Hi Guys,

Im sorry this is my First post, I know Forum ettiquate but Im desperate lads and need some proper knowledge here.

Im a Honda man and know those cars like the back of my hand but offered to change the water pump and timing belt on my friends Punto this weekend.

The cars a 2000 Plate, 8v Single cam.

I changed the water pump and timing belt on Saturday morning but it now will not start for love or money. It sounds like its trying to catch but just wont.

Ive ripped it all apart and cant seem to find anything wrong with the bloomin thing. It wont start on leads, niether will it with a good bump. Its got Fuel (wet plugs after cranking), Its got spark, I checked and re-checked the Timing marks more times than I care to think about and they seem to be perfectly aligned both on the crank and cam pulleys :

I used these images and a haynes manual to check this :



. I dont have a compression tester so the only way I could try to check compression was to crank it by hand with the plugs in...That was much harder than with plugs out (almost impossible) so I reckon its farily well sealed. Ive checked all connections and am supicious that the TDC sensor if faulty but dont know how to check it, so as you can see ive fast run out of checks to do.

The engine cranks over fine, doenst sound ceased and is non interference so hasnt had any P2V contact. There's a fair amount of soot expelled out of the exhaust when i finish trying to crank it and the plugs got very dirty after the same thing.


Can anyone help ?

I'd take another look at the timing, I was told a tip by a friend who said take out 1st piston spark plug, put a screwdriver or something of that effect in the hole very gently and crank the engine manually untill it's at it's top point. The the camshaft is easier to align, are you lining it with the arrow or the white line on the camshaft? Also if you do try that method be carefull not to score the piston with whatever you use! Took me a few attempts with mine to get it but I had no marking on the crankshaft sprocket.

I actually read the post where he advised you to do that so have tried to check both #1 and #4 pistons are at the same point using this method,

As for the cam marks, her engine has a fairly clear notch out of the gear edge which I have aligned with the notch out of the cyl head. It seems pretty obvious, heres a picture I took of the cam and crank sesnors with the timing marks Ive used highlighted :





Also I had to re-fit the aux pulley as I got its alignment wrong first time (didnt realise about the nipple). You can see where by the blue circle. Its now fitted correctly.



Thanks for trying to help.

I'm pretty sure my cambelt mark is higher up than that! Should be 10 o'clock roughly. As for the crankshaft I noticed if you put the alternator pulley back on, that has a little triangle notch missing and that points directly 12 o'clock When aligned. Otherwise could be the TDC sensor although I have no idea how to test it!
Also may have been mentioned when I was having problems actually but it was a friends dad, who i bought one of my cars from that said that method aswell! But good luck anyways!

Bottom pulley should point at the web not the top. Check it against the marks in the bellhousing.

Cheers

SPD

So its 1 tooth out on the crank then ?

The pointer should be where the blue line is in the image below :



Thanks for the help guys.

Can anyone confirm if the above image is correct to hel me put this one to bed please lads ?

Any other ideas ?

Ive been doing a bit of reading and searching and have read about Timing marks on the bellhousing and a lock for the cam.

Can anyone guide me to these marks so I can check them also. Images woule really help.

it looks like how you done it originally is correct to me.

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/19733-photos-timing-marks-8v-f-i-r-e-engines.html

I agree Beau but Im going back on Weds to use the bellhousing method and if necessary ill remove the rocker cover to make absolutely sure,

Thanks for your help guys...any more input will be appreciated and il try to document my fix to help others.

I think there are further troubles ahead.

These are quite easy wee engines and it should run even being a tooth or two out.

If you were 180 degrees out the spark would spit back through the TB.

Cheers

SPD

I have had a little throttle body action already, is it possible that I could have the crank mark 180 deg out. Im hoping using the Flywheel mark will eliminate any error with the crank sprocket.

Im going to try this on wednesday by locking it at 0' degrees on the flywheel and double checking the cam. And a little prayer.

I should stick to honda's

Eximious said:

I have had a little throttle body action already, is it possible that I could have the crank mark 180 deg out. Im hoping using the Flywheel mark will eliminate any error with the crank sprocket.

Im going to try this on wednesday by locking it at 0' degrees on the flywheel and double checking the cam. And a little prayer.

I should stick to honda's

Click to expand...

Did you move the cam or crank when they were apart?

Cheers

SPD

yes I did

It's the cam that needs moving if it's 180 degrees out, not the crank

When the pistons are set at half stroke all four will be at the same height.
But there are two points where this happens. - upstroke and downstroke.
I believe #1 should be on upstroke.

This will happen only when the crank markers line up. So if unsure about the markers, take out the plugs and turn the engine forwards so #1 rises towards 1/2 stroke. #2 will be falling (and #4 same as #1). When both are the same height check the markers.

Set the cam to the marker and fit the belt, tension and recheck everything is aligned. Turn the engine a few times by hand and recheck the settings - piston heights and markers.

That is for the 16v is it not whitesei? 8v needs the number 1 piston at top of its stroke

Thanks for the advice guys,

Im now pretty sure that you are right r.e 180Deg out.

Im going tomorrow morning to have a look so ill update on my findings.

Well I give up lads,

Ive just got home from having another try.

I used the Bellhousing markers to align the crank, noticed that the cam sprocket was 180 deg out once Id done this. Thought Id solved it but once i got it back together it still wouldnt start.

I cranked It over about 3 times by hand to check my alignment and every time I saw the marker on the flywheel line up, the cam sprocket was perfect also. The Belt I was using had 2 lines marked on it also which you can align with the cars markers, I reckon the belt is not right because every time I completed 1 rotation of the system I noticed that the belt "shifted" and the line was further and further advanced on every rotation. It wasnt skipping teeth or loosening and I dont have enough experience to tell if thats not right or if thats natural.

So to conclude..its still sounds as if its wanting to fire out the intake. Ive tried revolving the crank indepentantly of the cam and vice versa to no avail. I give up...best leave these Fiats to you lads.

Thanks to all that helped me guys. I really appreciate it but I feel like an impostor who has failed. Gutted!!

You sure you've got the right cambelt for the car?

My memory is a bit hazy here, but I was under the impression the 8v Punto's came with two different belts, and it could be the belt you have is the incorrect one.