What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

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What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

I have a 2012 MacBook Pro 13" Its had the memory upgraded to 16Gig of Crucual and the hard drive is now a 1TB SSD from Crucial. It never feels slow and continues to work well.

Until yesterday, the only fault has been the silly ribbon cable that connects the hard drive. It's silly because there are too many sharp folds around the chassis. None of which would be needed of the disc was fitted the other way up. At least the genuine part was no costly.
 
but I've given it a go and I personally didn't find it as seamless.

It is these days. I can literally pick a file on my iPhone and with Microsoft one drive select where I want it to appear on my laptop.

I did a quick bit of filming earlier on my iPhone, and pinged it directly to the desktop of my laptop to be edited when I got back inside the house.

I can with my iPad, use Garage band to create music then render the finished music direct to my laptop again to be edited into videos later if needed.

The biggest complaint I have with Apple is I'm not spending £300 on Final Cut Pro to do video editing I can do on my laptop with software that costs £50. then on top of that I'd need an £3k Macbook to meet the same intel i7 20GB ram and 2TB SSD storage my laptop has got, also screen real estate is important with video editing hence having a 17.3 inch screen.

I've stated plugging my iPad in and connecting it to the laptop as a second screen to further the screen space for editing, I can open files and folders on the iPad screen before dragging and dropping them into where I want for editing purposes. I can even use the iPad with the apple pencil as a highly accurate Tablet for photo and image editing in photoshop.

I've got it is well organised now.


Looking at the current Macbook Line up, a 16" macbook with 16GB memory and a 2TB ssd is £3200.

The upgrade from a 1TB to 2TB hard drive alone is £400 (more than twice what buying a 2TB SSD costs) and the laptop is not upgradeable once you get it home.

New Macbooks come with memory and hard drive storage all soldered to the motherboard and have done for the last few years.
DaveMcT and his 2012 macbook is probably one of the last of the macbooks you can fully upgrade.
 
It is these days. I can literally pick a file on my iPhone and with Microsoft one drive select where I want it to appear on my laptop.

I did a quick bit of filming earlier on my iPhone, and pinged it directly to the desktop of my laptop to be edited when I got back inside the house.

I can with my iPad, use Garage band to create music then render the finished music direct to my laptop again to be edited into videos later if needed.

The biggest complaint I have with Apple is I'm not spending £300 on Final Cut Pro to do video editing I can do on my laptop with software that costs £50. then on top of that I'd need an £3k Macbook to meet the same intel i7 20GB ram and 2TB SSD storage my laptop has got, also screen real estate is important with video editing hence having a 17.3 inch screen.

I've stated plugging my iPad in and connecting it to the laptop as a second screen to further the screen space for editing, I can open files and folders on the iPad screen before dragging and dropping them into where I want for editing purposes. I can even use the iPad with the apple pencil as a highly accurate Tablet for photo and image editing in photoshop.

I've got it is well organised now.


Looking at the current Macbook Line up, a 16" macbook with 16GB memory and a 2TB ssd is £3200.

The upgrade from a 1TB to 2TB hard drive alone is £400 (more than twice what buying a 2TB SSD costs) and the laptop is not upgradeable once you get it home.

New Macbooks come with memory and hard drive storage all soldered to the motherboard and have done for the last few years.

DaveMcT and his 2012 macbook is probably one of the last of the macbooks you can fully upgrade.

I did that in September-November using Windows and an iPhone XR, the OneDrive app is okay on iPhone but it isn't as well integrated as the Files app, and then to use OneDrive via the Files app lacks all of the good OneDrive features like Personal Vault etc.

They say Final Cut on a Mac is much faster though than most PCs running the Adobe apps, but I have no personal experience of movie editing or music production. If you were ever interested, I can get you their 'Pro Apps Bundle' for £200 including Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Motion, Compressor and MainStage as I still somehow have my student discount UniDays verification for Apple that I could temporarily hand you over.

Yeah Apple have stupid pricing on the upgrades for SSD and RAM, and the whole being soldered in brings so many issues for data recovery and stuff. But, in saying that they're effectively the fastest SSDs in any laptop you can buy right now which definitely helps performance all round.

