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Technical Panda 1.3 multijet timing chain.....

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Technical Panda 1.3 multijet timing chain.....

I've had both good and bad outcomes.
Strangely, the best outcome required 8 rockers and hydraulic lifters, but had no other damage and engine did another 10k with me before car got sold on.
Worst one only had 1 cracked rocker and looked like it should be an easy fix. It wasn't!
The chain had worn a groove in the block where it had probably been flapping for ages. Put it all back together and... ran OK but oil light would flicker when idling once warm. Turns out it had been doing that before the chain went, and the owner had not noticed the chain rattle as "he only wore his hearing aids at home, not when driving". Eventually sold him a better engine and recycled the chain and guide kit onto that one.

So, the sacrificial rockers work in theory, and sometimes in practice, and a KNOWN good engine is probably worth attempting. Chain and tensioner kits are under £100, although rockers and lifters can jack the cost up significantly.

I no longer bother with unknown ones - if I can't see it run up to temperature and hear it both cold and hot then I'll just wait for the next one to come up. There's plenty about.

PS. If you're swapping engines, don't forget the injectors need the correct munge values entered in the ECU. Or keep the originals (in their correct positions) Otherwise it will run like a 3-legged dog .
 
I had a wee Corsa c van as a work horse for the family with the same engine. Had it for over eight years when some plonker wrote it off. Over 150000 on the clock and was still going strong. They like clean oil. I changed mine every six months regardless of mileage. It ticked over like a clock.

One thing if you find out it’s worth repairing, don’t go for a cheap chain kit, go for OE. Best of luck.
 
irc said:
I've had both good and bad outcomes.
Strangely, the best outcome required 8 rockers and hydraulic lifters, but had no other damage and engine did another 10k with me before car got sold on.
Worst one only had 1 cracked rocker and looked like it should be an easy fix. It wasn't!
The chain had worn a groove in the block where it had probably been flapping for ages. Put it all back together and... ran OK but oil light would flicker when idling once warm. Turns out it had been doing that before the chain went, and the owner had not noticed the chain rattle as "he only wore his hearing aids at home, not when driving". Eventually sold him a better engine and recycled the chain and guide kit onto that one.

So, the sacrificial rockers work in theory, and sometimes in practice, and a KNOWN good engine is probably worth attempting. Chain and tensioner kits are under £100, although rockers and lifters can jack the cost up significantly.

I no longer bother with unknown ones - if I can't see it run up to temperature and hear it both cold and hot then I'll just wait for the next one to come up. There's plenty about.

PS. If you're swapping engines, don't forget the injectors need the correct munge values entered in the ECU. Or keep the originals (in their correct positions) Otherwise it will run like a 3-legged dog .
Click to expand...

Hi and thanks, this is the dilemma, it's a £500 pound car I got three years ago, cracker of an engine until yesterday obviously, I'm looking at chucking maybe £300 if it is just a new chain and rockers not to mention my precious time. If the recovery buffoons could get my car back to me I could at least start the diagnosis, thanks for your help, ps, I think the injectors are only coded on the euro 5 engine,my car/engine is euro 4 but I stand corrected
 
jimboy said:
I had a wee Corsa c van as a work horse for the family with the same engine. Had it for over eight years when some plonker wrote it off. Over 150000 on the clock and was still going strong. They like clean oil. I changed mine every six months regardless of mileage. It ticked over like a clock.

One thing if you find out it’s worth repairing, don’t go for a cheap chain kit, go for OE. Best of luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks jimboy, the dilemma is if it's cost effective or not, going for oe would scrap the idea, I agree with the oe route but it's just not worth keep dishing out on it, love it to bits though, never had to scrap a car and I don't want to start now
 
My 55 plate MJ definitely has coded injectors ( and definitely runs like a 3-legged dog if they get changed without updating the coding... guess how I know!)
 
irc said:
My 55 plate MJ definitely has coded injectors ( and definitely runs like a 3-legged dog if they get changed without updating the coding... guess how I know!)
Click to expand...

