Shocks or springs?

[AnthonyH]

So two to three years ago? They are still comparative youngsters - Properly stored tyres stored in conditions of humidity, heat etc where they suffer minimum degradation are allowed to be sold as "new" until they are 5 years old I seem to remember (may have changed since I made a living at it though) One big factor worth always remembering about tyres though is that the rubber oxidizes and heat and sun etc exacerbate this so the conditions in which it's been stored have a lot to do with it if the tyre is not fresh out of the factory. A brand new tyre needs to "break in" by not subjecting it to extremes of use for about 100 miles or so. This allows the casing in particular to become more supple and the tread surface to "work harden" to a certain extent (it's much more complicated than this and I'm not a chemist or tyre designer but we were always taught to advise customers to drive with care and not subject the tyre to violent braking, cornering or acceleration for the first 100 miles or so (unless there's no option of course). By the way, just while we're on the subject of advice, I've was involved in performance tyre testing back in the 1970's - endurance, grip, etc etc. and found that tyres with less than 2mm of tread depth suffered a considerable reduction in grip on wet road surfaces compared to identical tyres with more depth of tread. It's all due to the tyre's ability to displace the water and allow the rubber to get through to the road surface. Of course things vary in degree between makes of tyre and car. Weight of the vehicle, age and width of the tyre and how much water is on the road surface all introduce variable factors but once you drop below the 2mm things become much more dodgy in the wet! It's noticeable how much more sharply the graph line dipped at that point.

When I bought my EVO i was caught off guard going around a corner in the rain. It momentarily lost grip, it was very unnerving, and upon inspection the tyre that had lost traction had less than 2mm of tread. I got that changed sharpish!

As your tyres age keep an eagle eye out for sidewall cracks and cracks around the bead area. Also look into the tread grooves for cracking at the base of the grooves. Because the surface will oxidize much more quickly mild cracking which is surface only, especially on sidewalls, can probably be lived with but if the cracking anywhere exposes part of the internal cords of the tyre it needs to be scrapped immediately - in fact it's an offence and the boys in blue will be very unhappy about it. Oh, and remember that tyres can, and often do, degrade or suffer damage on the inner sidewall where you can't easily see it. So every now and again take a good look at the inner sidewalls of your tyres. This is especially good advice if the vehicle is often driven on vary poor surfaces or frequently mounts the curb.

I have a tyre on my EVO that has cracking around the rim, i've been thinking about a switch to the spare tyre. That one doesn't have any cracking but it has only about 3mm of tread, so I've been slacking on it. Should I switch that ?

The choice is 5mm tread with cracking on the rim, or 3mm tread and no cracking.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I'm on a bit of a roll here so I think I'll just keep going - hope you haven't all fallen asleep.

Thinking specifically about tread rubber and grip, which is not to say that casing construction plays no roll, then grip between the face of the tread rubber and the road, whilst chemically complicated - in the racing division our chief chemist was one of the most revered people in the department, many placed him in the category of "wizard! - basically comes down to how "soft" it is. It's not difficult to understand that a "soft rubber will grip better than a hard one but then the problem becomes that the softer the rubber the quicker it wears. This is where the "magic" of the chemical compounder comes in as substances can be introduced to make a soft "grippy" rubber become more resistant to wear. There are limits to this though so generally speaking, where road tyres are concerned, the ones with softer compound tread rubber will grip better but wear quicker - it's all a matter of balance and trade off.

Now, if you think about this, it raises an interesting conundrum. Tyres are expensive things to buy so we all want them to last as long as possible don't we? However, if a tyre lasts a very long time then it's structure will degrade to the point of being either totally unusable or unsafe to use. So the question becomes where to strike the balance? I think a good baseline for someone who drives sensibly but wants to keep their tyres for as long as possible is to never exceed ten years in age. (I'm going to be submerged in argument now and I'm only saying this might be one of several factors to consider) In my experience though, if a tyre even gets to 10 years without failing regular inspections for aging, wear and damage, then it's doing pretty well. By the time it's 10 years old though the tread rubber will be really aged, much "harder" and far less able to grip the road surface than when it was new. So for this reason alone, if you're interested in safety, I wouldn't use a tyre that's older than this. In fact I'm not being contentious with this 10 year recommendation as many tyre manufacturers use this as a yardstick and for good reason following extensive testing.