I miss my old mid-2012 unibody MacBook Pro, I owned it the longest of any Mac for 3 years before the keyboard broke and because of Apple's refusal to allow genuine parts for DIY repairs couldn't do it myself. Tried many Chinese copy parts but 3 in a row failed after a day so I gave up. They wanted £360 to fix it at the Apple Store which I considered but then they told me the work would only have a 90 day warranty which I wasn't happy for that price. So I sold it for parts, but I miss that model. I had the DVD drive swapped out for a hard drive and 16GB RAM and an SSD. Those were the days!!! Lol

I went for 512GB SSD on this MB Pro so it'll do me well for the next few years. With iCloud maybe longer term even.

So far the M1 is good, can't see any issue with it. It emulates Intel software better than the i5 2017 MacBook Pro I had could, that's saying something!
 
I did that in September-November using Windows and an iPhone XR, the OneDrive app is okay on iPhone but it isn't as well integrated as the Files app, and then to use OneDrive via the Files app lacks all of the good OneDrive features like Personal Vault etc.


Yeah Apple have stupid pricing on the upgrades for SSD and RAM, and the whole being soldered in brings so many issues for data recovery and stuff. But, in saying that they're effectively the fastest SSDs in any laptop you can buy right now which definitely helps performance all round.

I went for 512GB SSD on this MB Pro so it'll do me well for the next few years. With iCloud maybe longer term even.

So far the M1 is good, can't see any issue with it. It emulates Intel software better than the i5 2017 MacBook Pro I had could, that's saying something!

You seem to be fan boying a bit too much for any reasonable discussion on the matter, the main reason that Apple moved to using Intel Processors is because there own previous power PC processors could not keep up.

It is early days but in this instance Apple are a software company and so they can tailor their own software specifically to work on their own processors in essence they can make their processors look good in any specific situation.

£3200 on an Apple Laptop is insanity for something that can be achieved with a sub £1000 PC laptop.

You can make all the arguments in the world but when it comes down to a £2200 price difference then your going to have to work very hard to justify that. most people will buy a MacBook because they want to look good sat in Starbucks working on their screen play, blog or composing the perfect picture from Instagram.
Friends of mine who are graphic designers in london ditched Apple long ago because of the rising costs and as they all use Adobe creative cloud these days they can use pc or Mac just as easily, but save a fortune....
 
You seem to be fan boying a bit too much for any reasonable discussion on the matter, the main reason that Apple moved to using Intel Processors is because there own previous power PC processors could not keep up.

It is early days but in this instance Apple are a software company and so they can tailor their own software specifically to work on their own processors in essence they can make their processors look good in any specific situation.

£3200 on an Apple Laptop is insanity for something that can be achieved with a sub £1000 PC laptop.

You can make all the arguments in the world but when it comes down to a £2200 price difference then your going to have to work very hard to justify that. most people will buy a MacBook because they want to look good sat in Starbucks working on their screen play, blog or composing the perfect picture from Instagram.
Friends of mine who are graphic designers in london ditched Apple long ago because of the rising costs and as they all use Adobe creative cloud these days they can use pc or Mac just as easily, but save a fortune....

I definitely am / was recently way too much of an Apple fanboy for sure. But I'm growing increasingly critical of Apple and have had a gripe with their pricing and ways for a while now. Last year, I tried to break away from it completely. First was Windows and an iPhone, then it was doing a really radical experiment of using a Samsung Note 20 Ultra 5G to be my 'only PC' outside of work thanks to DeX etc., like I've invested a lot of time trying to ditch Apple to be fair.

I know you can build a more powerful PC on paper than any Mac at any price, and the comparisons definitely make Apple look silly. There's definitely no defending Apple's stupid prices for the upgrades when you need to configure it up. But I will stand by the point of how - due to the optimisation you mentioned - of the hardware / software Macs have always been more than capable for said tasks, usually media creation and things.

Apple have definitely mastered some elements, the SSDs, the displays (look at the MacBook Air, no PC near that price range has a comparable screen for colour depth, richness, brightness, antiglare for a glossy finish etc). Now, I know that's only one detail and not the most important, but that. and the trackpads. The battery life. The physical build quality, only the Surface line comes close. - You've got to hand it to them, they have some things nailed.

But yes, there's incompatibility (probably going to be worse with the M1), there's the pricing - which only ever goes up, especially with Tim Cook, there's the raw power which never will compare price/performance wise.

