Due to major problems trying to get my JTD115 in a fit state to be re-mapped I could do with some help (see group buys- west midlands re-mapp, I have just updated it).

Have many of you got a rolling road power/torque print out for a std 115JTD ? If so could u please post your copy on here? Also has anyone else had problems with a fallling off of power at around 3000 rpm, instead of 4000 rpm ? T.B.H. I would think its hard to tell unless u go and drive another 115JTD. Thx David

Yup

Have a squint through a few threads, I've posted 'em up before

Sounds like a dead turbo. If you have already had the map then perhaps they have cut the boost too early.

davidthelodge said:

Due to major problems trying to get my JTD115 in a fit state to be re-mapped I could do with some help (see group buys- west midlands re-mapp, I have just updated it).

Have many of you got a rolling road power/torque print out for a std 115JTD ? If so could u please post your copy on here? Also has anyone else had problems with a fallling off of power at around 3000 rpm, instead of 4000 rpm ? T.B.H. I would think its hard to tell unless u go and drive another 115JTD. Thx David

Click to expand...

Just read the other thread and I have to say you'd be quite crazy to go ahead with a custom map. A generic map is lot lot safer and you wont need a RR to tell you the car goes like a god-damn rocket either.

Torque comes in very hard after 1500rpm and onward. Theoretical max BHP is at 4000 rmp but I only really notice a fall off at 4500rpm. Even tend to let it ride the red a little if I've got a lot of stuff to get past in not much time :devil:

In case you haven't studied the many mapping threads then mine has an AT generic map and I've NEVER once seen an engine warning light. Never once have I found myself short of power either except when a small split very gradually grew in the overboost tubing (directly under the turbo actuator to be precise) and also up by the VGT valve (by the battery on mine)

Thx 4 your replies - Hi ABZSTILO - I can't find a posting from u using the search function showing a rolling road power graph ?

Hi Argo - like u at 1st I was not interested in putting my car on a rolling road, but I am very glad I did, because if not it would have been re-mapped and then I think I would have had even more problems now. The big advantage of doing a pre-mapping rolling road run it that it shows up any problems with the cars standard bhp/torque outputs.

Driving my car today it feels fine, but over about 3000 rpm it turns out its not producing the power it should be in standard tune. During normal driving I dont very often rev it over 3000 rpm anyway. VGT valve = variable geometry turbo overboost valve I assume. My turbo pipes have been vacum tested twice and no leaks have shown up, between 1500-3000 rpm there is a strong serge of torque/power and its clear from this the turbo is spinning, though I dont know at what rpm the turbo is suposed to produce its maximum boost/bar. I suspect I may never cure the underlining problem, as to do so would cost too much money. So for now I will live with a none re-mapped car and live with what power I have.

This is a print out from Red Dot, standard car (115 JTD) with K&N panel filter prior to remap:

I had mine done same day as Abz,
here are my before and after maps, if it works, ignore the registration mine is an 02 plate and had nearly 100k miles when remapped.

Before




After

davidthelodge said:

Hi Argo - like u at 1st I was not interested in putting my car on a rolling road, but I am very glad I did, because if not it would have been re-mapped and then I think I would have had even more problems now. The big advantage of doing a pre-mapping rolling road run it that it shows up any problems with the cars standard bhp/torque outputs.

Click to expand...

Dave, whilst I agree it's stupid to remap any car when you know it's not running right, I'm not sure I totally agree with your general logic on this.

Here's how I had to resolve the issue on my JTD mentioned in my last post

Don't give up on it yet - as everything can be sorted - and may turn out less serious than you might assume

Thx Argo, but I can't open your link

If this attachment works here a graph of the power output on mine

I will try again

Sorry about that - now fixed.

That graph looks pretty dire

How about going through every test/check you've so far done.

In all honestly I reckon the garage I took mine to (in that thread) would easily find the issue.

that dies pretty violently around 3,000 revs have you looked into vnt mechanism for freedom of movement.if the vanes are stuck you may be o.k low down but not higher up.you look short of something air,boost,fuel?

VNT actuator reset,
map sensor tested OK, then replaced - no change
boost control valve replaced
EGR cleaned
miti-vac tested - actuator working, but vacume not being read by pressure sensor. Kinked vac pipe found to the turbo electro valve, pipe re-routed and re-checked, actuation of turbo waste gate now all OK

Back on R/road and car still down on power @ 3000+ rpm :bang:

davidthelodge said:

Back on R/road and car still down on power @ 3000+ rpm :bang:

Click to expand...