Let's extrapolate this then. How many miles do you cover in a year? There's absolutely no point in seeking out tyres capable, or reputed to be capable, of covering "starship" mileages if you are just doing local trips all the time. I remember, back when I had my old Mk2 Astra SXI that I bought a set of Chinese made tyres which had a reputation for longevity. Despite my pretty spirited driving style and the high mileages I was traveling (somewhere around 60 to 70 miles daily round trip) they just didn't seem to wear. They were absolutely lethal in the wet thought - and great fun (I was stupid and young) - eventually they cracked up really badly and I ditched them with more than half the tread depth still remaining but they were like driving on ice almost before the first drops of rain hit the road!

As long as you don't go for the very cheapest "weirdly branded" product then modern tyres are all pretty good. Of course there are differences between them which you can research but it's difficult as many reports are very subjective and short on evidence. You're much better to buy a tyre with a reputation for good wet grip and then it'll probably wear out before the grip factor due to age becomes unacceptable or that the casing cracks up. Wet performance is the thing you need to be interested in because that's where the lethality exists. Most will perform well enough in the dry for any average motorist, of course some are a little better than others, but in ordinary use the difference is not going to be significant. Probably improving your reaction time by staying fit, resisting distraction and concentrating 100% on your driving and those driving around you will have a greater effect than the difference between one reasonable quality make of tyre and another. Only if you're driving something exceptionally sporty or considering track days on your road tyres, is it worth looking in depth at dry performance?

What do I do about buying tyres? Well, for many many years I bought from a very interesting outfit "Auto Image" at their Edinburgh workshop. It was an interesting place to visit as there was almost always something interesting like a Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc, etc being fitted with new rubber. I got to know them well over the years and bought all the family vehicle tyres there. Then, suddenly, pretty much overnight, they folded! For a couple of years I bounced around several suppliers often being not too happy with the service and having to return for rebalancing a wheel which had been done poorly. I was bemoaning this to the chap I know who runs our local wee Honda specialists and he said, "give Steven at City Mobile Tyres a go. He does a lot of the wee garages around here. We just call him in when needed, it's not worth buying all the gear ourselves." So I did and he's very very good. He knows a great deal about tyres and tyre fitting, His wheel balancing is excellent, we've never had a bad balance from him on any of the cars and he comes to the house as he's fully mobile, which allows me to do the removing and refitting of the wheel myself - although my boys just let him do the whole job when he goes to their houses. His prices are extremely competitive too and you know the price he's quoting you has no hidden extras - like valve and balance charges, it's "all in". If you've never tried one of these wee businesses - often they are "one man bands" - you might just hit on a good thing.

 

[AnthonyH]

I'm on a bit of a roll here so I think I'll just keep going - hope you haven't all fallen asleep.

Thinking specifically about tread rubber and grip, which is not to say that casing construction plays no roll, then grip between the face of the tread rubber and the road, whilst chemically complicated - in the racing division our chief chemist was one of the most revered people in the department, many placed him in the category of "wizard! - basically comes down to how "soft" it is. It's not difficult to understand that a "soft rubber will grip better than a hard one but then the problem becomes that the softer the rubber the quicker it wears. This is where the "magic" of the chemical compounder comes in as substances can be introduced to make a soft "grippy" rubber become more resistant to wear. There are limits to this though so generally speaking, where road tyres are concerned, the ones with softer compound tread rubber will grip better but wear quicker - it's all a matter of balance and trade off.

Now, if you think about this, it raises an interesting conundrum. Tyres are expensive things to buy so we all want them to last as long as possible don't we? However, if a tyre lasts a very long time then it's structure will degrade to the point of being either totally unusable or unsafe to use. So the question becomes where to strike the balance? I think a good baseline for someone who drives sensibly but wants to keep their tyres for as long as possible is to never exceed ten years in age. (I'm going to be submerged in argument now and I'm only saying this might be one of several factors to consider) In my experience though, if a tyre even gets to 10 years without failing regular inspections for aging, wear and damage, then it's doing pretty well. By the time it's 10 years old though the tread rubber will be really aged, much "harder" and far less able to grip the road surface than when it was new. So for this reason alone, if you're interested in safety, I wouldn't use a tyre that's older than this. In fact I'm not being contentious with this 10 year recommendation as many tyre manufacturers use this as a yardstick and for good reason following extensive testing.