The industry was skeptical and critical of the M1 chip, but it does seem that - for the price and class of laptops - these are some of the best mobile chips you can buy. That's when you take into account the full picture, I mean my Macs have always been hot to the touch and fans spinning full with the Minecraft launcher open. Now, I can be on Fortnite (which didn't work on the 2017 model, was like a slideshow) without fans until about 10 minutes in.

That's all on Apple's first attempt at a chip for the Mac, on their lowest end laptops. The leap over the last models is insane, they're a smart enough company to know not to go so far now, that the next few years will have minimal gains compared to this, so I have to wonder what's up their sleeve. Especially with the 16" models.

I seriously looked at the likes of the Dell XPS and HP Spectre / Envy (can't remember which was the higher sub brand). But when you opt for the options of even the entry level MacBook Pro, you're still paying the £1200+ mark and usually there'll be a weak spot, like a poor trackpad or screen that's still dull.

Tl;dr: I know Apple has its faults, but the new chips are impressive and if this keeps up, I think they'll catch up to even high performing PCs in the next 5-10 years. Something Intel would never have facilitated.

I could write for hours on this (I've been banned from multiple Apple forums for these discussions - surprisingly they're full of Apple haters lol). So apologies for anyone who is annoyed having to scroll past all this lol
 
I have a 2012 MacBook Pro 13" Its had the memory upgraded to 16Gig of Crucual and the hard drive is now a 1TB SSD from Crucial. It never feels slow and continues to work well.

Until yesterday, the only fault has been the silly ribbon cable that connects the hard drive. It's silly because there are too many sharp folds around the chassis. None of which would be needed of the disc was fitted the other way up. At least the genuine part was no costly.

I've fixed that before! It should be a relatively easy to find part on eBay for a few £ and an easy repair.

The PC I used late last year I upgraded too with 16GB RAM and a Crucial 512GB SSD. I really enjoyed being able to do the upgrades again, something I'll always miss going forward.

Just like with cars, all the parts are getting increasingly made into a single assembly that's just produced to spec. I know it gives us insane performance gains and whatnot, but it's a shame when it comes to repair and enthusiast upgrades that we lose out. Price to be paid, I suppose!

Edit: added a photo from 2016 when we did the rebuild of the gearbox on my Panda, the 2012 MBP was there to refer to Fiat Forum and some PDF instructions from eLearn!! That laptop got me through my A-Levels and first year of Uni, really wish I kept it around but I was so poor at the time I ended up selling it. Good times!
 

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I definitely am / was recently way too much of an Apple fanboy for sure.
Which clouds any common sense.


I know you can build a more powerful PC on paper than any Mac at any price, and the comparisons definitely make Apple look silly.
Both on and off paper. Lets be honest here, We're only talking laptops, apple make terrible work stations, and if you wanted to throw £5k at a PC you'd have something likely more powerful than the £40k Mac versions you can spec up on the apple configuration tool. Mobile processors always compromise on performance for battery life, at least Apple laptops Always do. Where as there are still the odd AlienWare or Legion Laptop that throw a desk top Processor in there and they will totally blitz anything with a mobile CPU,

Macs have always been more than capable for said tasks, usually media creation and things.
Total myth in my view, these days any company that makes software only for use on a mac limits its audience and so any professional level software for a Mac you can also buy for a PC and the world these days is powered by PC.... lets be honest it always has been.
Now many software packages are realising there power by pushing massive amounts of processing power through unused GPUs which Apple laptops don't tend to have, the M1 is a System on chip which means it does everything, where as the likes of intel might have some intel graphics on the chip but then throw in an Nvidia GPU with masses of extra processing power. The likes of many 3d Programs love to use GPU power and the More GPUs the better, which is why people put multiple graphics cards in workstation PC's, do you have any idea what that costs to do on any sort of mac?

Apple have definitely mastered some elements, the SSDs, the displays (look at the MacBook Air, no PC near that price range has a comparable screen for colour depth, richness, brightness, antiglare for a glossy finish etc). Now, I know that's only one detail and not the most important, but that. and the trackpads. The battery life. The physical build quality,

For the costs they have to at least make things look better on the surface, but what does an all aluminium body make in terms of difference in performance, compared to a plastic cased laptop, you just pay more.

I never use a track pad, hate them can't stand them and you'll be hard pressed to find any serious professional who does anything significant on a track pad, Get yourself an external mouse what ever you're using.
Apple used to be highly regarded for there screens, but they use screens that really are no better than anything else and in professional circles if creating and you want really accurate colours on your work station computer you don't buy an Apple monitor.

