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What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

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What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

mowermender70 said:
as said before .i have never owned a ford i worked for a ford dist in west sussex . doing garden machinery ,on the first day md took me round the site ,got to ford spares dept , and he said THIS IS THE ONLY PART OF THE COMPANY THAT MAKES A PROFIT. it done cars vans and commercil vehicles. i wonder if its stil the same?
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Here is an example of the mensa level of engineering currently going on at Ford.

In the left to right hand drive conversion of the new Focus they leave the bonnet handle on the passenger side.

Most cars slightly annoying but not an actual problem.

Ford Focus though, in common with many cars the door fouls the handle so you can't open the bonnet on the move I assume/can't break the window and pop the bonnet.

But what they also do is not supply a passenger side lock barrel, and there is no internal facility to unlock the door without battery power.

So if you are luckless enough to have a battery so flat the power locks don't work you walk to you car unlock it with the key. You then get in and realise you can't pull the bonnet...you can also not unlock the passenger door to open the bonnet. You also cannot open the boot so if you happen to have the tools on board to disassemble the bits of the interior required to pull the release cable you'll be accessing them through the back seat..though let's hope you didn't specify electric seats as well. As you won't be able to open the back doors either...
 
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StevenRB45 said:
Here is an example of the mensa level of engineering currently going on at Ford.

In the left to right hand drive conversion of the new Focus they leave the bonnet handle on the passenger side.

Most cars slightly annoying but not an actual problem.

Ford Focus though, in common with many cars the door fouls the handle so you can't open the bonnet on the move I assume/can't break the window and pop the bonnet.

But what they also do is not supply a passenger side lock barrel, and there is no internal facility to unlock the door without battery power.

So if you are luckless enough to have a battery so flat the power locks don't work you walk to you car unlock it with the key. You then get in and realise you can't pull the bonnet...you can also not unlock the passenger door to open the bonnet. You also cannot open the boot so if you happen to have the tools on board to disassemble the bits of the interior required to pull the release cable you'll be accessing them through the back seat..though let's hope you didn't specify electric seats as well. As you won't be able to open the back doors either...
Click to expand...

Oh WOW! :eek:

That's really special :p :ROFLMAO:
 
StevenRB45 said:
Here is an example of the mensa level of engineering currently going on at Ford.

In the left to right hand drive conversion of the new Focus they leave the bonnet handle on the passenger side.

Most cars slightly annoying but not an actual problem.

Ford Focus though, in common with many cars the door fouls the handle so you can't open the bonnet on the move I assume/can't break the window and pop the bonnet.

But what they also do is not supply a passenger side lock barrel, and there is no internal facility to unlock the door without battery power.

So if you are luckless enough to have a battery so flat the power locks don't work you walk to you car unlock it with the key. You then get in and realise you can't pull the bonnet...you can also not unlock the passenger door to open the bonnet. You also cannot open the boot so if you happen to have the tools on board to disassemble the bits of the interior required to pull the release cable you'll be accessing them through the back seat..though let's hope you didn't specify electric seats as well. As you won't be able to open the back doors either...
Click to expand...

Fiat did a similar thing with the later puntos the bonnet release is on the passenger side but does not interfere with the door so can still be opened if needed but means you have to climb over everything if the battery is dead.

What happened to the Ford bonnet opening with the key which was a far better idea than an in car handle, at least you could open the bonnet even if you couldn’t open the car for what ever reason. Just twist the key one way then the other
 
AndyRKett said:
What happened to the Ford bonnet opening with the key which was a far better idea than an in car handle, at least you could open the bonnet even if you couldn’t open the car for what ever reason. Just twist the key one way then the other
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No idea, it's that system on my dads focus 2. Even that was bit poorly thought through in that if you forget to unlock the car before opening the bonnet you set the alarm off.

I'd imagine it's been ditched to stop keyless entry cars requiring you to dismantle the "smart" key to gain access to the emergency blade every time you want to top off the screen wash.

Passenger side handle is fairly common on European cars. As is it being blocked by the door (I assume there must be a regulation somewhere about that).

To recycle a recently posted photo, you can see the bonnet release on the C3 is in exactly the same position as the Ford..you can probably see as well the door pocket would block the handle if the door was shut.


But it also has a keyhole in this door..

And yes that's the owners manual in the door pocket because it's bigger than the glovebox due to the fusebox.
 
StevenRB45 said:
I'd imagine it's been ditched to stop keyless entry cars requiring you to dismantle the "smart" key to gain access to the emergency blade every time you want to top off the screen wash.
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But it also has a keyhole in this door..