Let's extrapolate this then. How many miles do you cover in a year? There's absolutely no point in seeking out tyres capable, or reputed to be capable, of covering "starship" mileages if you are just doing local trips all the time. I remember, back when I had my old Mk2 Astra SXI that I bought a set of Chinese made tyres which had a reputation for longevity. Despite my pretty spirited driving style and the high mileages I was traveling (somewhere around 60 to 70 miles daily round trip) they just didn't seem to wear. They were absolutely lethal in the wet thought - and great fun (I was stupid and young) - eventually they cracked up really badly and I ditched them with more than half the tread depth still remaining but they were like driving on ice almost before the first drops of rain hit the road!

As long as you don't go for the very cheapest "weirdly branded" product then modern tyres are all pretty good. Of course there are differences between them which you can research but it's difficult as many reports are very subjective and short on evidence. You're much better to buy a tyre with a reputation for good wet grip and then it'll probably wear out before the grip factor due to age becomes unacceptable or that the casing cracks up. Wet performance is the thing you need to be interested in because that's where the lethality exists. Most will perform well enough in the dry for any average motorist, of course some are a little better than others, but in ordinary use the difference is not going to be significant. Probably improving your reaction time by staying fit, resisting distraction and concentrating 100% on your driving and those driving around you will have a greater effect than the difference between one reasonable quality make of tyre and another. Only if you're driving something exceptionally sporty or considering track days on your road tyres, is it worth looking in depth at dry performance?

What do I do about buying tyres? Well, for many many years I bought from a very interesting outfit "Auto Image" at their Edinburgh workshop. It was an interesting place to visit as there was almost always something interesting like a Ferrari, Aston Martin, etc, etc being fitted with new rubber. I got to know them well over the years and bought all the family vehicle tyres there. Then, suddenly, pretty much overnight, they folded! For a couple of years I bounced around several suppliers often being not too happy with the service and having to return for rebalancing a wheel which had been done poorly. I was bemoaning this to the chap I know who runs our local wee Honda specialists and he said, "give Steven at City Mobile Tyres a go. He does a lot of the wee garages around here. We just call him in when needed, it's not worth buying all the gear ourselves." So I did and he's very very good. He knows a great deal about tyres and tyre fitting, His wheel balancing is excellent, we've never had a bad balance from him on any of the cars and he comes to the house as he's fully mobile, which allows me to do the removing and refitting of the wheel myself - although my boys just let him do the whole job when he goes to their houses. His prices are extremely competitive too and you know the price he's quoting you has no hidden extras - like valve and balance charges, it's "all in". If you've never tried one of these wee businesses - often they are "one man bands" - you might just hit on a good thing.

Your replies are always interesting and informative, so you shouldn't worry about the quantity you right. This forum is an antidote to some other places where a few words or sentences is considered a long reply!

I was recently told to stop using a tyre made in 2018 by a garage. It looked fine to me so I just thought they wanted some extra business, but low and behold some time later I realised it was leaking. The garage didn't know this, they just had some kind of sixth sense when to stop using a tyre.

I'm now considering getting a mobile mechanic to come and balance my tyres. I've previously posted about a DIY home balancing and came away with the idea it wasn't very practical. I don't want to go to a garage to get this done because then I will be without the car. So a mobile mechanic is a good idea. Thanks for that!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

When I bought my EVO i was caught off guard going around a corner in the rain. It momentarily lost grip, it was very unnerving, and upon inspection the tyre that had lost traction had less than 2mm of tread. I got that changed sharpish!


I have a tyre on my EVO that has cracking around the rim, i've been thinking about a switch to the spare tyre. That one doesn't have any cracking but it has only about 3mm of tread, so I've been slacking on it. Should I switch that ?

The choice is 5mm tread with cracking on the rim, or 3mm tread and no cracking.

Without seeing the tyre and being able to manipulate the crack to see how deep it is it's very difficult to advise. Can you see the age of both tyres? Even if both the same age, The one that's in the spare may just be looking better right now because it's not been in service and once fitted to the car may then develop cracks before too long?

Can you post a picture of the cracking? you could try carefully opening the crack with something like a blunt screwdriver and see how deep it goes. If it goes deep enough to expose casing cords then it's a definite bin job. As long as the 3mm is across the whole tread and you don't expect too much from it, it should be sound.

