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Old 16-02-2012   #31
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Re: (not so) cold starts

My doblo disk makes no reference whatsoever to a shutoff valve for the heater matrix - yet there must be one else you'll get boiling hot coolant flowing through in the middle of summer (in which case, where is it? - the one on my lad's fiesta is easy to spot as it's fixed inline to both hoses as they leave the engine bay) . Even if the blowers were diverted off the matrix, there would be some residual heat coming out ( ).
The webasto parking heater makes reference to heating the car's interior & defrosting the screen - so can I assume that installation also includes some sort of bypass circuit providing current to the valve & blowers? (otherwise it could pump coolant day & night & the car's interior wouldn't warm up (?) )
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Old 16-02-2012   #32
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Re: (not so) cold starts

The 'shut off valve' on the fiesta is not a shut off valve. For some reason ford were feeling strange and decided to use a solenoid valve to control the flow of coolant into the matrix and thus the temperature of the cabin heater, normally as is most probably the case with your Doblo, the coolant does run continuously into the matrix then the air flow thought the cabin heater is diverted by moving flaps through the matrix or around it, I've not found other cars that are the same as the mk4 fiesta.
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Old 16-02-2012   #33
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Re: (not so) cold starts

Quote Originally Posted by sludgeguts View Post
My doblo disk makes no reference whatsoever to a shutoff valve for the heater matrix - yet there must be one else you'll get boiling hot coolant flowing through in the middle of summer (in which case, where is it? - the one on my lad's fiesta is easy to spot as it's fixed inline to both hoses as they leave the engine bay) . Even if the blowers were diverted off the matrix, there would be some residual heat coming out ( ).
The webasto parking heater makes reference to heating the car's interior & defrosting the screen - so can I assume that installation also includes some sort of bypass circuit providing current to the valve & blowers? (otherwise it could pump coolant day & night & the car's interior wouldn't warm up (?) )
The heating unit of the Doblo is similar in design to other Fiats. Its a compact design that incorporates, fan, heater matrix, solenoid controlled flaps etc..

The shut off valve must also be inside the unit, either electrically(aircon) or cable(non aircon) operated, unless a flap is used to divert air away from a permantly heated matrix. Can't see that working very well in the sumer when the aircon is turned to cold. Heat from the matrix would cause the aircon to work overtime.

I suspect their parking heater is limited to certain cab heater designs.
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 17-02-2012 at 00:17.
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Old 17-02-2012   #34
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Re: (not so) cold starts

Quote Originally Posted by Shadeyman View Post
The shut off valve must also be inside the unit, either electrically(aircon) or cable(non aircon) operated, unless a flap is used to divert air away from a permantly heated matrix. Can't see that working very well in the sumer when the aircon is turned to cold. Heat from the matrix would cause the aircon to work overtime.
.
I have to agree with you on that - although I have been known to be wrong. I've only worked on 4 heater matrices over the past 30 years and all have had some sort of method to stop the matrix getting toasty in the middle of summer.
Like you, I find it unbelievable that you will have a very efficient radiator, radiating some serious heat on a hot summer's day. If only we had a decent workshop manual to pore over (heck, I'd settle for some clear images on a parts disk!).
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Old 19-02-2012   #35
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Re: (not so) cold starts

why not just put car in garage overnight seems like a lot of trouble to make the car start easier in colder conditions i would agree if we lived in norway and -20 degrees but not just living south of hadrians wall as for extra wear on engine i dont know anyone who has a modern car ie 1990 onwards car that has worn the engine due to starting it in the uk cold weather especially with the thinner viscosity oils that are designed for cold starting .but thats just my opinion.
this reminds me of the americans spending £1million on developing the pen that would write upside down when in space !
the russians took a pencil and sharpner with them into space

simples
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Old 20-02-2012   #36
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Re: (not so) cold starts

Quote Originally Posted by ferox9311 View Post
why not just put car in garage overnight seems like a lot of trouble to make the car start easier in colder conditions i would agree if we lived in norway and -20 degrees but not just living south of hadrians wall as for extra wear on engine i dont know anyone who has a modern car ie 1990 onwards car that has worn the engine due to starting it in the uk cold weather especially with the thinner viscosity oils that are designed for cold starting .but thats just my opinion.
this reminds me of the americans spending £1million on developing the pen that would write upside down when in space !
the russians took a pencil and sharpner with them into space

simples
If I had a garage, I wouldn't fill it full of the crap that you generally see in them when people open the door - £10k + motor sitting out in all weathers whilst a £50 BBQ and a £120 lawnmower are tucked up for the night.
And whilst there aren't any / many tales of worn engines out there, how do we know that the shock of taking an engine from an overnight of -10 (and we've recorded quite a few of those recently) to instantly hitting combustion temps isn't damaging? (and at -10 deg C, a good battery will be operating at around 60%)
OK, so the lump might get away with it, but what about all those other components? Can we honestly say that HG failure isn't down to these sudden changes in temp? (or any of the other flimsy gaskets). I had an 8y/o astra fail on me one winter's morn, as soon as it fired a piston shattered leaving the con rod flailling inside the pot - causing some serious damage to the walls. Thermal shock? Just one stress too many? I know it hadn't been twiddled with as I bought it at 3y/o as a fleet car (although this one had the same driver from new)

As for the story about NASA spending $1million on space pens whilst the russians took pencils, I think you'll find that it was Fisher who spent the $1million, not NASA. The Americans also used pencils on the space programmes. they later bought into the fisher space pen (along with the Russians).