Apple don't make anything for themselves, bear that in mind, the monitors are usually made by Samsung or sharp, The Memory chips for RAM and SSD are all made by the same factories, its just Apple solder them to the boards in factories they contract to make there laptops, iPhones are made by the same Chinese companies that make Samsung phones, there is nothing special in the way an laptop is nailed together.

At least if I want a bigger SSD in my laptop I can just fit one and not have to go to the expense of buying a whole new laptop, actually with this laptop, its do big I took the DVD drive out (which no one uses these days) and I have put another HDD caddy in, so when prices come down some more I'll be treating it to a second 2TB SSD.

how much is 4TB in an apple laptop?


The industry was skeptical and critical of the M1 chip,

It still is and has put a lot of people off the cheaper M1 powered laptops from apple, More expensive Intel powered machines will still sell, but the cost of an M1 mac means people are moving to Windows to stick with intel power and as you've pointed out the Surface line are very capable machines.
Microsoft even have there own "Microsoft store" a few shops up from the flagship apple store on Regent Street in London

but it does seem that - for the price and class of laptops - these are some of the best mobile chips you can buy.

That's all on Apple's first attempt at a chip for the Mac, on their lowest end laptops. The leap over the last models is insane, they're a smart enough company to know not to go so far now, that the next few years will have minimal gains compared to this, so I have to wonder what's up their sleeve. Especially with the 16" models.
I'm not arguing they are bad, I have no experiance with the M1 specifically, but they are not any better than the best from intel, what they are is Apple throwing their toys out of the pram about having to rely on intel, who don't favor apple over any other company that buys chips in bulk.

You can't say this is apples first attempt they have been making these chips for years for iPads and phones, they use the ARM architecture which can be traced back all the way to the BBC Micro....

It will be interesting to see what they do, if uptake of the new chips is bad then Apple might end up ditching the M1 entirely? If its acceptable they might carry on using them in lower end machines.

I honestly can't see them ditching intel at the moment for there £3k+ laptops and machines being used by high end users.

If you look into it you'll see that Apple have already had problems with people bricking their laptops because of issues with the USB ports and other issues with the processors.

I know Apple has its faults, but the new chips are impressive and if this keeps up, I think they'll catch up to even high performing PCs in the next 5-10 years. Something Intel would never have facilitated.

I could write for hours on this (I've been banned from multiple Apple forums for these discussions - surprisingly they're full of Apple haters lol). So apologies for anyone who is annoyed having to scroll past all this lol

People use to say exactly the same for years about the Power PC based macs of the 90s and early 2000's that the next G..... would wipe the floor with intel, it never happened and eventually apple gave up and switched to intel to stay competitive.
Now thats not to say they don't have some aces up their sleeves but the main thing I can say about apple is they have not been making very good choices and decisions over the last 10 years, they have lost a lot of there customers over to Android and windows, and they have alienated a lot of people with there constant need to feel they know what people want, hell they even removed the SD card slot from the macbook at one point, How absolutely idiotic was that!!

The latest iPhone came with a USB-type C to lightning cable and no charging brick..... yet no one has a USB-type C charger! To do attach anything now to a mac you'll need a special dongle that will be specific to apple and cost anything upwards of £100.

You could go round and round like this all day, it wouldn't get you anywhere because all you're doing is Fan boying, you've not applied any common sense or logic to any of your arguments, you'll just claim its the best add Infinium contrary to all other information out there.

It all goes back to when you use to do the same about your panda... your panda was the best car in the world and you could not understand why anyone would buy anything else, why they would need anything more and use to claim that anyone buying anything other than a panda was only doing it for the looks...... then you went out and bought another car for the looks and gadgets....

You could turn it around and argue that your prejudice against German car manufacturers and people who prerfer to guy a German car, because they "know what they are getting" they are "familiar with the product" they are "buying it for the looks or to look good in other peoples eyes" all arguments that I could throw at you about apple, you don't actually need an Mac over any other laptop, there is no benefit to an apple laptop and nothing to gain, its just your preference as you're obsessed with the brand and looking good.

Other people prefer to shop about for a better deal. (y)
 
Which clouds any common sense.