Two things to think on here. Always best to have two tyres which match as near as possible on the front. So, of course best if the same make but at least similar tread pattern and wear. If you have a very worn tyre on one side and a nearly new one on the other then, apart from grip problems you're also going to force the differential to work harder than it should to account for the difference in rolling diameter. With front wheel drive in particular the front wheels are doing at least 75% of the work so balance between them is most desirable. The rears are very different in that their main job is as a stabilizing influence. There's no differential to worry about so if one side is a bit more worn than the other it's not of such importance - of course they need to have usable tread depth - and under braking, especially heavy braking, the front tyres are doing nearly all the work. However you have to remember the rears are stabilizers stopping the car "swapping ends", which is just so difficult to deal with. I've heard many arguments about whether controling oversteer is that difficult and all I can say is that I learned to drive at a very young age in "old bangers" tearing around the fields going sideways most of the time. These cars were rear wheel drive and you could induce ridiculous and most enjoyable degrees of oversteer and hold it there on the throttle - pretty much like the modern sport of "drifting" but at much slower speeds and without wearing the tyres out because you were on grass/mud. Later I rallied my Cooper S for a couple of years. Front wheel drive so had to learn a different way of driving on loose surfaces. I would venture the opinion that most everyday drivers just don't have the skill or experience to control vehicles when things go "pear shaped" and you only really acquire this skill by practicing at it over a period of time. The sense of panic when a car first starts to go sideways or doesn't stop when you press the brake pedal (because the tyres are slipping) is absolutely paralyzing for many people and even if they make a stab at steering into a skid they lack the coordination to exercise effective control - You've got to have done it again and again on many different surfaces to become competent. Spectacularly good fun when you get it right though!

It's also generally accepted that an understeering car (one that is trying to plough straight on in a corner) is more easily controlled than one which is oversteering (where the rear wheels are trying to run wide and come round on you forcing you to apply opposite lock) so, with this logic in mind, it's generally recommended that you should have your best tyres on the rear wheels. This has been the advice for many years and I remember it from right back in the 60's when I was getting going in this "game"

The point being that when you've spent some time controlling vehicles in these situations when one "misbehaves" on the road you don't feel that sense of panic but just asses what it's doing and take appropriate action. The problem is that often you're in close proximity to others which is not the case in the field or when rallying so there's the added "spice" of trying to avoid them as they do their own thing!

 

[Jockstrap]

Thanks Jock . Very helpful.

 

[AnthonyH]

Without seeing the tyre and being able to manipulate the crack to see how deep it is it's very difficult to advise. Can you see the age of both tyres? Even if both the same age, The one that's in the spare may just be looking better right now because it's not been in service and once fitted to the car may then develop cracks before too long?

Can you post a picture of the cracking? you could try carefully opening the crack with something like a blunt screwdriver and see how deep it goes. If it goes deep enough to expose casing cords then it's a definite bin job. As long as the 3mm is across the whole tread and you don't expect too much from it, it should be sound.

Two things to think on here. Always best to have two tyres which match as near as possible on the front. So, of course best if the same make but at least similar tread pattern and wear. If you have a very worn tyre on one side and a nearly new one on the other then, apart from grip problems you're also going to force the differential to work harder than it should to account for the difference in rolling diameter. With front wheel drive in particular the front wheels are doing at least 75% of the work so balance between them is most desirable. The rears are very different in that their main job is as a stabilizing influence. There's no differential to worry about so if one side is a bit more worn than the other it's not of such importance - of course they need to have usable tread depth - and under braking, especially heavy braking, the front tyres are doing nearly all the work. However you have to remember the rears are stabilizers stopping the car "swapping ends", which is just so difficult to deal with. I've heard many arguments about whether controling oversteer is that difficult and all I can say is that I learned to drive at a very young age in "old bangers" tearing around the fields going sideways most of the time. These cars were rear wheel drive and you could induce ridiculous and most enjoyable degrees of oversteer and hold it there on the throttle - pretty much like the modern sport of "drifting" but at much slower speeds and without wearing the tyres out because you were on grass/mud. Later I rallied my Cooper S for a couple of years. Front wheel drive so had to learn a different way of driving on loose surfaces. I would venture the opinion that most everyday drivers just don't have the skill or experience to control vehicles when things go "pear shaped" and you only really acquire this skill by practicing at it over a period of time. The sense of panic when a car first starts to go sideways or doesn't stop when you press the brake pedal (because the tyres are slipping) is absolutely paralyzing for many people and even if they make a stab at steering into a skid they lack the coordination to exercise effective control - You've got to have done it again and again on many different surfaces to become competent. Spectacularly good fun when you get it right though!

