Technical Panda eco 1.1 2010 misfire The FIX !

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Technical Panda eco 1.1 2010 misfire The FIX !

mulaz

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my panda 1.1 eco started doing the odd misfiring trick
not good for a 3 year old motor.
did the normal stuff new HT leads and a new coil pack swapped around etc,

Had it checked over by a decent garage and they said to get Fiat Ht leads instead of the chepo ones i had bought .

Then called into a auto electrical engineer in my neck of the woods in durham.
he said straight away what the problem was as he had done 3 other panda's before.

The wiring loom has a plug hidden away under the tape and the pins in the connector needed looking at and re crimping and also that one of the wires also needs cutting out and replacing because it goes brittle.

fiat needs to address this as i have 3 fiats in my ownership

and will think again before i by another one

left it with him for the day and he only charged £60
my panda is now back to normal:)
 
Fiat don't need to address anything as its far from a common problem.

So go on then, please advise exactly where this plug is and the bit of wire that needs replacing.

Having had a Panda stripped to bit there didn't ever seem to be any brittle bits of wire, and I'm not sure where this plug you refer to is located.
 
sorry but all i know is that it's around the Y piece just below the ECU.
but i am not willing to strip out any of my loom to double check.
i am only going on what i was told.

at least i didn't go down the £££££££ route by replacing my ECU as many people have been lead to believe with out a fix .(y)
 
glad you sorted the proble, wiring looms are always a weak spot because of their exposure to the elements. if you take the scuttle off under the wipers it rubs and damages the wires
 
Had exactly same symptoms on my 1.1 Eco Active 2009 at 52,000 miles. Code P0351 came up and local garage replaced both coil packs, and it seemd to fix it. After 200 miles the misfire started again and em light glowed orange (as before). RAC turned out and said straight away "it's the ecu". Booked in to main dealer to hope for a more detailed diagnostic. Some hope. Main dealer says there's nothing wrong with the car but ecu software needs updating (another £48). Software updated and now it runs like a sewing machine ...... I'm not convinced. Time will tell - I'll post again in a few weeks to let you know how it's going.
 
my panda 1.1 eco started doing the odd misfiring trick
not good for a 3 year old motor.
did the normal stuff new HT leads and a new coil pack swapped around etc,

Had it checked over by a decent garage and they said to get Fiat Ht leads instead of the chepo ones i had bought .

Then called into a auto electrical engineer in my neck of the woods in durham.
he said straight away what the problem was as he had done 3 other panda's before.

The wiring loom has a plug hidden away under the tape and the pins in the connector needed looking at and re crimping and also that one of the wires also needs cutting out and replacing because it goes brittle.

fiat needs to address this as i have 3 fiats in my ownership

and will think again before i by another one

left it with him for the day and he only charged £60
my panda is now back to normal:)

Sounds like a con job to me - total BS...
Probably a loose connection thats all.
WHY didnt you take it to someone with diagnostic equipment instead of buggering around with changing things and back street rip off merchants ?
There are NO 'brittle' wires and 'hidden' connectors etc etc - utter, total crap.
You have been well and truly conned. Wanna buy some dehydrated water ?? :rolleyes:
 
Had exactly same symptoms on my 1.1 Eco Active 2009 at 52,000 miles. Code P0351 came up and local garage replaced both coil packs, and it seemd to fix it. After 200 miles the misfire started again and em light glowed orange (as before). RAC turned out and said straight away "it's the ecu". Booked in to main dealer to hope for a more detailed diagnostic. Some hope. Main dealer says there's nothing wrong with the car but ecu software needs updating (another £48). Software updated and now it runs like a sewing machine ...... I'm not convinced. Time will tell - I'll post again in a few weeks to let you know how it's going.
Excellent price then. full diags AND new firmware for 48 quid, absolute bargain, and car running superb - like a 'Sewing machine' - but :eek:- you are 'still not convinced' ???? - what are you not convinced of exactly ?
The RAC know absolutely nothing of any value. If he told you it was the ECU, report him - or rather - probably better reporting yourself for listening to an RAC 'driver' who says 'straight away' its the ecu - amazing, he must have xray vision and built. in diagnostics. (they only know how to do the most BASIC things).
Just be happy its fine and you were charged next to nothing. A freebie really. You would have saved the expense of the coils had you gone to the dealer to start with instead of the 'back street boys'
 
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my panda 1.1 eco started doing the odd misfiring trick
not good for a 3 year old motor.
did the normal stuff new HT leads and a new coil pack swapped around etc,

Had it checked over by a decent garage and they said to get Fiat Ht leads instead of the chepo ones i had bought .

Then called into a auto electrical engineer in my neck of the woods in durham.
he said straight away what the problem was as he had done 3 other panda's before.

The wiring loom has a plug hidden away under the tape and the pins in the connector needed looking at and re crimping and also that one of the wires also needs cutting out and replacing because it goes brittle.

fiat needs to address this as i have 3 fiats in my ownership

and will think again before i by another one

left it with him for the day and he only charged £60
my panda is now back to normal:)

If it's fixed and works, £60 isn't a bad price.
Auto sparks are far better at tracing wiring issues than dealers and the greasy bloke under the arches, these tend to replace sensors etc, without first checking the wiring.

I can actually believe it may be the cause of some issues, the ECU will send out voltage to most sensors, usually 5 volts.

The sensors will alter this voltage, depending on what they are doing.
(a live sensor should return a certain voltage like 1v, even if it's not running, otherwise a open circuit code will flag)
And will return the altered voltage back to the ECU, so there are two wires and at least four connections per sensor for feed and return.
Add in an earth, another wire and another couple of connections.

It only takes one iffy connection/wire for it to cause an issue.