I stand corrected
 
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Popitinpete said:
it's a £500 pound car
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Unfortunately used car prices are somewhat silly just now, and a £500 car three years ago will likely cost you at least £1000-£1500 today, perhaps even more.

A Panda 1.3 mJet engine alone will likely cost you upwards of £800 from a breakers.

Any small £30 RFL car with a year's MOT that isn't an absolute shed will easily sell privately just now for £1000+.

If you can fix this for £500, I'd definitely recommend you do so (unless you're aware of another major issue with the car, such as dangerously corroded rear spring cups).
 
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Slightly off topic but just had my daily MOTd and talking to the owner, he tells me he is so very busy with MOTs. People are hanging on to their cars, the few secondhand that are for sale are for silly money as said on here.

My daily passed by the way(y)
 
jrkitching said:
Unfortunately used car prices are somewhat silly just now, and a £500 car three years ago will likely cost you at least £1000-£1500 today, perhaps even more.

A Panda 1.3 mJet engine alone will likely cost you upwards of £800 from a breakers.

Any small £30 RFL car with a year's MOT that isn't an absolute shed will easily sell privately just now for £1000+.

If you can fix this for £500, I'd definitely recommend you do so (unless you're aware of another major issue with the car, such as dangerously corroded rear spring cups).
Click to expand...

Hi, yes exactly what I found on auto trader either complete sheds for £500 or the decent cheap to run panda type stuff is as you say near to £1000. My car is due back "some time this evening" so I will take the cam inspection/timing lock cover off or the cam sensor off to see if the cams turn when I spin it over, if the cams are not turning I may well just leave it. I've maintained it meticulously, new front shock and two rear shocks, 2 x new front bottom arms, new brakes, took the rear axle off and had it powder coated then hammerite on the leading edge then waxoyled. I will see if the cam turns and make a call after that. Too risky to buy a MJ if no proof of chain being changed and I find the 1.2 panda a little flat so Ford fiesta it is lol
 
jimboy said:
Slightly off topic but just had my daily MOTd and talking to the owner, he tells me he is so very busy with MOTs. People are hanging on to their cars, the few secondhand that are for sale are for silly money as said on here.

My daily passed by the way(y)
Click to expand...

That's it jimbob, rub it in lol, to be fair mine would pass, it just doesn't drive to the mot station, cringe.
 
Popitinpete said:
Too risky to buy a MJ if no proof of chain being changed
Click to expand...

I'd agree; there've been quite a few reports here of chain failures on the 1.3 mJet. Problems with glow plugs, turbochargers, and clogged emissions control components also appear with depressing regularity.

Perhaps surprisingly, we almost never hear of a belt failure on the petrol engined 500's/Pandas - IMO the petrol versions are far better prospects for anyone looking to buy a used one.
 
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jrkitching said:
I'd agree; there've been quite a few reports here of chain failures on the 1.3 mJet. Problems with glow plugs, turbochargers, and clogged emissions control components also appear with depressing regularity.

Perhaps surprisingly, we almost never hear of a belt failure on the petrol engined 500's/Pandas - IMO the petrol versions are far better prospects for anyone looking to buy a used one.
Click to expand...

Hi yes it makes a little more sense in respect of known problems with either engine but a well sorted MJ is a really peppy grunty little engine and works superbly well with the pandas weight too. I've driven the 1.1 eco petrol plenty of times and found it polar opposites in terms of useable torque and low revs drivability but that obviously goes with the territory. Been a few years since I drove a 1.2.
the panda only worked for me when I drove it with a multijet,I wasn't interested in a petrol one, talking of petrol the 1.1 eco I drive is very dissapointing in the mpg stakes but as you say its not a ticking time bomb ready to leave you stranded at the most inconvenient time... So, If I cant see the camshaft spinning round tomorrow when cranking and it all points to a snapped chain I may well have to let it go or at least take the cambox off and see how many rockers it's got through, will take it from there.
It's not just the MJ that may or may not have a reputation, you talk to any Nissan technician and ask them how the 1.2 petrol range is performing...
 