It's also generally accepted that an understeering car (one that is trying to plough straight on in a corner) is more easily controlled than one which is oversteering (where the rear wheels are trying to run wide and come round on you forcing you to apply opposite lock) so, with this logic in mind, it's generally recommended that you should have your best tyres on the rear wheels. This has been the advice for many years and I remember it from right back in the 60's when I was getting going in this "game"

The point being that when you've spent some time controlling vehicles in these situations when one "misbehaves" on the road you don't feel that sense of panic but just asses what it's doing and take appropriate action. The problem is that often you're in close proximity to others which is not the case in the field or when rallying so there's the added "spice" of trying to avoid them as they do their own thing!

Based upon what you've said I'm going to have a look at all my tyres tomorrow. I have two working cars, an EVO and a GP, and probably should assess tread depths and conditions on all of them because they may benefit from a switch around.

Both of these cars are new to me within the last 6 months and I have a now SORN GP. So I've swopped wheels between all 3 cars. Principally to get all the worst tyres on the SORN GP. These tyres are all legal and safe to drive but basically a jumble. So I need to unjumble them.

I'll check for cracking, get the best tyres on the back and match brands on the same axle where i have two of the same.

 

[AnthonyH]

all I can say is that I learned to drive at a very young age in "old bangers" tearing around the fields going sideways most of the time. These cars were rear wheel drive and you could induce ridiculous and most enjoyable degrees of oversteer and hold it there on the throttle - pretty much like the modern sport of "drifting" but at much slower speeds and without wearing the tyres out because you were on grass/mud. Later I rallied my Cooper S for a couple of years.

That sounds a lot of fun!

I've driven rear wheel drive carts, they were fun if a little difficult to control!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Your replies are always interesting and informative, so you shouldn't worry about the quantity you right. This forum is an antidote to some other places where a few words or sentences is considered a long reply!

I was recently told to stop using a tyre made in 2018 by a garage. It looked fine to me so I just thought they wanted some extra business, but low and behold some time later I realised it was leaking. The garage didn't know this, they just had some kind of sixth sense when to stop using a tyre.

I'm now considering getting a mobile mechanic to come and balance my tyres. I've previously posted about a DIY home balancing and came away with the idea it wasn't very practical. I don't want to go to a garage to get this done because then I will be without the car. So a mobile mechanic is a good idea. Thanks for that!

Thanks for the kind words about my ramblings.

Yup, sometimes you just have a feeling that refuses to go away.

Personally I'd advise you to seek out a tyre specialist - not just a mobile mechanic. There's a bit of a "dark art" about balancing tyres. There are dot markings on tyres which relate to the balance factor during manufacture (placing of tread splices etc which have the potential to cause a heavy spot) You may have noticed one or two wee coloured spots near the bead on the sidewall of a new tyre? These help with the positioning of the tyre relative to the valve when mounting, inexperienced or untrained operatives will often disregard these assists. Correct, or incorrect, fitting can have quite an effect on how the balance turns out. More often than not they balance up just fine but occasionally you get a difficult one which just won't play the game and then it's experience which will make the difference.

This is my chap, who I can recommend without reservation: https://www.citymobiletyres.com/ His area is pretty much bounded by the city bypass - he tells me he has plenty of work and doesn't need to waste time or money by traveling further afield. but I'm sure that if you live outside that area you could, like my younger boy, meet him in a car park somewhere inside the boundary and get the tyres done there. As I was saying Anthony, someone like him who specializes in tyres only is likely to give you the best outcome - of course a word of mouth recommendation in your area would be better?

 

[AnthonyH]

Thanks for the kind words about my ramblings.

Rambling would be defined as mostly off-topic. And your replies are on topic.

Personally I'd advise you to seek out a tyre specialist - not just a mobile mechanic.

I agree a tyre specialist would be better than a mobile mechanic.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

That sounds a lot of fun!

I've driven rear wheel drive carts, they were fun if a little difficult to control!