I had a issue with our old Active, a thump of the ECU seemed to clear it for a while, I was part convinced it was a connection somewhere.
Lot's of others descride cleaning the ECU connectors sorts out certain issues, maybe the fact the wiring is disturbed is the actual fix.

Could you post a pic of the area the Spark fixed?
 
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I'm with the learned friends who think that the intermittent misfire issue is a problem with ignition circuit connections. Disturbing them can both cause and fix the problem. If you believe that an ecu software update can solve an intermittent misfire problem perhaps you could explain to me exactly how that works.
 
If it's fixed and works, £60 isn't a bad price.
Auto sparks are far better at tracing wiring issues than dealers and the greasy bloke under the arches, these tend to replace sensors etc, without first checking the wiring.

However, 'ficticious fault wiring / connector' misfires would be logged..... ;) (apparantly they were no logs on the other posters fault - the OP does not say what errors were present in the logs if any ....)
Firmware related incorrect ignition actuation points would not be logged if the firmware makes the system believe it is firing at the correct point ... updating it - if an issue was identified with the original, would cure that type of fault.. it is classed as an 'incorrect adaptation fault' (usually caused by not enough tolerance in the adaptation)
It is also incorrect to say that 'Auto sparks are far better at tracing wiring issues than dealers' - although it may be true of SOME dealers and SOME sparks.
Most sparks simply do not have the correct diagnostic equipment. That is why they are dissapearing from the scene at a high rate.

The 60 quid fix was probably a simple connector pull spray and push.... nothing more - hence the 'hidden' connector ,,,,, :) :)
;)
 
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I know several Auto Electricians that are far more qualified than any dealer Technician in regards to vehicle technology repair, so how is my statement incorrect?

Of one in particular, all his work comes from via dealers, as he carries far more specialist kit, oscilloscopes and the likes, than any dealer would carry or know how to use.
 
So by not posting a DTC means there wasn't any?

The proofs in the pudding, sorting the wiring fixed it and £60 is around an hours work, I'd consider that a job well done for a reasonable outlay.
 
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What the OP is trying to describe is a 'splice-joint' which is located in the engine harness near the rear ignition coil.

This has been known to myself and other Fiat techs for years so it's nothing new and it's likely the auto electrician phoned dealer for advice, I take around 5-8 phone calls per day from other garages so lets not slag of the dealer techs, dealerships pay their wages not Fiat.

Anyway re-soldering the crimp connection often works but not all the time and the best bet is to replace engine loom at around £135 which isn't expensive (cost of 2 branded tryes) and takes about an hour.

Errors? yes you often get an injector or a random misfire error this is due to the splice joint powering the coils/injectors and a couple of near by sensors.

Hope that has cleared things up.
 
Sounds like a con job to me - total BS...
Probably a loose connection thats all.
WHY didnt you take it to someone with diagnostic equipment instead of buggering around with changing things and back street rip off merchants ?
There are NO 'brittle' wires and 'hidden' connectors etc etc - utter, total crap.
You have been well and truly conned. Wanna buy some dehydrated water ?? :rolleyes:

So someone pays 60 and doesn't get diagnostics and their car is fixed up yet someone pays 48 quid and doesn't get it fixed yet you seem to think this is ok?
 
So someone pays 60 and doesn't get diagnostics and their car is fixed up yet someone pays 48 quid and doesn't get it fixed yet you seem to think this is ok?
Yes, because of all the BS the alleged spark gave him about brittle wires etc etc.. cutting wires out... yeah , sure... somehow I dont think so.
Just excuse no 26 for why it took him so long.... Brittle wires on a car of that age - pull the other one.. more fool the people that accept that crap.

Also, read the post re the diagnostics, where does it say it WASNT fixed ? :rolleyes: I think the comment is it is running like a sewing machine... sheesh .. :bang:

(y)
 
This thread contains two examples of similar if not the same wiring issue, (one of those from a Fiat tech).

The OP's car now runs, as quoted "like a sewing machine".

The diagnosis and fix cost them a reasonable £60.

Yet you dismiss the diagnosis and fix as "BS".

"the pins in the connector needed looking at and re crimping and also that one of the wires also needs cutting out and replacing because it goes brittle."

I can imagine the bear wire between the connector and the wires sheath could become weak if flexed.

Or the soldered joint be effected by the annealing of the heat used to solder and become softer than drawn wire.

Or grain boundary penetration of the copper in the original and/or subsequent soldering process would lead to embrittlement.

I'd would also consider the use of "brittle" used by the OP's electrician to mean not as strong as it once was rather than breaking without significant deformation, but both are possible.
 
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This thread contains two examples of similar if not the same wiring issue, (one of those from a Fiat tech).

The OP's car now runs, as quoted "like a sewing machine".

The diagnosis and fix cost them a reasonable £60.

Yet you dismiss the diagnosis and fix as "BS".

"the pins in the connector needed looking at and re crimping and also that one of the wires also needs cutting out and replacing because it goes brittle."

I can imagine the bear wire between the connector and the wires sheath could become weak if flexed.

Or the soldered joint be effected by the annealing of the heat used to solder and become softer than drawn wire.

Or grain boundary penetration of the copper in the original and/or subsequent soldering process would lead to embrittlement.

I'd would also consider the use of "brittle" used by the OP's electrician to mean not as strong as it once was rather than breaking without significant deformation, but both are possible.

Absolutely, and pigs might fly, or little green men came down and ate the wiring , I mean the car was really old as well - he could also have meant "I hadnt a clue and rang fiat after buggering about for 4 hours without a clue.. they told me to clean and check X which I did but made up some total BS for the customer to try to explain the time delay and justify the cost...(y)

:rolleyes:

If you believe the original BS, then you should buy 2 lottery tickets as it halves the odds from 14 million to one to 7 million..:idea:
 
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