https://www.fiatforum.com/leisure-lounge/319918-dash-camera-thread-videos-28.html

Post 410 & 411
"The number of times I've been in that situation & thought 'if only I were driving an old shed...'

THEN, when i was driving an old shed, something inside me seemed to kick in & I would still hit the brakes - self preservation?
And I believe these nobs know it & rely on us all not wanting insurance aggro, not wanting to take a chance that they are uninsured itinerants etc."

"but is there a subtle change in psyche once you have a dash cam?
Some of the dash cam shots I have seen (and I don't mean this one particularly) seem to suggest that the driver is almost hoping something WILL happen to in the knowledge that they have the evidence to prove they are in the right, rather making very sure that nothing does happen"

Every so oft I stumble into the world of the russian footage on YT & can't help feeling many of their accidents could be avoided. (?)

You see the car pulling out of a side road or the car hurtling across your path as the driver has lost control. I notice many of the camera drivers steer to where the car is going to be rather than where the car was - and so, trying to avoid?
So, are they aiming for where the car will be on purpose in the hope that their footage will secure them an insurance payout?

Example

At 2:22, 4x4 pulls out of side road, cam driver pulls over onto wrong side of road & still hits the 4x4.
Or 3:51 - the coach comes onto your side of the road, cam driver actively swerves into his path ?


Admittedly, I have seen other vids where drivers do swerve to where the car was & they end up losing it against a lamppost or similar fixed object & the bad driver simply carries on with an undamaged car!

The 4x4 one I'd guess they were swerving out hoping that he would see them and stop. To keep going on the same path might be straight into the side of them.

I actually read and watched through the whole of the other tread re. dash cam footage last Friday night... just to see what people posted in terms of footage and opinions, as I have contemplated putting footage up to shame / educate etc.

I must admit the twist around post #410 /#411 suggesting that people with dash cams are hoping something will happen or could/would somehow orchestrate/stage situations for suitable footage was un expected, but I can see why the suggestion has cropped up.

From my perspective I was glad to receive a dash cam last Christmas off my Sister. Although our roads are not quite as bad as what the Russian footage makes theirs out to be, I think a dash cam is a good 'witness' in the event of any incidents, for example the 'cash for crash' scams.

I personally have had some interesting footage of close encounters, closer than I would have liked, but avoided the inevitable. I think, if anything. having the dash cam has a calming effect as it will show faults in your own driving as well as that of any other parties.

For the last few months I've only driven my landrover (the ex has my car :'( ) and I have to say that I am shocked by how bad the quality of motorway driving in this country is getting, in the car it wouldn't bother me quick stab of go pedal and I'm out round them back in and on my way. In the landy I can't do that so need to predict what the numpties are going to do next etc.

On Friday some middle lane tit decided that when ever I pulled into the middle lane he'd accelerate away, fine no longer my problem I'd overtake the slower vehicle and move back to the left hand lane few minutes later same again, annoying as he was always just in the way for a few seconds but then he'd sort himself out. That was until we hit a slight incline. I pulled out to overtake a truck and he was still hogging the middle lane and just had headlights and shakey fists with another driver over middle lane hogging. So I've pulled out to overtake the truck, there's more trucks in front so it's not worth me pulling back in, however tit boy decides he wants to prove a point and for no reason at all stabs his brakes (nothing in front of him) so I lift of and give him twice as much room as I think is required at 60mph, he accelerates away, so I plant my foot and catch up maintaining the same distance, he once again slows right down and the left hand lane is clear, we are at the top of the hill and starting to go down it so I cam now cruise at 70mph, he simply wouldn't move to the left, too many cars in the right hand lane, so I flashed and gesterured for him to move left, he waved his arm out of the window and started to slam on the anchors..... a gap opened and I pulled into the right hand lane and got level with him, then he wouldn't let me pass and matched my speed, giving me various hand movements suggesting all manor of rude things, the left hand lane was still clear but yet he still wouldn't move back, I tried to brake to slot back in behind but he too braked, then I'd accelerate and he'd do the same. Another car who had also fallen foul many miles back of this tit decided enough was enough and was right up his bumper on main beams and full on horn. So with the other car up his rear I braked and dropped back in behind them both, the car overtook tit boy and I was back where I started....... tit then decided to pull in front of me and start serious brake testing me, to the point I slowed down to 35 with my hazzards on, he was still refusing to give in. At this point I very clearly made the decision in my head that if I had a camera that had caught everything I wouldn't be so keen to avoid the incident, so I mounted my phone the wrong way round in the holder and started to reccord, I gave tit boy a quick 2 second flash and blast of the horn and pointed to the phone, he shot off into the distance never to be seen again......

So in answer to the big question, in this instance tit boy would have had a landrover buried in his boot and judging by his temper / anger he'd have tried to have a go at me, all of which would be caught on camera, to be fair even without a proper camera / phone I was getting prepared for him to eat my front bumper and just deal with the fall out afterwards.

I've seen quite a few of these Russian video compilations on YT and it seems to me that the vast majority are just horrendously bad drivers. Not just behaving like a k**b as in Jenks' post but they're just driving way, way too fast and appearing to have no anticipation or perception of risk.

As for seeming to drive at the approaching vehicle, I think it's more likely that, in common with many in this country, the driver's reactions are such that he's aiming to miss the oncoming vehicle based on where it was when he perceived the risk in the first place. If you watch a member of the public trying to correct an oversteer skid, they're almost invariably behind the movement of the car. They don't steer to predict the next movement but instead react to the last one. Some of the collisions are at sufficient speed that serious injury is a real possibility so I would have thought the risk of actually needing compensation is too great to chance.