Quite honestly, you're just wasting your time/money on RR tests.

If it's that bad then a competent garage using Examiner should get a good clue as to what the problem is. The idea is you go for a drive whilst the technician sits next to you with Examiner all connected up. That's assuming of course it can't detect a problem when the car is stationary.

I presume you're using competent Fiat/Alfa garage for these tests

Research garage the Fiat main agent in Nuneaton conected Examiner after the 6 hours of trying to find & correct the fault, on road test the figures on the their lap top shows everything is OK, but of course its not.

This afternoon I have been to a local turbo specialist and they said they are 80% certain the "VNT" (variable something turbo ?) is faulty and the inner workings are not moving freely, they also said the actuator rod should never be adjusted or reset, as its factory set at Garret. They want £180 to recondition the unit, not inc removal & refitting. They again checked the pipe work with a pressure gauge and could find no leaks. So everything is pointing towards the turbo. Though Fiats service mgr says the miti-vac pressure test is not 100% and at between 3000-4000 revs out on the road or on a rolloing road it is possible a pipe leaks with the increased pressure under load.

davidthelodge said:

Research garage the Fiat main agent in Nuneaton conected Examiner after the 6 hours of trying to find & correct the fault, on road test the figures on the their lap top shows everything is OK, but of course its not.

Click to expand...

I find that very difficult to believe so I hope they know how to use it properly :chin:

There should be a mismatch between predicted boost and actual boost (as measured by MAP sensor) compared to the VGT valve & MAF readings.

My problem was far less severe and yet Examiner picked up a problem with predicted boost (remember, from reading the thread, I was convinced my turbo was duff too before the garage found the cause).

It's worth considering that the sensors themselves could be suspect - especially the MAP sensor (on manifold). Have they checked that?

EDIT: Just noticed you already have.

Still; can't see any mention of checking MAF sensor ?

a few people have had results using innotec turbo cleaner, have a search for it, if its easy to get your hand too you can manually operate linkage and gradually get more movement(engine off)?.it should operate like this.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc2awh0O0Bc&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Garrett VNT turbocharger cutaway animation[/nomedia]
not sure if you'd have to disconnect vac pipe to save from damage to actuator.
you could ask the turbo guy if that sounds ok?
id hate to see you pay for turbo repair and still have same problem
the vnt mechanism % opening and desired /actual boost pressure should give them a better than 80% guess?

Thx 4 your posts folks. No mention on the bill from the Fiat dealer of checking the MAF, but I would have thourght an "Examiner" diagnosis session would have shown up if that was faulty. What I dont know is if they exceeded 3000 rpm on the 7 mile test run they did with Examiner connected, I do hope so as I told them that was where the lack of power problem is.

The turbo specialist says you cant spray any clearer into the exhaust part of the turbo which will reach where the vanes are, so he cant see how it can work. He said it would be a total wastle of money, now I am confused. Next step is either this Innotec cleaner or turbo removal, strip down & clean, the latter I cant really justify/afford at the moment. People have used this innotec cleaner and report good results, but they dont usually have the same porblem as I have. Thx David

MAF is easy to check yourself (between turbo and air box - plenty of threads on this if you need help). Just disconnect it and see if car runs any better.

Been looking at your RR graph (rotated it upright for you) and the torque figure is actually not that far out so something really odd is going on :chin:

Have you checked really basic stuff like blocked air-filter (I'd also check whole induction for any blockages)

You could try some basic performance timings like:

• 40-80 in 3rd (this takes you in the red just a little)
• 40-80 in 4th.

Start from a static 40mph i.e. NOT already accelerating and try to do a run in both directions to discount the road not actually being level.

Post up the results and we'll see how they compare.

found a pdf file showing detailed how to for the innotec cleaner.
http://cid-9736936af2460b41.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/Turbo Clean.pdf

the more threads i read about it though most are suffering overboost in high rev range.
have u tried a strong injector cleaner and new fuel filter?
has anyone close to you got access to fiatecuscan or similar so we could see logs like this.
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/atta...-for-147-1-9-jtd-8v-graph-data-fes-3-9-10.xls