Oh dear, I'd forgotten about carting! did that for a year before I had the Cooper but was spectacularly unsuccessful! couldn't afford a competitive cart for a start. It was great fun but probably the most seriously competitive motor sporting thing I've ever attempted. The kids involved were playing for keeps and took no quarter. I really enjoyed motor sports but I just didn't have the "death wish" the people who were really competitive had - not enough money either if I'm honest. No, I soon discovered my place was mixing it in amongst the dirty greasy bits! - and I still am although these days it's probably going to be a 1940s lawnmower or 60's cultivator or old European/British small engined motor cycle, or whatever turns up that takes my imagination, 'specially if it's got a smelly IC engine attached in some way.

 

[AnthonyH]

Oh dear, I'd forgotten about carting! did that for a year before I had the Cooper but was spectacularly unsuccessful! couldn't afford a competitive cart for a start. It was great fun but probably the most seriously competitive motor sporting thing I've ever attempted. The kids involved were playing for keeps and took no quarter. I really enjoyed motor sports but I just didn't have the "death wish" the people who were really competitive had - not enough money either if I'm honest. No, I soon discovered my place was mixing it in amongst the dirty greasy bits! - and I still am although these days it's probably going to be a 1940s lawnmower or 60's cultivator or old European/British small engined motor cycle, or whatever turns up that takes my imagination, 'specially if it's got a smelly IC engine attached in some way.

You have to enjoy adrenaline to want to stay at the high speeds and quick corners. For many a year I've been happy driving in the slow lane now! LOL

I've enjoyed taking up DIY car work, its interesting and outdoors. Better than gardening anyway!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

You have to enjoy adrenaline to want to stay at the high speeds and quick corners. For many a year I've been happy driving in the slow lane now! LOL

I've enjoyed taking up DIY car work, its interesting and outdoors. Better than gardening anyway!

Thinking about the carts has reminded me that I acquitted well of myself on the stag do for my younger boy about 15 years ago. In the afternoon we went "serious" carting - not just the wee things with bumpers but "proper" carts that probably could do around 70 mph? I don't know for sure but they were pretty quick. Anyway it was soon evident that only a couple of his friends were decently quick and I was the only older person who was doing anything more than play at it. So battle was joined. I did have one major handicap though. Last time I tried to go really quickly in a Cart I was in my early 20's and now I had just turned 60 and needed my glasses to see. I should have thought about it but at full chat and especially in really fast corners my glasses were jumping up and down on my nose so fast and violently that all I could see was a blur! I came second in the final result though and had one hell of a good time! quite a few of his young friends seemed quite impressed!

I also added to my cred score at my older boy's stag do which was maybe 20 years ago. We went clay shooting in the afternoon - thought that would be safer than after the drinking got started! Ha Ha! Anyway they asked us all what past experience we'd had of using guns and there were a number of his friends who were forces folk - my boy was in the Marines at that time - and there were a couple like me who had been in cadets and then done shooting later (I was quite into small bore target shooting at one time and my Dad shot game etc so I'd done a bit of rough shooting and rooks and pidgeons etc. Anyway they divided us into two groups and they seemed to think I should be with "the big boys". Turned out I'd not forgotten how to do it and I got second highest score of the day. The chaps who ran the shoot joined in after the serious competition was finished and said they'd not enjoyed being with a group like us so much for a long time. I tell you, some of them could really shoot. The forces lads were keen to say how shooting with a 12 bore was really quite a bit different to using a rifle, which of course is quite true, but I think they were a wee bit impressed by the groom's father's efforts. These lads were about to ship out to Afghanistan but my lad was injured before his turn came and invalided out. Some of them never came back and, although he suffered injury, I'm so glad my boy didn't have to go. Next day when I got up Mrs J said "what have you been doing?" "What" I replied. "just look at yourself in the mirror" So I did. I had a muckle great bruise on my right cheek where the shotgun stock had been resting - we did shoot off a lot of cartridges though. Had to pay extra for the ammo when we'd finished, but it was worth it.

