Hello All!


The wife's 1.1l Panda's finally had a service - last one was Oct 2012 (yes, I know....). She'd neglected to tell me that the EML's on and it's running roughly. Kwik Fit (yes, I know...) diagnosed code P0202 - Injector on Cylinder #2 . Obviously, we don't want to spend a fortune if it's a (fairly) simple fix, so firstly, any suggestions? Googling the code seems to suggest one of three possibilities - the injector on cylinder #2 ; the associated wiring; the e.c.u. itself.


I originally was hoping it'd be something simple such as a blocked injector, which might 'unblock' itself with some posh petrol or engine additive, but that seems wishful thinking judging by the way the code gets 'flagged' up - namely the e.c.u. monitors the voltage at the injector, which should drop from 12V down towards 0V when it fires. If there's no drop, then the injector's faulty, or the wiring's open circuit, or the e.c.u.'s faulty.


Secondly, I've been looking round the site hoping to find an engine bay layout pic on a sticky but to no avail - anyone know of one?


Hope you guys 'n gals can help!

superste said:

Hello All!


The wife's 1.1l Panda's finally had a service - last one was Oct 2012 (yes, I know....). She'd neglected to tell me that the EML's on and it's running roughly. Kwik Fit (yes, I know...) diagnosed code P0202 - Injector on Cylinder #2 . Obviously, we don't want to spend a fortune if it's a (fairly) simple fix, so firstly, any suggestions? Googling the code seems to suggest one of three possibilities - the injector on cylinder #2 ; the associated wiring; the e.c.u. itself.


I originally was hoping it'd be something simple such as a blocked injector, which might 'unblock' itself with some posh petrol or engine additive, but that seems wishful thinking judging by the way the code gets 'flagged' up - namely the e.c.u. monitors the voltage at the injector, which should drop from 12V down towards 0V when it fires. If there's no drop, then the injector's faulty, or the wiring's open circuit, or the e.c.u.'s faulty.


Secondly, I've been looking round the site hoping to find an engine bay layout pic on a sticky but to no avail - anyone know of one?


Hope you guys 'n gals can help!

Click to expand...

Hi, and welcome,
basics are the same as the 8Valve punto.. LOTS of info in theGUIDE section..,
Charlie - Oxford

There has been a few reports of electronic niggles regarding some 1.1's.
Though I believe they are ignition/coil related and perhaps due to a short wire in part of the loom from the ECU.

You could start off by making sure the connectors to the ECU (next to the battery) are clean.
Carefully remove the two connectors off the top of the ECU and use a electrical contact cleaner on both the ECU and loom connectors.
Let it dry before refitting.

You could then check to see if it was a ECU or wiring issue or an actually injector issue.

You could try clearing the codes and swapping injector 2 around with one of the others.

If the problem still flags number 2 no matter which injector is in it that cylinder, you've a wiring/ecu issue and perhaps need someone with some diagnostic equipment (and knowledge) to test the wiring and ECU.

If the problem moves with the injector, it's an issue with that injector and you'll need to replace it with a new one or you might find a used one on ebay or a breakers.

If you can't get them off (check the internet for any help with removing them, Punto's, Cinq's, Sei's etc with 8 valves should all be similar), you still might be able to test them with a multimeter.

If a quick resistence check of each injector shows a difference with number 2, that might be enough to condem that injector.
Off hand I can't remember what an injectors should read, but 15 Ohms rings a bell, but any significant difference with number two would be telling.
You could also monitor the power to each injector at the looms connectors to the injectors, you'd need to back prode with a volt meter and crank the engine, see if number 2 matches the rest, this might show a wiring/ecu problem.

Daughter's 1.1 Panda had a similar problem which local garage failed to cure, changing injections parts and also coil packs (twice!!)
Fault turned out to be the earth cable which attach to the chassis/inner wing area in front of battery. With these terminals cleaned up problem was solved.

superste said:

Hello All!


The wife's 1.1l Panda's finally had a service - last one was Oct 2012 (yes, I know....). She'd neglected to tell me that the EML's on and it's running roughly. Kwik Fit (yes, I know...) diagnosed code P0202 - Injector on Cylinder #2 . Obviously, we don't want to spend a fortune if it's a (fairly) simple fix, so firstly, any suggestions?


Hope you guys 'n gals can help!

Click to expand...

be aware that Non- FIAT specific kit may give misleading code meanings.

where are you based..? , as hooking up to MultiECUScan may prove more useful,
Charlie - Oxford

Thanks for all your replies - some good info there, thanks Goudrons.


First off, I'm figuring the injectors are under the airbox, above/behind the spark plugs, with a yellow connector on each. Are the cylinders numbered in any particular way - as obvious as left is #1 , then #'s 2,3,4? To check the resistance is it just a case of removing the wiring loom's yellow connector and sticking a DVM across the terminals on the injector (and are there just two terminals per injector?)


Secondly, if required, is it easy to get the injectors out? And can they be swapped around, or indeed replaced, without having to 'program' them? (My old diesel Mondeo's injectors needed 'programming'...)


Thanks as well Trimdoner - I'll follow the earth cables and check out the state of the terminals...