Both on and off paper. Lets be honest here, We're only talking laptops, apple make terrible work stations, and if you wanted to throw £5k at a PC you'd have something likely more powerful than the £40k Mac versions you can spec up on the apple configuration tool. Mobile processors always compromise on performance for battery life, at least Apple laptops Always do. Where as there are still the odd AlienWare or Legion Laptop that throw a desk top Processor in there and they will totally blitz anything with a mobile CPU,

Total myth in my view, these days any company that makes software only for use on a mac limits its audience and so any professional level software for a Mac you can also buy for a PC and the world these days is powered by PC.... lets be honest it always has been.
Now many software packages are realising there power by pushing massive amounts of processing power through unused GPUs which Apple laptops don't tend to have, the M1 is a System on chip which means it does everything, where as the likes of intel might have some intel graphics on the chip but then throw in an Nvidia GPU with masses of extra processing power. The likes of many 3d Programs love to use GPU power and the More GPUs the better, which is why people put multiple graphics cards in workstation PC's, do you have any idea what that costs to do on any sort of mac?



For the costs they have to at least make things look better on the surface, but what does an all aluminium body make in terms of difference in performance, compared to a plastic cased laptop, you just pay more.

I never use a track pad, hate them can't stand them and you'll be hard pressed to find any serious professional who does anything significant on a track pad, Get yourself an external mouse what ever you're using.
Apple used to be highly regarded for there screens, but they use screens that really are no better than anything else and in professional circles if creating and you want really accurate colours on your work station computer you don't buy an Apple monitor.

Apple don't make anything for themselves, bear that in mind, the monitors are usually made by Samsung or sharp, The Memory chips for RAM and SSD are all made by the same factories, its just Apple solder them to the boards in factories they contract to make there laptops, iPhones are made by the same Chinese companies that make Samsung phones, there is nothing special in the way an laptop is nailed together.

At least if I want a bigger SSD in my laptop I can just fit one and not have to go to the expense of buying a whole new laptop, actually with this laptop, its do big I took the DVD drive out (which no one uses these days) and I have put another HDD caddy in, so when prices come down some more I'll be treating it to a second 2TB SSD.

how much is 4TB in an apple laptop?




It still is and has put a lot of people off the cheaper M1 powered laptops from apple, More expensive Intel powered machines will still sell, but the cost of an M1 mac means people are moving to Windows to stick with intel power and as you've pointed out the Surface line are very capable machines.
Microsoft even have there own "Microsoft store" a few shops up from the flagship apple store on Regent Street in London

I'm not arguing they are bad, I have no experiance with the M1 specifically, but they are not any better than the best from intel, what they are is Apple throwing their toys out of the pram about having to rely on intel, who don't favor apple over any other company that buys chips in bulk.

You can't say this is apples first attempt they have been making these chips for years for iPads and phones, they use the ARM architecture which can be traced back all the way to the BBC Micro....

It will be interesting to see what they do, if uptake of the new chips is bad then Apple might end up ditching the M1 entirely? If its acceptable they might carry on using them in lower end machines.

I honestly can't see them ditching intel at the moment for there £3k+ laptops and machines being used by high end users.

If you look into it you'll see that Apple have already had problems with people bricking their laptops because of issues with the USB ports and other issues with the processors.



People use to say exactly the same for years about the Power PC based macs of the 90s and early 2000's that the next G..... would wipe the floor with intel, it never happened and eventually apple gave up and switched to intel to stay competitive.
Now thats not to say they don't have some aces up their sleeves but the main thing I can say about apple is they have not been making very good choices and decisions over the last 10 years, they have lost a lot of there customers over to Android and windows, and they have alienated a lot of people with there constant need to feel they know what people want, hell they even removed the SD card slot from the macbook at one point, How absolutely idiotic was that!!

The latest iPhone came with a USB-type C to lightning cable and no charging brick..... yet no one has a USB-type C charger! To do attach anything now to a mac you'll need a special dongle that will be specific to apple and cost anything upwards of £100.

You could go round and round like this all day, it wouldn't get you anywhere because all you're doing is Fan boying, you've not applied any common sense or logic to any of your arguments, you'll just claim its the best add Infinium contrary to all other information out there.

It all goes back to when you use to do the same about your panda... your panda was the best car in the world and you could not understand why anyone would buy anything else, why they would need anything more and use to claim that anyone buying anything other than a panda was only doing it for the looks...... then you went out and bought another car for the looks and gadgets....