 

[AnthonyH]

Thinking about the carts has reminded me that I acquitted well of myself on the stag do for my younger boy about 15 years ago. In the afternoon we went "serious" carting - not just the wee things with bumpers but "proper" carts that probably could do around 70 mph? I don't know for sure but they were pretty quick. Anyway it was soon evident that only a couple of his friends were decently quick and I was the only older person who was doing anything more than play at it. So battle was joined. I did have one major handicap though. Last time I tried to go really quickly in a Cart I was in my early 20's and now I had just turned 60 and needed my glasses to see. I should have thought about it but at full chat and especially in really fast corners my glasses were jumping up and down on my nose so fast and violently that all I could see was a blur! I came second in the final result though and had one hell of a good time! quite a few of his young friends seemed quite impressed!

I also added to my cred score at my older boy's stag do which was maybe 20 years ago. We went clay shooting in the afternoon - thought that would be safer than after the drinking got started! Ha Ha! Anyway they asked us all what past experience we'd had of using guns and there were a number of his friends who were forces folk - my boy was in the Marines at that time - and there were a couple like me who had been in cadets and then done shooting later (I was quite into small bore target shooting at one time and my Dad shot game etc so I'd done a bit of rough shooting and rooks and pidgeons etc. Anyway they divided us into two groups and they seemed to think I should be with "the big boys". Turned out I'd not forgotten how to do it and I got second highest score of the day. The chaps who ran the shoot joined in after the serious competition was finished and said they'd not enjoyed being with a group like us so much for a long time. I tell you, some of them could really shoot. The forces lads were keen to say how shooting with a 12 bore was really quite a bit different to using a rifle, which of course is quite true, but I think they were a wee bit impressed by the groom's father's efforts. These lads were about to ship out to Afghanistan but my lad was injured before his turn came and invalided out. Some of them never came back and, although he suffered injury, I'm so glad my boy didn't have to go. Next day when I got up Mrs J said "what have you been doing?" "What" I replied. "just look at yourself in the mirror" So I did. I had a muckle great bruise on my right cheek where the shotgun stock had been resting - we did shoot off a lot of cartridges though. Had to pay extra for the ammo when we'd finished, but it was worth it.

I'm glad your son didn't go. It would have been heart breaking to lose him.

My son is a cricketer, I coach him and end up with a lot of bruises. There have been times i've been black and blue, still safer than shooting though!

 

[AnthonyH]

I've done the tyre switch around, i'm left with one tricky choice...

Do I leave this winter tyre on the car, I can see no year of manufacture markings at all. It is a winter tyre on on otherwise summer tyre car, it has 5mm of tread and some very mild cracking.

Or should I put this one on the car? Its a summer tyre, with no cracking, appears to be manufactured in 2012 or 2016. It has 3mm tread.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've done the tyre switch around, i'm left with one tricky choice...

Do I leave this winter tyre on the car, I can see no year of manufacture markings at all. It is a winter tyre on on otherwise summer tyre car, it has 5mm of tread and some very mild cracking.

View attachment 440148

View attachment 440151


Or should I put this one on the car? Its a summer tyre, with no cracking, appears to be manufactured in 2012 or 2016. It has 3mm tread.


View attachment 440149
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First off, that tyre is marked 1612 so manufactured in the 16th week of 2012. tread depth is even across the tread width which is good and shows that whichever hub it was mounted to is running Ok in respect of alignment. Looks to be in much better physical condition than the other one. Although very slight surface crazing can be seen in the tread grooves at 3mm it's still got some life in it yet I'd say. The rubber will have hardened due to age so grip will not be as good as it was when new. I'm not surprised to see the winter tyre is in worse condition as, in my experience, they do seem to deteriorate more quickly than "summer" tyres.

I'm not too impressed with the overall condition of the winter tyre at all and would probably just scrap it - Anyway, the rubber has probably aged so much that any advantage it had in terms of winter grip are probably gone by now. A vigilant policeman might get excited about it if he was looking for "additional" stuff on a traffic stop?

 

[AnthonyH]

First off, that tyre is marked 1612 so manufactured in the 16th week of 2012. tread depth is even across the tread width which is good and shows that whichever hub it was mounted to is running Ok in respect of alignment. Looks to be in much better physical condition than the other one. Although very slight surface crazing can be seen in the tread grooves at 3mm it's still got some life in it yet I'd say. The rubber will have hardened due to age so grip will not be as good as it was when new. I'm not surprised to see the winter tyre is in worse condition as, in my experience, they do seem to deteriorate more quickly than "summer" tyres.