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jrkitching said:
I'd agree; there've been quite a few reports here of chain failures on the 1.3 mJet. Problems with glow plugs, turbochargers, and clogged emissions control components also appear with depressing regularity.

Perhaps surprisingly, we almost never hear of a belt failure on the petrol engined 500's/Pandas - IMO the petrol versions are far better prospects for anyone looking to buy a used one.
Click to expand...

To be fair, a chain is supposed to last the life of the car so when they fail people tend to make a bit of noise about that. And of the many thousands of multijets out there it’s inevitable some will fail and plenty will be mistreated. They’ve not really put them in Fiat’s for quite a few years now so even the newest ones are getting on a bit.
Where as if your cam belt snaps people are more likely to be more accepting, either they take it to fiat if it’s still in warranty or stump up for the repairs if it’s still got enough value or scrap it. Must more less likely to make a fuss with a snapped cam belt.
 
jrkitching said:
If you can fix this for £500, I'd definitely recommend you do so (unless you're aware of another major issue with the car, such as dangerously corroded rear spring cups).
Click to expand...

A replacement 169 Panda axle is only £120, plus fitting of course, so unless the car has numerous problems, it's still worth repairing. The hub carrier retaining studs (which are excessively long) will be rusted to death but they can be replaced with 10.2 high tensile bolts. Everything else is pretty simple spanner work.

Ive just looked at eBay: Good used axles complete with hubs, brakes and handbrake cables are under £100.
 
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I've seen somewhere on Facebook in the past a garage down Hampshire way that will repair a snapped MJ chain for £350-400 all in.....which I thought was pretty good value......and would suggest its not a massive job either.
 
koalar said:
have we taken the bung out and checked if the cam socket is turning ?
Click to expand...

First thing I did, Easier stil, I took the cam position sensor out and checked that way, no movement on cam so chain has snapped. I've studied how to do the job today (I got the car back) , ie, drain coolant, drain oil, move fuel filter housing out of the way, move expansion bottle, support engine, take off o/s/f engine mount out if the way, take o/s/f wheel off, take front o/s/f section of splash guard off, take aux belt off, take water pump off, take crank pulley off, take inspection cover off and pin back tensioner, take off the catalyst and front section of exhaust, drop the sump, then take off timing cover,THEN, it's battery out (did this any way for safety) glow plug harness off, injector pipes off, high pressure fuel pump off, fuel rail off, brake pressure pump off, then tackle the injectors, three off which I could not budge last time they started blowing past the copper washers, only then can the cam box come off. I need to buy the chain kit @ £80.00, cam and crank locking tools @£40.00, guessing at 6 sacrificial rockers will be broke @£32.00 each so that's £190.00, new gaskets and other sundries @£50.00 and that's just to get to the point where I cross my fingers and try to start it and hope it hasn't damaged the valves. Its only got 6 months mot left on it and the list needed for that is 3 new tyres @£120.00 , 1 x n/s/f shock @ £30.00, 1 x rear shock absorber @ £20.00, all jobs I was going to do ironically next week to give me a fighting chance at mot time, I cannot track the front up correctly and it's ripped the two new tyres up on the front in less than 5k miles, I've been faffing around with the subframe alignment on the front and have come to the conclusion it's had a bang on the n/s/f at some point so have to adjust the subframe accordingly to compensate and it STILL pulls to the left, I've been trying to cure that for six months. It broke down 200 miles from home on Wednesday just after I had filled it with diesel and took me 12 hours to get home and took the car two days, more to that my in-laws are both battling a desease, one of them is in hospital this week having been rushed in so this morning as I lay on my back under the car in the cramped garage I would be doing the work in, contemplating how to get things off and how terrible the access is and weighing up what a struggle the job is and the financial aspect etc, really the MJ engine in reality, to me anyway, is no more use than a throwaway lighter I decided against going ahead with it. I've never scrapped a car before and it's a sad situation the one I'm scrapping is a panda multijet, it's a shame I did love the car at the start, but, in Cornwall last year it blew an injector seal, had to limp all the way home then this week it failed to proceed many miles from home again. My mind was made up when I couldn't even see how the catalyst is to come away from the manifold/turbo so I tried to take the heat shield of and all 3 10mm bolts just turned to dust and rounded off and resembled twiglits. That was it, that gave me the foresight of what lay ahead. So it's goodbye panda and I will probably never buy anything like it again. Sorry to ramble on but I'm right peeved off. Thanks for listening.
 