You could turn it around and argue that your prejudice against German car manufacturers and people who prerfer to guy a German car, because they "know what they are getting" they are "familiar with the product" they are "buying it for the looks or to look good in other peoples eyes" all arguments that I could throw at you about apple, you don't actually need an Mac over any other laptop, there is no benefit to an apple laptop and nothing to gain, its just your preference as you're obsessed with the brand and looking good.

Other people prefer to shop about for a better deal. (y)

Ah come on man, I thought we were friends now?! :p Don't take what I'm saying overly seriously.

I do love Apple and I'm only stating that because that will make my preferences a little bit biased. But I'm being clear about the fact that Apple has it's flaws and frustrations, even from my point of view as someone who has tried a lot of the competition and went full circle, that's all.

Razer and Alienware are okay at what they do, gaming, but from what I can gather my gaming friends with their PC builds say they're as bad as Apple in some of their choices. And they said for the money, building a PC would be a better way to go. But I'm not interested in gaming personally too much.

The aluminium is functional, the body of the computers are effectively (to some extent) extended heatsinks and help with the cooling. The rigidity and lack of flex usually features in reviews so I presume it has some impact on experience / use. I think it comes down to being able to make them so thin, yet not flimsy - they've achieved that. The trackpad is truly on another planet though, the best on Windows right now is 'usable' even on the most premium models. I use an MX Master mouse at the desk, but have never had any issue as Apple pretty much nailed the trackpad in 2008. All I'm saying is, little things like that they have done well at, and some users like me genuinely do find it hard to move to alternatives.

The monitors, I don't know, that £6,000 Pro Display XDR is pretty untouchable and actually good value in terms of what it deliver. Though that's in a different universe to anything I'll ever need. It's probably unlikely anybody really 'needs it' though.

I'll be a bit cheeky here and say, yes, you can upgrade your laptops SSD, but I bet the one in my Mac is faster ;) (I'll need to Google the metrics to back that up if you bite back?!). Apple's pricing though is insanely out of touch, and it amazes me that they can afford to offer it because I assume nobody wants to throw money away like that, when good Thunderbolt interfaced external SSDs exist.

The M1 will be the slowest / worst SOC for the Mac Apple ever make - btw, I only said it was their first Mac chip, I know they've made them in the iPhone since the A4. But even Microsoft is getting more serious about working on its own chips for its devices because it wants to exceed what Intel can deliver on.

Back in 2005/6, Intel was truly on top of the world. It doesn't surprise me Motorola who made the PPC chips couldn't keep up. Intel really has been the best for a long time and met and exceeded its roadmaps, but 5 years of missing its targets and falling behind and I can see why Apple and Microsoft et al. are looking elsewhere.

The Macs in 2016-now have been terrible in terms of overheating and thermal throttling, that was I believe because of Intel making promises it didn't deliver on. It's hard I would imagine for companies of this scale to keep up their development without taking their partners words for things and then to be let down, definitely as you say has let to a lot of people ditching the Mac in droves.

I was really really skeptical of the M1 and originally said last June I'd never buy another Mac because it's just Apple trying to control and limit us even more. But when I saw the reviews (and am yet to see any real downers about it) I had confidence. And I don't think they're going to go back on this one. Intel is thinking of splitting into two companies at the minute, one for manufacturing and one for design? It's not just Apple, they're genuinely in the stages of a massive decline and now the secret is out. AMD is winning in that space though. I hope Intel comes back, but the M1 and Apple are a true threat to them. Especially if the impossible does happen, and the more powerful Macs with the more powerful future Apple chips do catch up to the PC, honestly, I know it's laughable right now, but who knows?

The SD removal bothers me every week. I hate using an adapter and then a dongle to import dash cam footage, takes ages.

So please see, I am agreeing and criticising Apple where I agree it's due, but of course, I do stand by a lot of things I think they got right too :) - I'm not saying they're the best, I'm just saying there's a few areas they've nailed it and others they haven't. I think that's fair?


I never thought the Panda was the best car in the world, and I'm aware of all the arguments / people who could argue the opposite. Unlike the Mac vs PC, I was clearly in the minority there! I just liked it personally and was willing to overlook a lot of the things other people weren't... I say that, well, I didn't really have the choice! lol But I do love the Fiats still! I wouldn't say I love the DS3 as much to be honest, it's great but it's more of 'just a car', you know?