I'm not too impressed with the overall condition of the winter tyre at all and would probably just scrap it - Anyway, the rubber has probably aged so much that any advantage it had in terms of winter grip are probably gone by now. A vigilant policeman might get excited about it if he was looking for "additional" stuff on a traffic stop?

So I should switch tyres.

I'd kept this winter one on because I thought 5mm tread outweighed the 3mm tread. (despite it being in worse condition).

If the summer tyre I'm going to put on is 12 years old then the winter tyre I have on must be even older...its hard to tell though as the markings are FL4E and 1KKX.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

If you're interested here's some good info: https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/tyre-s-date-of-manufacture - certainly looks like the winter tyre is very old.

You say the winter tyre has no age markings on it? I guess you've looked on both sides? (only say that as it's often very difficult to see the inside if the wheel is actually installed on a vehicle.) What brand is the tyre and does it say where made? Many years ago the tyre markings were different - the first paragraph makes some reference to this. However I've not seen a tyre with anything other than the more modern four number code in a long time so, even if your tyre has the older markings it probably means it's very old. It's worth considering too that the rubber helps protect the casing cords of the tyre from deterioration. If the cracking is deep enough to let moisture and other contaminants reach the casing cords then they will be compromised.

So, Personally, I'd not be happy with that perished tyre on my car. I'm a bit obsessed with having good rubber on my cars so, although I might fit the 3mm tyre as a temporary stop gap, I'd be putting some pennies by to get it replaced with a new one at the earliest opportunity. Of course everything comes down to money doesn't it? I have to admit to having taken some risks with stuff like this when young and poor simply because I had no viable option and needed to get to work. At the end of the day only you can decide what you're going to do and remember it's the man behind the wheel when things go "pear shaped" who's the responsible person.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Edit. Just read your last post and that seems to confirm this tyre is well past anything which could be considered usable in terms of age.

 

[AnthonyH]

If you're interested here's some good info: https://www.oponeo.co.uk/blog/tyre-s-date-of-manufacture - certainly looks like the winter tyre is very old.

You say the winter tyre has no age markings on it? I guess you've looked on both sides? (only say that as it's often very difficult to see the inside if the wheel is actually installed on a vehicle.) What brand is the tyre and does it say where made? Many years ago the tyre markings were different - the first paragraph makes some reference to this. However I've not seen a tyre with anything other than the more modern four number code in a long time so, even if your tyre has the older markings it probably means it's very old. It's worth considering too that the rubber helps protect the casing cords of the tyre from deterioration. If the cracking is deep enough to let moisture and other contaminants reach the casing cords then they will be compromised.

I have looked on both sides for age markings. It looks like there were age markings but they were scrubbed out. It could be that the tyre scraped along a kerb and lost them, long before the car came into my possession.

The brand is a Michelin Alpin. I've just google to see if I can find any useful information but there's not much out there.

This is another picture of it.

So, Personally, I'd not be happy with that perished tyre on my car. I'm a bit obsessed with having good rubber on my cars so, although I might fit the 3mm tyre as a temporary stop gap, I'd be putting some pennies by to get it replaced with a new one at the earliest opportunity. Of course everything comes down to money doesn't it? I have to admit to having taken some risks with stuff like this when young and poor simply because I had no viable option and needed to get to work. At the end of the day only you can decide what you're going to do and remember it's the man behind the wheel when things go "pear shaped" who's the responsible person.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Edit. Just read your last post and that seems to confirm this tyre is well past anything which could be considered usable in terms of age.

I've come to the inescapable conclusion that I need a new tyre on there.

The MOT is due in June so I'll get it done then. I often ask for tyres to be changed at this time and the garage is happy anyways

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have looked on both sides for age markings. It looks like there were age markings but they were scrubbed out. It could be that the tyre scraped along a kerb and lost them, long before the car came into my possession.

The brand is a Michelin Alpin. I've just google to see if I can find any useful information but there's not much out there.

This is another picture of it.

View attachment 440154



I've come to the inescapable conclusion that I need a new tyre on there.

Only sensible conclusion isn't it.

The MOT is due in June so I'll get it done then. I often ask for tyres to be changed at this time and the garage is happy anyways

Do keep us informed as to how you go about getting the new tyre - ie. buy from a garage or mobile tyre man or whatever and what you actually buy. I'm always interested in anything to do with tyres.