step procedure to set security code in engine ECU and I'll give it a try, sounds like a good idea.
Decks posted the emergency start procedure a while ago. It worked on my car but took me 3 or 4 attempts to do the procedure correctly.
.

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Last edited by Davren; 22-02-2011 at 11:47.
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Old 22-02-2011   #140
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

you could give the ECU board a complete reflow....easy to do takes about 25 mins. been doing it to PS3's to reliably fix the YLOD for ages....have fixed many electrical items with this method. it would also negate any and all dry joints in the ECU assembly.
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Old 22-02-2011   #141
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

After spending most of yesterday and this morning on the car I'm 99% sure I've found the fault.

Completely stripped and cleaned the body computer and its connections.

Then myself and a friend traced the feed from the engine ECU to the body computer.

After a few tests we found there was no signal from the ECU to the body computer.

I'm 99% sure hanzs is right and the engine ECU is faulty. I've spoken to Shane and I've arranged for a friend of mine to repair the ECU for him. He's just picked it up and took it apart to allow me to take the photo attached below.

Theres no way I have the tools or the expertise to repair anything so tiny, better left to the proffessionals.
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 22-02-2011 at 15:38.
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Old 22-02-2011   #142
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

worth noting, look at picture 4, that is classic signs of a repair job, done by a not-so professional

the residue you can see is the rosin left over from the flux used in slodering...it is good practice to clean up a board after such a repair with IPA solvant...this hasn't been done, but it does show us that someones had a poke before, or FIAT's soldering is v poor...id have a guess that one of the two IC's that have the associated rosin on have been re-soldered badley...causing the car equivalent of demensia....
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Old 22-02-2011   #143
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Thats exactly what my friend Mark said so perhaps your right it has been badly repaired before. He's now taken it to try and get it sorted.

Edit
Is it possible to purchase a second hand engine ECU and install it, will it work or would it need proxi-alignment or something doing to it?
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 22-02-2011 at 16:12.
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Old 22-02-2011   #144
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Shadeyman: Second hand engine ECU must be re-flash to be "virgin" again. Proxy-alignment is possible for other ECUs, like ABS, Airbags etc.
But not for engine ECU because of vehicle theft.
Information about code are flashed to the eeprom, chip named "95160".
It is possible unsolder this chip and flash new "virgin" or immo-off data (can be found on internet).
Or can be flashed via OBDII socket with special cable+software like this: http://www.abritus72.com/commanderfiat20.html
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Old 22-02-2011   #145
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Thanks hanzs.

I thought I may be able to attempt a repair myself but thats a bit beyond me. I get bored during the day sometimes but not that bored.

I'l leave it to my mate to see if he can get the ECU up and running again.
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Old 23-02-2011   #146
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Mate just brought the ECU back in his dinner break, said it was f**c**d but he did manage to get a CAN signal again so the car should start. He's not sure how long the repair will last.

Reinstalled it and the car starts but its running a little rough. Has a missfire on cylinder 4. Thats probabely the reason the wires connected to the coil have been pierced with insulation piercing probes.

New or reconditioned ECU and a new coil would see this car in perfect shape.
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 23-02-2011 at 16:06.
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Old 28-02-2011   #147
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

Replaced the coil this morning and gave the car a quick "Once over" before I put her back together. She runs quite well now considering her recent ECU problems. The video doesn't do her credit.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm189/Shadeyman67/?action=view&current=WP_000114.mp4
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 28-02-2011 at 23:25.
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Old 28-02-2011   #148
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

At least it's running and it's alive. Well done you

Sounds like one cylinder is down on power or struggling. Is that with the new coil? Sometimes the recording makes it sound much worse than it is
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Old 01-03-2011   #149
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

The car looks good!
So let's hope, that the repair of ecu will ok for a long time!
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Old 01-03-2011   #150
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Re: Rude Fiat Dealer

The video does make the engine sound a lot worse than it is. With the covers back on and the bonnet down you cant tell she's running. Very quite compared to my oil burner.

I took her out for a quick spin once I'd got her put back together. Nice smooth car but lacks the grunt of my JTD.

Quote Originally Posted by hanzs View Post
The car looks good!
So let's hope, that the repair of ecu will ok for a long time!
Fingers crossed. However, Shane is planning to sell her(I think).
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 01-03-2011 at 00:07.
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