The German car thing is exactly like the Apple thing, I agree 100%. People do buy them just for the name / rep - some of it is well deserved and other aspects exaggerated. I'm sure they meet peoples expectations a lot more than they leave a bad taste in anyones mouth anyway, hence repeat custom and loyalty. I think that's the case with Apple too. I mean, to poo-poo on everything Apple does, is no better than how I would try to do that about VAG years ago.

Ps, on that whole thing, think of me going on about the Panda the way somebody goes on about their favourite football team, of course their team's not the best in the world or doing anything spectacular, but that doesn't mean they can't dress up and surround themselves with an arena full of other fans and paint their faces and sing and dance as if it were true. Of course it's not! :D


Now, I think I've been fair and acknowledged a lot of your points and agreed with loads, though I definitely 'Think Different' (eh?!) about some parts. I reckon that's a decent discussion and not being overly deluded on my part?
 
WOW! I'm a computer dinosaur and pretty ignorant about most "techie" stuff but these last two posts have left me feeling emotionally drained!

Sorry about that... I didn't think it would go that way!


I guess some things in life will always be a debate, Petrol vs. Diesel, Coke vs. Pepsi, PC vs. Mac :devil:
 
I miss that guy, he was the English version of Jock :D

The posts were similar in length to the above...but contained nothing related to apple products.

Happier times :ROFLMAO:

One did not merely read a post from the the beard, you had to settle down with a cup of coffee and chair lest you ran out of stamina before the end.
 
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WOW! I'm a computer dinosaur and pretty ignorant about most "techie" stuff but these last two posts have left me feeling emotionally drained!
Don't feel you have to read through it all. Once it started I just skipped past.
I've got two laptops, a netbook, a desktop PC, all running Windows, and small Android tablet, rarely used. All getting old, all working fine, no reason to consider replacement of any of them.
Having been introduced to PCs, and learnt to fight them, and having been shown Macs a few times, I have no reason to start learning the different ways the Macs work. Especially at Apple prices.
Sorry about that... I didn't think it would go that way!


I guess some things in life will always be a debate, Petrol vs. Diesel, Coke vs. Pepsi, PC vs. Mac :devil:

Coke or Pepsi, choose whichever you like, both will destroy your PC or Mac equally well. As will red wine, tea, coffee, etc. Water does well too.:D
 
Just looked back at some dash cam footage from Sunday on a dual carriageway here. There was a guy in a Passat CC with a Southern Ireland license plate, he was all over the lanes when he had the chance and passing people only to go slower.

So I thought, screw that. Went into the fast lane and caught up , he started to indicate left and right frantically as if to say 'don't pass'... he veered off towards my lane but realised I was coming quicker than he must have assumed.

I looked left and could see the nose of his car sort of begin to speed up with mines but the DS shot off somehow a good bit quicker and he began to lag further behind, but I could see he was trying!!! Think it peaked at 93mph.

He must have the 140hp engine in the CC to get owned by a girls car.

He seemed genuinely to have no idea why I wanted to pass.

The roads down south are strange... they're way wider than they need to be, and it seems to be a thing to stick toward the left of the ultra-wide lane, and have faster cars pass you all over the show... I think they forget when the come up here.. Either that, or he simply wasn't paying any attention.

Any way for me to share the clip with you all? 48MB but doubt I can upload that much
 
You may consider editing your post re:speed and not posting your video .
People have been prosecuted with their video used as evidence.
 
Our 1.2 Panda is great for annoying boy racer hot hatch drivers. They try to barge by on the straights but slow excessively on bends. I keep my speed up and easily lose them on the bends. They absolutely hate that a "rubbish" Panda can so easily beat them.
 
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It's probably old age and an almost total lack of testosterone these days, but I just don't engage with this sort of thing and haven't for quite some years. I'm not a "slow" driver, I don't obstruct others who want to press on and I like to make speedy progress when safe to do so without exceeding specified limits. I try to make smooth driving an aim with moderate acceleration and using momentum where possible (judging traffic lights etc) I find it makes for a relaxing and pleasant driving experience and, especially on longer trips, I find you arrive much less tired at the other end. I think the big "secret" is not to allow yourself to become annoyed or upset by the "offending idiot". Just hang back slightly and let him/her crucify him/her self.
 
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