And yes that's the owners manual in the door pocket because it's bigger than the glovebox due to the fusebox.
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You’ve probably hit the nail on the head there.

Never considered it as the mini we have while being keyless entry has the bonnet release on the right side and last Ford I had to open the bonnet on was probably a mk3 Monday or mk2 Focus?

My dad has a 2009 era Focus and I’m sure that has the key for the bonnet.

Out of the cars we have the Mini Countryman has the bonnet release on the drivers side (not sure if the door stops it being used might have to check that) but you pull it once to pop it then pull it a second time to open the bonnet fully, no fumbling for a catch.

The golf has the release on the drivers side despite being a German car, the door does prevent it being opened if the door is closed and the catch is immediately on top of the VW badge and it’s very wide and flat so very easy.

Just seems mad that Ford would design something so badly, they’re not cheap these days, my golf it a German made and designed car and they switched everything over for the RHD version.
 
AndyRKett said:
Just seems mad that Ford would design something so badly, they’re not cheap these days, my golf it a German made and designed car and they switched everything over for the RHD version.
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That's why find the engineering so baffling..in general I find slightly crap engineering forgivable if you aren't paying the full going rate.

But with Ford you're looking at nearly the most expensive none premium cars available in their respective classes. Yet you'd be disappointed if your Lada had designed in issues like that.

Then again does anyone pay full list on a Ford? I'd hope not as I could have bought a brand new Dacia Sandero with the price difference between what we paid for the C3 and what the list for a Fiesta in a similar spec was by the time you'd added the missing bits from the options list and the 125 engine required for the Ford to match the performance figures.

Crazy.
 
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We've kind of put the Tipo purchase on the back boiler now that the Astra has passed it's MOT (astonishing me by attracting no advisories!). You may remember that this is my Boy's 2007 Astra 1600 estate which is very much his work hack and really needs to be replaced as it's just simply wearing out.

He needs something robust without any fancy trim to damage, because he carries his folding ladders and all his other signwriting gear in it. The Tipo 1.4 T-jet estate fits the bill as does the Dacia Logan MCV but we're not so keen on the engine choice with the Logan (We think a petrol engine would be best as he does most of his running in and around town so DPFs etc would be problematic).

Anyway, I was just having a wee look at the Tipo's again and our local Arnold Clark seems to be bursting at the seams with them, especially the 1.6 diesel which they are selling, I think as pre reggies, for just under £13000. Then I came across this: https://www.arnoldclark.com/nearly-...4-t-jet-120-mirror-5dr/2020/ref/arnhq-n-11122 - same price as the Diesel! Very tempting, I could fancy one myself!

The only fly in the ointment is that I presume Fiat's "new" electronic regime will apply so MES won't be able to communicate? does anyone know if the pre facelift (was that around 2018?) versions can still be interrogated with MES?
 
I went out for my walk at just after 11am this morning and noticed the Hazard flashers on our new neighbour's Renault were flashing away merrily - the one which had the flat tyre a couple of days ago. Another neighbour I know well was just coming out of the flats so I shouted across to her to give our new neighbour's intercom a buzz and tell him about the car's flashers. I then set off on my walk. Returned at about 12.30 and noticed the flashers are still flashing.

I made a cup-a-soup for my lunch and then settled down to munch on a banana whilst watching the news. Our new neighbour came out of the flats shortly after and went over to the car, obviously clicking his remote locking thingy. It seemed to have no effect with the flashers continuing to flash. He then got into the car and fiddled about for a while - I guess trying the hazard flaster button etc - all to no effect, Flashers still flashing! After a few minutes he drove off still with the flashers flashing. Obviously the imobilizer wasn't affected and the alarm was not sounding. I wonder what's gone wrong? I wonder if it could be something as simple as maybe a bonnet switch? However I won't be leaping to volunteer to help with this one.
 
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Pugglt Auld Jock said:
I went out for my walk at just after 11am this morning and noticed the Hazard flashers on our new neighbour's Renault were flashing away merrily - the one which had the flat tyre a couple of days ago. Another neighbour I know well was just coming out of the flats so I shouted across to her to give our new neighbour's intercom a buzz and tell him about the car's flashers. I then set off on my walk. Returned at about 12.30 and noticed the flashers are still flashing.