And yes, varesecrazy, it WAS Kwik Fit after all, so was most likely a generic code reader (to be fair, they admitted it wasn't their speciality, but reasonably speculated on the potential causes). I'm up in the North West, so unfortunately not near you. Is MultiECUscan FIAT-specific?


In the meantime, the car IS running, so it may well be a weekend fiddle. I've suggested the wife fills up with posh petrol anyway for the detergents, just in case it's down to a blockage - she did run it on fumes a few weeks back, so all the crap in the bottom of the tank could've made its way to the injectors.


Will keep you posted!!!

https://www.fiatforum.com/punto-mk2...everythingis-1-2fire-engine-2000-onwards.html

punto 2/b section has HUGE amount of How-to info..,

injector should NOT be coded / chipped,
#1 is at timing belt end =#4 at gearbox + battery end,

have fun ,
feel free to take pics and make a small GUIDE..
Charlie

UPDATE. Still misfiring at times with EML on. Bought a generic reader which showed 2 codes. P0202 as reported, also P0352 which is 'Ignition coil primary/secondary cylinder 2' I think. So far I've done the following...
Cleaned up and reseated earth tags behind the battery.
Swapped the coils around to see if the fault swapped over too. It didn't.
Ditto ht leads. It didn't.
At some point here, the P0202 code got erased and hasn't returned, leaving just a P0352 to appear and the intermittent misfire. I'm now thinking spark plugs - last changed 24k miles ago. Tried taking them out, but felt a bit 'graunchy' (technical term). Need to get some replacements ready to fit in. Will keep you posted!

Just been reading another recent updated thread by puppypaws - Panda misfire problem - so I've got further food for thought... Hmmm...

Well, got round to fitting new spark plugs (NGK's) and also sprayed every connector I could see (ECU, ht leads, injectors, coils) with contact cleaner. Reset the fault code and EML and, fingers crossed, fault gone!!! One happy wife, one smug husband...

Good old Kwik Fit once again ...!

Glad you got it sorted, and that you now know your way around the engine for the future.
Hope your good lady showed proper appreciation!

Update: 3 months later and the misfire is back, with the same code/codes. Feeling brave, I dived in and dug out the injector rail, moving all the injectors (which looked OK) up by one place ie all in different cylinders. Fault code reset but soon back, P0352. Therefore, not injectors. I've previously swapped round and ruled out ht leads, coils. New sparks seemed to sort it, but it's back. All that's left then is the ECU or wiring, I reckon. Any thoughts out there? Thanks

P's the misfire is intermittent, not continuous, and generally appears once the engine's warmed up. Got me puzzled...

It's the wiring harness.
It's a common issue with the 1.1 engine.
One of the harnesses from the ECU has a dodgy connection/

If you search the forum you'll find someone that had the loom repaired and fault fixed, some dealers know about this and will change out the harness.

I've been following this thread for a while and just noticed the recent update on here. My 2008 1.1 active has the same problem, has been intermittent and usually gone away but is now back and has been for 5 weeks or so.

I'm hoping a wiring harness will fix it as I have been doing everything superste has been doing.

Where can I buy a decent wiring harness from.

This is a thread I remember that someone had it fixed and a Fiat Tech confirmed it was a (reasonable well) known issue.

https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/317388-panda-eco-1-1-2010-misfire-fix.html

You'd have to say it's likely the harness from the ECU to the coils and from the sounds of it there's a spliced joint (like a Y joint) to the rear within the loom that causes the issue.

It only seems to effect the 1.1's and seems to manifest it's self as misfires and cutting out over bumps.

It could possible show electronically as coil signal faults and perhaps injector circuit faults (either of which will more than likely cause the misfires and cutting out)

If you're thinking of condeming the loom, perhaps you could strip it back and find the offending joint.
If you then post your findings and fix, you'd be a hero to all the 1.1 sufferers!

OK, I've been busy ringing round fiat dealerships, asking for a technician in the service department. Out of 6 I've rung, none are aware of a known fault with the 1.1 Panda misfiring. Some knew their stuff more than others, all would do a diagnostic (including what I've already done) for between £59 and £85. After that, I got the feeling they'd just start slaving in new components willy-nilly until the fault went (possibly only temporarily - see my experience with the spark plugs). The guy at Stockport Lookers was the most helpful, agreeing with my methodology so far and warning that a wiring fault could take some time to diagnose at £80 an hour...
I've kicked the can down the road as far as I can for now, although I'm going to try an independent 'fiat specialist' (Guy under the railway arches) next. Meanwhile, I've got a new coil on order. Yes, I know I've ruled that out in theory, but often theory and reality don't make good bedfellows... Sometimes you've just got to suck it and see, so I'll stick that in and see what happens. Watch this space...

Any update on this as I am really getting to the end of my tether and patience has all but eroded away with my panda. Seriously looking at going back and owning an old micra!

Giplansken said:

Any update on this as I am really getting to the end of my tether and patience has all but eroded away with my panda. Seriously looking at going back and owning an old micra!

Click to expand...

so what have you done / tested / changed

what error codes..just the injector 2

varesecrazy said:

so what have you done / tested / changed

what error codes..just the injector 2

Click to expand...

The injectors have been swapped about and it is still showing as a fault on cylinder 2. Coil packs have been replaced my Dad is going to check the plugs for any discolouring in them.

But I am a bit annoyed at it all.