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Tuning Lets see how it goes..

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Tuning Lets see how it goes..

Hey guys. well i managed to get the thing open..ish. I got the face plate off but about a 1-2cm in theres been some sort of rock solid resin pumped into there, so yes looks very suspect. But as you can see from the photos, far left is the led to show it has power, middle is the connector and far right in the trim setting when u can gain or loose power, and there all connected to the circuit board on the bottom.
Heres some photos.
SAM_1654.JPG

SAM_1658.JPG
 
gsalini said:
Hey guys. well i managed to get the thing open..ish. I got the face plate off but about a 1-2cm in theres been some sort of rock solid resin pumped into there, so yes looks very suspect. But as you can see from the photos, far left is the led to show it has power, middle is the connector and far right in the trim setting when u can gain or loose power, and there all connected to the circuit board on the bottom.
Heres some photos.
View attachment 87059

View attachment 87060
Click to expand...

so you get a Adjustable Resistor aka Variable Resistor or Potentiometer. a serial port, bit of pcb a box and a light:cool:
 
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So its obviously a fake, but even if it is just a resistor, what harm does it do to the engine?
 
dave said:
so you get a Adjustable Resistor aka Variable Resistor or Potentiometer. a serial port, bit of pcb a box and a light:cool:
Click to expand...

So, what are you saying? Are you saying, from what you can see, that this is, what?
How does this compare to the internals of a TMC box?
 
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dave said:
what i can see in the pic would cost about £3 or less think i got most of that sitting around in broken stuff stash. TMC has a chip dont it?
Click to expand...

I am not sure how this compares to any other tuning box. Certainly it looks pretty basic, from what we can see. However, we can only see what we see in the images. There may be more inside. A chip is quite small and could easily be in there. I am simply reserving judgement until we can actually see the entire inside of the box, or an expert in the field comes along and gives an opinion.
I had a Mk2 Golf Gti and the chip modification I put in the ECU was very small.
My understanding of the resistor trick is that it causes overfuelling. The OP states his fuel economy has improved!
 
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Oh and by the way. I emailed the company with a rant saying that is just a resistor on a circuit board with a load of resin for weight and that there isn't actually a microprocessor. They have emailed me back apparently baffled, they've asked for photos which i have sent to them and there saying their technical team are having a look...
 
gsalini said:
It would be nice to see what TMC have to say about this...
Click to expand...

I do tend to agree as TMC did get involved in the discussion and stated:

"I'd be interested if someone could take it apart and send me a photo of the PCB as I'd be happy to be proved wrong and curious as to how this if it is digital can be produced so cheaply".

I would understand if they decline to make a comment as the images do not clearly show the complete PCB. However, it does show enough to make an educated guess.
 
gsalini said:
Oh and by the way. I emailed the company with a rant saying that is just a resistor on a circuit board with a load of resin for weight and that there isn't actually a microprocessor. They have emailed me back apparently baffled, they've asked for photos which i have sent to them and there saying their technical team are having a look...
Click to expand...

Any update?
 
Hi guys,
sorry about the delay in response, was in Birmingham all day yesterday to see Maroon 5! ha. But there has been no word from them. Im going to email them again now demanding an explanation. And the green resin is above and below. The circit board is suspended in the middle by the notches in the box on the inside and the resin has just been put in there and its covered everything and left 1-2cm gap from the surface of the resin to the top of the box. i cant be more detailed with you guys unfortunately.
 
dave said:
what i can see in the pic would cost about £3 or less think i got most of that sitting around in broken stuff stash. TMC has a chip dont it?
Click to expand...

Yes Dave ours has an Atmel processor inside, its easy to tell digital because the 'base map' is loaded in via laptop PC, inside ours you can see a little 8 pin port were the laptop plugs in, the map of rail adjustment is done in a curve so starting low at around 1700 rpm and increasing as the revs build then tailing off at high rpm. With a resistor you just get a flat rate change so rail pressure is increased by one steady amount from idle to red line. Our box only starts tuning at around 1700rpm when the turbo has started to make pressure, with a resistor you have no control over when the increase starts and stops, its constant.

Having constantly increased rail pressure obviously puts more pressure on the rail itself and the high pressure pump supplying it. And it also means extra fuel is being pumped in every time the injectors open, even at idle, this is not good for an engine.
 
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Thanks for your explanation TMC. I still have had no word from the company i bought my box from. So when i WILL get this refund from them, ill probably be buying your box. Oh and another quick question... how come its now £125 for the box and not £100? :p haaa. Oh and another question i think most members on here would appreciate you answering, whats better, your tuning box or your ecu remap? and why?
Thanks
 
well guys they've responded, and they seem a tad pissed off that i suggested its a fake! ha. Ill let you read the response for your self's....