Popitinpete said:
First thing I did, Easier stil, I took the cam position sensor out and checked that way, no movement on cam so chain has snapped. I've studied how to do the job today (I got the car back) , ie, drain coolant, drain oil, move fuel filter housing out of the way, move expansion bottle, support engine, take off o/s/f engine mount out if the way, take o/s/f wheel off, take front o/s/f section of splash guard off, take aux belt off, take water pump off, take crank pulley off, take inspection cover off and pin back tensioner, take off the catalyst and front section of exhaust, drop the sump, then take off timing cover,THEN, it's battery out (did this any way for safety) glow plug harness off, injector pipes off, high pressure fuel pump off, fuel rail off, brake pressure pump off, then tackle the injectors, three off which I could not budge last time they started blowing past the copper washers, only then can the cam box come off. I need to buy the chain kit @ £80.00, cam and crank locking tools @£40.00, guessing at 6 sacrificial rockers will be broke @£32.00 each so that's £190.00, new gaskets and other sundries @£50.00 and that's just to get to the point where I cross my fingers and try to start it and hope it hasn't damaged the valves. Its only got 6 months mot left on it and the list needed for that is 3 new tyres @£120.00 , 1 x n/s/f shock @ £30.00, 1 x rear shock absorber @ £20.00, all jobs I was going to do ironically next week to give me a fighting chance at mot time, I cannot track the front up correctly and it's ripped the two new tyres up on the front in less than 5k miles, I've been faffing around with the subframe alignment on the front and have come to the conclusion it's had a bang on the n/s/f at some point so have to adjust the subframe accordingly to compensate and it STILL pulls to the left, I've been trying to cure that for six months. It broke down 200 miles from home on Wednesday just after I had filled it with diesel and took me 12 hours to get home and took the car two days, more to that my in-laws are both battling a desease, one of them is in hospital this week having been rushed in so this morning as I lay on my back under the car in the cramped garage I would be doing the work in, contemplating how to get things off and how terrible the access is and weighing up what a struggle the job is and the financial aspect etc, really the MJ engine in reality, to me anyway, is no more use than a throwaway lighter I decided against going ahead with it. I've never scrapped a car before and it's a sad situation the one I'm scrapping is a panda multijet, it's a shame I did love the car at the start, but, in Cornwall last year it blew an injector seal, had to limp all the way home then this week it failed to proceed many miles from home again. My mind was made up when I couldn't even see how the catalyst is to come away from the manifold/turbo so I tried to take the heat shield of and all 3 10mm bolts just turned to dust and rounded off and resembled twiglits. That was it, that gave me the foresight of what lay ahead. So it's goodbye panda and I will probably never buy anything like it again. Sorry to ramble on but I'm right peeved off. Thanks for listening.
Click to expand...

not had to repair a broken chain on a 1.3 multijet so could be wrong

buy aren't they normally done engine out

the Corsa engine was on the hoist last time I was at a garage. They told me it was easier to work with as the flywheel needs to come off to use the Crank locking tool.
 
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