Popitinpete
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Hi folks, pretty sure my timing chain snapped yesterday, does this engine have 'fracture/sacraficial' rocker arms? Thanks in advance
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Technical Panda 1.3 multijet timing chain.....
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Technical Panda 1.3 multijet timing chain.....
Short answer is no.
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The diesel does have sacrificial rockers. But the broken chain can cause expensive damage. Open it up and see what's going on.
Edit - Checking the cam is a given but you also need to see if the cam chain has chewed anything terminal when it flapped about.
Edit - Checking the cam is a given but you also need to see if the cam chain has chewed anything terminal when it flapped about.
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Hi, could I get a definitive on this please, thanks in advance, its worth doing if it has sacrificial rockers, not worth it if it hasn't, thanks
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If the chain's broken, you're opening it up anyway... It's only the valve cover to find out...
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Hi a couple of spanners in the works, before I go to the trouble of getting the timing cover off, dropping the sump etc to check that 100% it is the chain and it turns out it is the chain the valves and pistons will have collided, that's a given, being as I have to take the egr and hi pressure fuel pump off before I even get to my 3 seized In injectors to get the rocker box off I just need to know if the rockers are sacraficial or not, if they are sacrificial it's worth a go if they are not sacraficial it's not worth it and I will send the car for bake bean tins, thank for your help on this appreciate it
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Hi thanks, is that definite, if they don't fracture it's not even worth taking the timing cover off because the valves will be toast, if the rockers are designed to snap then it's worth a go, thanks for your help
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Hi, yes I will do that as a matter of course, BUT, if it hasn't got sacrificial rockers it just not worth it even if I take the timing cover off to confirm the chain has snapped, if it has not got 'fracture' rockers the valves WILL have hit the pistons so at the very least I have to take off the high pressure fuel pump, egr valve and try and get 3 seized injectors out that I could not previously budge to then take the head off to then have serious work on the valves/head etc, so my thinking is ; none fracture rockers = scrap it, fracture rockers = worth a go because the head won't have to come off fingers crossed, thanks
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To get the rocker box of its hi pressure fuel pump off, egr off then I have to tackle my 3 seized injectors I couldn't previously budge to find the rockers have broken or not. My way of asking first if they are sacrificial is a far easier way with the greatest of respects, if they are sacraficial it's worth a go if they are not, the major head work needed means its just not worth it, thank
Ah, seized injectors can be fun. Best of luck!
The 1.3 multijet DOES have sacrificial rockers, but while some people have gotten away with no apparent valve damage it is still the valve that takes the blow from the piston and transfers that force up to the rocker so it is still possible to end up with valve damage.
So yes the rockers are designed to break, but that still does not 100% guarantee the valves are not damaged
So yes the rockers are designed to break, but that still does not 100% guarantee the valves are not damaged
Yes a bit quick with my response, but in my defence damage is more likely than not.
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Hi that's the answer I was looking for, it is now worth firstly stripping the timing cover to confirm the chain has snapped then if it has then take the rocker box off and take a punt on the rockers if only a few are broke, with a compression test done also. Vehicles are my trade. It was just the question of if they do or don't have sacrificial rockers. I've done hundreds of snapped chains or belt jobs before but this was just to see if it was economical or not, taking the head off would have been a waste of time if the head needed new guides, valves, seats etc etc.
Strang thing is it just lost power, no metal on metal mechanical noise at all, engine just stopped with no noise,not the usual way pistons wreck valves. I will do some investigating starting with the chain first, thanks appreciate it.
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Don't get me started....... I've tried talking nice to them but they still won't budge
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The 16V 1.3 diesel has vertical valves so they will probably survive and the sacrificial rockers will save the rods and crank from damage. Compression tests will prove the matter.
Some folks have reported getting these engines running again after a chain break.
Most of the time, I'd advise that the likely cost involved compared to the value of the car makes repair an uneconomic proposition, but given what you've posted about your skill set, I'd say it's worth a punt.
Most of the time, I'd advise that the likely cost involved compared to the value of the car makes repair an uneconomic proposition, but given what you've posted about your skill set, I'd say it's worth a punt.
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The issue is a replacement car, to similar value will probably have its own set of problems.
A Fiat/Alfa 1.8/2.0 Twin Cam would almost certainly be toast (assuming rust hadn't already killed the car).
A Fiat/Alfa 1.8/2.0 Twin Cam would almost certainly be toast (assuming rust hadn't already killed the car).
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The 16V 1.3 diesel has vertical valves so they will probably survive and the sacrificial rockers will save the rods and crank from damage. Compression tests will prove the matter.
Hi thanks for the reply,correct yes the valves are vertical, sacraficial rockers won't work on angled valves, got to be vertical, so if the manufacturer installs fracture rockers that's a tell tale sign to say damage may only be to the rockers. A built in design to minimise damage, if it works its a good built in design. What I can't understand is it just lost power, no mechanical noise whatsoever, no clashing of metal, I can't scan the car yet because its still in a recovery pound but the expert recovery guy (after continuously trying to start it by just spinning the engine over) said " oh yea multijet, chain snapped 100%, I recover loads of them" plus hearing how they fail on here does point to it but I need to start from scratch with my diagnosis. Many thanks for the help
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Yea very proud of my skill set I am too, 40 years of knowledge and experience can't be sniffed at, too many young jokers about now who think they know everything, I usually stump them with one question lol, thank god for forums like this, I can talk directly to the experts and bypass the armchair experts, thanks for all of your time, pete
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Hi, yes this is the dilemma, (up until the sudden stop yesterday) its been a fantastic second car, 70mpg,£30 tax, the occasional shock absorber here and there but for what I paid for it you couldn't get a bus pass for 12 months for that, just had a look at the £500 used car market online and it's full of high mileage clios and the like with a couple of months mot left haha, no thanks