I made a cup-a-soup for my lunch and then settled down to munch on a banana whilst watching the news. Our new neighbour came out of the flats shortly after and went over to the car, obviously clicking his remote locking thingy. It seemed to have no effect with the flashers continuing to flash. He then got into the car and fiddled about for a while - I guess trying the hazard flaster button etc - all to no effect, Flashers still flashing! After a few minutes he drove off still with the flashers flashing. Obviously the imobilizer wasn't affected and the alarm was not sounding. I wonder what's gone wrong? I wonder if it could be something as simple as maybe a bonnet switch? However I won't be leaping to volunteer to help with this one.
Click to expand...

Best to keep far away from any Renault with alarm issues. Since teh introduction of remote locking and alarms, Renault have frequently displayed strange issues.
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
I went out for my walk at just after 11am this morning and noticed the Hazard flashers on our new neighbour's Renault were flashing away merrily - the one which had the flat tyre a couple of days ago. Another neighbour I know well was just coming out of the flats so I shouted across to her to give our new neighbour's intercom a buzz and tell him about the car's flashers. I then set off on my walk. Returned at about 12.30 and noticed the flashers are still flashing.

I made a cup-a-soup for my lunch and then settled down to munch on a banana whilst watching the news. Our new neighbour came out of the flats shortly after and went over to the car, obviously clicking his remote locking thingy. It seemed to have no effect with the flashers continuing to flash. He then got into the car and fiddled about for a while - I guess trying the hazard flaster button etc - all to no effect, Flashers still flashing! After a few minutes he drove off still with the flashers flashing. Obviously the imobilizer wasn't affected and the alarm was not sounding. I wonder what's gone wrong? I wonder if it could be something as simple as maybe a bonnet switch? However I won't be leaping to volunteer to help with this one.
Click to expand...

Only time I've had similar was at work, hot summers day. Dash cam screen sticker pad glue has softened, camera fell from the screen and bounce and hit the hazard warning light on its way down.

Had a few colleagues ask why I'd left my hazards on when they came back from their lunch :p
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
he only fly in the ointment is that I presume Fiat's "new" electronic regime will apply so MES won't be able to communicate? does anyone know if the pre facelift (was that around 2018?) versions can still be interrogated with MES?
Click to expand...

I first used MES on a 2001 Punto HGT. It was well established back then so I think backwards compatibility is not an issue. As you say, compatibility with any new electric Fiats remains to be seen. But such a massive change will probably mean new software is needed. Do electric cars even have OBD ports?

Edit -
Tesla has got it's cars exempt from the requirements to fit and OBD port. The argument is that OBD was originally there to support emissions testing. No emissions - no need for the port. It's another way that Tesla is getting around the rights to repair regulations, which we can expect other car makers to follow. The late great Jack Rickard has a You Tube video on the subject.
 
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DaveMcT said:
I first used MES on a 2001 Punto HGT. It was well established back then so I think backwards compatibility is not an issue. As you say, compatibility with any new electric Fiats remains to be seen. But such a massive change will probably mean new software is needed. Do electric cars even have OBD ports?
Click to expand...

I don’t think it’s electric cars jock is talking about but newer Fiat’s have a “secure” OBD port that requires some sort of code to then allow the car to connect. It was introduced because of all those cars that get stolen by people who break in on the driveway and program themselves a new key, then drive off.

I didn’t know tesla has done away with the port but from watching things like Rich Rebuilds I’m guessing they have there own way of doing things, I’m not sure that the main car manufacturers would do away with OBD on electric cars but it’s an interesting question as many of the fault codes are generic are they going to/do they have specific codes to deal with motor or battery problems ?
 
I keep getting ads pop up..

New housing estates.. Teeside is a favourite

My commute is long enough already ;)


Got one ad recurring the last couple of days :

Rural location in Swindon

Commuter links to Reading and Didcot..

(Didcot was my home for 30 years.. it has seen growth of :

Housing - @400%

Shopping - @50%

Secondary Schooling - 0.0%

Employment - minus 20%

But it is 40 minutes from London.. )
 
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DaveMcT said:
I first used MES on a 2001 Punto HGT. It was well established back then so I think backwards compatibility is not an issue. As you say, compatibility with any new electric Fiats remains to be seen. But such a massive change will probably mean new software is needed. Do electric cars even have OBD ports?

Edit -
Tesla has got it's cars exempt from the requirements to fit and OBD port. The argument is that OBD was originally there to support emissions testing. No emissions - no need for the port. It's another way that Tesla is getting around the rights to repair regulations, which we can expect other car makers to follow. The late great Jack Rickard has a You Tube video on the subject.
Click to expand...