"I am Rocco Carbone, the engineer of the Italian Box Team. I am very
disappointed for your email because it is totally unfounded. Our box
is fully digital as you can see in our advert: there's a Philips 64
bit microprocessor and 512 KB flash memory (where we install the
specific software). Indeed every box is specifically programmed for
specific car model but each engine is unique because of the presence
of structural tolerances. Each engine is composed by over 4000 pieces,
each component has a tolerance of about 0,01 mm and once assembled we
can find a tolerance chain relevant. One engine selled by car
manufacturer as 100 bhp could have 90 bhp like 110 bhp: it's 10%! The
trimmer is placed against the DC-AC (digital converter analogical
converter) and it serves to correct the signal in order to adapt it to
every single motor, because of this chain of tolerances. In the
electrical system of the cars all the signals are in fact analog. Your
ECU convert them through the AC-DC, elaborate them through the
processor and then they are re-converted through the DC-AC in order to
travel in your car's electrical system. The hysophtalic resin,
however, is to respect the automotive standards safety. It protects
the chip from water, dust, vibration and temperature. It also impedes
our competitors to copy our hardware (created after years of
research). Our chip tuning box now is in offer it costs more than £
50,00 that you have paid! We rest at your disposal for every kind of
question. Best regards the Thunder Box Team"

so guys, tell me what you think!
 
TMC Motorsport said:
Yes Dave ours has an Atmel processor inside, its easy to tell digital because the 'base map' is loaded in via laptop PC, inside ours you can see a little 8 pin port were the laptop plugs in, the map of rail adjustment is done in a curve so starting low at around 1700 rpm and increasing as the revs build then tailing off at high rpm. With a resistor you just get a flat rate change so rail pressure is increased by one steady amount from idle to red line. Our box only starts tuning at around 1700rpm when the turbo has started to make pressure, with a resistor you have no control over when the increase starts and stops, its constant.

Having constantly increased rail pressure obviously puts more pressure on the rail itself and the high pressure pump supplying it. And it also means extra fuel is being pumped in every time the injectors open, even at idle, this is not good for an engine.
Click to expand...

would that mean you could tell a resistor box by running a meter over the cables to see if it has a constant voltage from idle through the rev range?
 
gsalini said:
well guys they've responded, and they seem a tad pissed off that i suggested its a fake! ha. Ill let you read the response for your self's....

"I am Rocco Carbone, the engineer of the Italian Box Team. I am very
disappointed for your email because it is totally unfounded. Our box
is fully digital as you can see in our advert: there's a Philips 64
bit microprocessor and 512 KB flash memory (where we install the
specific software). Indeed every box is specifically programmed for
specific car model but each engine is unique because of the presence
of structural tolerances. Each engine is composed by over 4000 pieces,
each component has a tolerance of about 0,01 mm and once assembled we
can find a tolerance chain relevant. One engine selled by car
manufacturer as 100 bhp could have 90 bhp like 110 bhp: it's 10%! The
trimmer is placed against the DC-AC (digital converter analogical
converter) and it serves to correct the signal in order to adapt it to
every single motor, because of this chain of tolerances. In the
electrical system of the cars all the signals are in fact analog. Your
ECU convert them through the AC-DC, elaborate them through the
processor and then they are re-converted through the DC-AC in order to
travel in your car's electrical system. The hysophtalic resin,
however, is to respect the automotive standards safety. It protects
the chip from water, dust, vibration and temperature. It also impedes
our competitors to copy our hardware (created after years of
research). Our chip tuning box now is in offer it costs more than £
50,00 that you have paid! We rest at your disposal for every kind of
question. Best regards the Thunder Box Team"

so guys, tell me what you think!
Click to expand...

Seems a reasonable response. English obviously not the guys native language.

"The hysophtalic resin, however, is to respect the automotive standards safety. It protects the chip from water, dust, vibration and temperature. It also impedes our competitors to copy our hardware".

For me the jury is still out. However, if you are getting improved fuel economy (objective fact) it would indicate it works. Any other observation regarding going faster, etc. is very very subjective.
For me, the one I bought ages ago definitely gives me much improved fuel economy (fact), better acceleration and smoother power delivery (subjective observation, unable to prove).
So my tuppence worth.
 
gsalini said:
Thanks for your explanation TMC. I still have had no word from the company i bought my box from. So when i WILL get this refund from them, ill probably be buying your box. Oh and another quick question... how come its now £125 for the box and not £100? :p haaa. Oh and another question i think most members on here would appreciate you answering, whats better, your tuning box or your ecu remap? and why?
Thanks
Click to expand...

The price on the website is not what forum members pay, I can send you an invoice for the forum price if you email me.
I think for value for money the box is best, remaps are about twice the cost normally, the power from the box is sufficient for most people. Remap may well give more power but if you run them too high you can have clutch problems.
 
custard said:
would that mean you could tell a resistor box by running a meter over the cables to see if it has a constant voltage from idle through the rev range?
Click to expand...

Yes you would need to measure the voltage before and after and see if the drop in voltage is constant or variable.

The guy seems adamant that the box uses a processor, I can't understand half of what he says but the only way you would know for certain is to strip away the resin. As I said before if it is digital I don't know how they can sell it for that price and make money, also why do they sell under so many different names?
 
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