As for having a dash cam, I'm not sure how much that will affect behaviour in some drivers. As for the cash n crash merchants I think it's more likely that it can be used to catch them out after the event, although some cyclists have commented that when having a go-pro type device on their helmet confrontational drivers have backed off, so maybe there's something in it. On a cycle helmet it's pretty easy to see a camera but a lot harder on a dashboard. There are bus companies that have 360 degree cameras fitted inside and out and have stickers on display that say as much, so maybe that's the answer.

It scares me that we are sharing the roads with so many horrendous drivers now from all over the world, as well as our home-grown ones.
I read in the papaer today that the number of drink drive cases last year rose alarmingly.
I also read that the Polish monster who with his girlfriend have murdered her son in Coventry, had been done for drink driving several times here since 2005.
At risk of being attacked for raisng the issue, I would like to see more details of why we have so many more dd cases now having been on decline for years.

pooroldcodger said:

It scares me that we are sharing the roads with so many horrendous drivers now from all over the world, as well as our home-grown ones.
I read in the papaer today that the number of drink drive cases last year rose alarmingly.
I also read that the Polish monster who with his girlfriend have murdered her son in Coventry, had been done for drink driving several times here since 2005.
At risk of being attacked for raisng the issue, I would like to see more details of why we have so many more dd cases now having been on decline for years.

Click to expand...

I think the decline has been a bit of a red herring. I'd say less a decline, more less being caught. Remember traffic police numbers were greatly reduced over past few years.

Combine that with rising population, rising motorists, rising depression and you've got a sure fire winner for drink driving.

Sorry - I was so shocked by this appalling driving that I wandered off topic.
Generally speaking it is better to jump on the brakes rather than try to avoid impact, if in doing so will take you in to the path of on-coming traffic. But, in the split-second who is to say what is best on a case-by case basis? What if you have a petrol tanker a yard off your back bumper? Would you risk the rear impact then?
Either way those examples from (I assume) Russia explain why they have such an awful safety record.

pooroldcodger said:

It scares me that we are sharing the roads with so many horrendous drivers now from all over the world, as well as our home-grown ones.
I read in the papaer today that the number of drink drive cases last year rose alarmingly.
I also read that the Polish monster who with his girlfriend have murdered her son in Coventry, had been done for drink driving several times here since 2005.
At risk of being attacked for raisng the issue, I would like to see more details of why we have so many more dd cases now having been on decline for years.

Click to expand...

Maybe it is because our roads are filling with drivers from cultures who see nothing wrong with dd?
No idea what the French view on dd is but they just love a bottle of wine with every meal.
If you've spent your life being drunk, you end up not knowing what drunk feels like, it becomes the norm.

I notice in a great many russian dashcam vids that after a prang, most drivers just seem to sit there - is that because they are half cut? - That would certainly explain the apalling standard of driving - blasting through red lights, overtaking despite the obvious oncoming traffic etc etc.

iirc, there was a car prog that did a test to see if cannabis (?) impaired your driving.
They took a guy who was a regular user, asked him to abstain for a few hours (overnight?) & asked him to drive a course. They then asked him to smoke a spliff then drive the same course - the difference was barely noticeable. Completely missing out the fact that the chemicals from his constant use would take days if not weeks to flush out of his sytem, so he would have been 'under the influence' anyway when he first drove the course & the spliff before the second try would simply have been a 'top up'

sludgeguts said:

THEN, when i was driving an old shed, something inside me seemed to kick in & I would still hit the brakes - self preservation?

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I can't see how it could ever be right not to do everything possible to avoid an accident, however bad another persons driving might be.

jrkitching said:

I can't see how it could ever be right not to do everything possible to avoid an accident, however bad another persons driving might be.

Click to expand...

I agree, however, we are not talking about what is 'right'.
We all have that good/bad side, the Jeckyl/Hyde inside us. for most of us, we can make that nano-second choice to supress the dark side, almost without knowing we have done it.
For others, it might flash through your mind.
Others might even have to think it over for a second - or two.
And then there are the ones who will cause havoc on the roads simply because you wandered into their lane by 1", causing them to lift off the throttle for half a second & once they manage to catch up, overtake dangerously & stop you, they want to beat seven shades of sh!t out of you.
If you can make a choice to not go and teach someone the error of their ways, you must surely be able to make the choice to hit or miss?

That car wandering into my lane, they are travelling the same speed as me, I have a dashcam so it will show they were at fault. Any impact is going to be low speed (their sideways motion). My balljoint/bushes have been knocking for a while, the tracking is out, that tyre is starting to wear...
His wandering into my lane caused a prang, my car is driveable so no rush to repair, in the couple of weeks it takes for the insurance to sort out repair centre etc "oh look, my tyre is wearing & I can hear a knocking coming from that side...". What is, in reality, a simple scuff (easily fixed with a rub over with T-cut), turns out to be top & bottom bushes, new balljoint, tracking & new tyre - all paid for by the other guy's insurance. Oh, and can I feel that twinge in my neck? Today's compo culture is making (some) people into 'monsters'.

It's not right - however, there are many thousands of uninsured drivers, thousands of drink/drug drivers, thousands driving on their mobile etc etc - that's not right. If these people can actively make the choice to break the law, how many would actively not avoid the crash? In fact, we know there are some - the cash for crash brigade.