Didn’t know Tesla don’t, but yes generally EVs still have OBD2 ports. My Soul does, I use it to power my dash cam.
 
Most Easterly Pandas said:
Didn’t know Tesla don’t, but yes generally EVs still have OBD2 ports. My Soul does, I use it to power my dash cam.
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Scrapping the OBD port would be a massive backward step as you'd soon need specialist kit for every car maker and potentially every new model. The OBD forces manufacturers to keep to a standard interface which has to be a good thing.
 
Pugglt Auld Jock said:
Yup Dave. It was that new "secure" protocol I'm worried about. As long as I have vehicles with IC engines I want to be able to "talk" to them. By the time I'm into electrically powered ones Either I'll be too old to be driving and probably too old to be fixing them so I don't care if electric ones don't have OBD ports!
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Most folk don't care, but the effect is to de-skill the population so before long you can only get you car fixed (at huge expense) by the main dealer who has in interest in selling you a new car because your software Ogle plug has fallen out and lost the hard drive oil.

There was an interesting idea put forward I believe by Jack Rickard about how the electric cars will go down.
It went something like this -

Stage 1 - Lekky cars are expensive but most folks would have one given the money but they will take an IC engine next time.
Stage 2 - Lekky cars are getting cheaper so dont really want to lock into old tech. I'll keep my IC car a bit longer.
Stage 3 - Legacy car makers drop the prices and entice a few into their products. But now they have even less cash to spend on new leaky models.
Stage 4 - People refuse to sell their older but reliable IC cars while they wait for Lekky to arrive. Used car prices spike. Garage services do a great trade fixing cars that have been kept going for longer than usual.
Stage 5 - People switch to electric cars. The IC car market collapses. Smaller garages and dealers go out of business along with legacy car makers who failed to make the shift in time.
Stage 6 - IC car drivers suffer range anxiety (and high costs) as petrol stations dry up.
 
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Picked up a story about longevity of electric drive trains. Despite the motor being brushless, the magnetic field induces current in the whole thing, being metal, and current passes through the motor bearings. The bearings gradually deteriorate as a result, with pitting of the bearing surfaces.
There is a story of a guy in America with a Merc B-class electric, 5 years old, with horrendous motor whine. Dealer quoted to replace the complete motor, $18k. Later dropped to $12k with motor at cost and labour discounted by 20%.
There's a guy in California specialising in this sort of repair, will replace the bearings in the motors. Car had to be transported there and back, but total cost was $5k. Cheaper, but still a lot.
Sort of kills the savings made by reduced ICE servicing.
Apparently this is a feature of all brushless electric motors, well known in other industries such as washing machines. I foresee specialist motor rebuilders popping up in a few years time.
Saw a vid showing ownership costs of EV v ICE. Fuel savings would take 10 years before they paid for the extra cost of the EV, after whish you'd start to save money. A more complicated calculation accounting for servicing and brakes brought the break-even point to about 7 years, still longer than most keep the car. Whilst an EV will be lighter on its brakes, they are expected to be heavier on suspension bushes and dampers.

There is no magic answer.
 
portland_bill said:
Picked up a story about longevity of electric drive trains. Despite the motor being brushless, the magnetic field induces current in the whole thing, being metal, and current passes through the motor bearings. The bearings gradually deteriorate as a result, with pitting of the bearing surfaces.
There is a story of a guy in America with a Merc B-class electric, 5 years old, with horrendous motor whine. Dealer quoted to replace the complete motor, $18k. Later dropped to $12k with motor at cost and labour discounted by 20%.
There's a guy in California specialising in this sort of repair, will replace the bearings in the motors. Car had to be transported there and back, but total cost was $5k. Cheaper, but still a lot.
Sort of kills the savings made by reduced ICE servicing.
Apparently this is a feature of all brushless electric motors, well known in other industries such as washing machines. I foresee specialist motor rebuilders popping up in a few years time.
Saw a vid showing ownership costs of EV v ICE. Fuel savings would take 10 years before they paid for the extra cost of the EV, after whish you'd start to save money. A more complicated calculation accounting for servicing and brakes brought the break-even point to about 7 years, still longer than most keep the car. Whilst an EV will be lighter on its brakes, they are expected to be heavier on suspension bushes and dampers.

There is no magic answer.
Click to expand...

Of course, it won't be much of a change for Mercedes/Audi/BMW drivers who already have horrendously priced and over-engineered parts fail in ownership, but for the rest of us.... not good.

Maybe we'll have to all stick to the new Citroen "AMI" to keep costs manageable :D
 
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