At the end of the day, it's not a very expensive item & if it means I can get into a toasty warm car on a cold morning...
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Old 20-02-2012   #37
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Re: (not so) cold starts

So, have you decided on a location and how you plan to connect it yet?
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Old 21-02-2012   #38
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Re: (not so) cold starts

If the definitive answer on the valve is that there isn't one then I'll chop the hose coming out of the matrix. (but I'm still intrigued as to what happens to all that heat, it's a very confined space for the high temps).

Just got to buy some additional hose and connectors.

I'm also looking round for a small, flush socket with a flip cover. I'm sure you used to be able to buy the IEC sockets (the ones that accept kettle / computer leads which could be flush mounted & had a spring-loaded cover - or even a waterproof trailling socket that I can fix somewhere convenient.
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Old 22-02-2012   #39
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Re: (not so) cold starts

The only place I've ever seen an IEC with a splash proof flap was on our old Flymo. Perhaps you could scavenge one from someones old Flymo?

or


http://www.tdspares.co.uk/proddetail...=fly022&cat=89
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 22-02-2012 at 08:01.
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Old 22-02-2012   #40
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Re: (not so) cold starts

Quote Originally Posted by Shadeyman View Post
The only place I've ever seen an IEC with a splash proof flap was on our old Flymo. Perhaps you could scavenge one from someones old Flymo?

or


http://www.tdspares.co.uk/proddetail...=fly022&cat=89
How interesting - an electric lawnmower - so not allowed to use in the rain (for obvious reasons). Only ones I've ever seen on those things have been the simple push fits. Thanks for the heads up as I was kinda hitting a brick wall.
And for £6 (and on ebay with free delivery), it's not going to break the bank if I play around with it to mount in/under my bumper (or even if I add a double bracket to my towbar?) - that screw on the side looks temptingly like somewhere I could affix some sort of bracket to help me mount the thing.

My initial thoughts are to mount this beside the towbar & cable tie the cable along the underside of the car & up into the engine bay (maybe on the fuel line? - not sure what else suitable is underneath 'til I have a look).
Interestingly, I came across a thread on an aircraft forum (they use preheaters on single props) & a few posters seemed very worried that the car body might somehow become live when this is plugged in. I wonder how my RCDs and ELCB will handle this scenario?
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Last edited by sludgeguts; 22-02-2012 at 23:49.
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Old 23-02-2012   #41
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Re: (not so) cold starts

Quote Originally Posted by sludgeguts View Post
How interesting - an electric lawnmower - so not allowed to use in the rain (for obvious reasons). Only ones I've ever seen on those things have been the simple push fits. Thanks for the heads up as I was kinda hitting a brick wall.
If your planning on making it a permanent fixture that could be used in any weather I think your only choice would be "Clipsal" weatherproof range as they are small compared to others. I'm sure they changed there name recently but I'm sure you could track down the parts you need.

Edit.(but no stock)
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Ind...All/index.html
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Last edited by Shadeyman; 23-02-2012 at 00:05.
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Old 23-02-2012   #42
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Re: (not so) cold starts

Just looked in more detail at these connectors, they are only 2 core/pin. The lead out of the preheater is 3 core (2 + E) - wondering if I can get away with not providing earth as the heater will not be touching any metal car body. Only contact through the hose in and out and maybe a cable tie holding it firmly to something (I'll have to provide insulation between this & the car body).
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Old 23-02-2012   #43
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Re: (not so) cold starts

Just an idea but why not have a cable stored in the car and run it out to the plug when you want to plug it in, safer than having a connector exposed on the car.
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Old 23-02-2012   #44
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Re: (not so) cold starts

The cable that comes with it is only 3' long so I'd have to leave it fixed up under the bonnet somewhere it never gets wet but I was kinda hoping to maybe rewire with a lead long enough to get to the outside world & a socket either built into the bumper or somewhere convenient (like beside the towbar) just for less hassle setting up at night and detaching next morning.
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Old 24-02-2012   #45
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Re: (not so) cold starts




Whilst looking for the clipsal product, I was also directed to Blagdon ... 3 pin and takes up to 2200watts - so 200 more than the heater
A pity the supplied cover is on the socket - but maybe the plug's internals can be swapped with the socket's 'just in case' I happened to plug the extension lead in first, leaving 3 exposed pins (with one live).
If not then I would have to make a routine of plugging into the car first, locking up then making my way to the house to plug in the other end and unplugging at the house first thing in the morning...
I could possibly remove the cable gland at the rear, slide the (hopefully now swapped over) plug in a bracket & epoxy it into place - pointing slightly downwards to deflect ingress of water etc.
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Last edited by sludgeguts; 24-02-2012 at 01:11.
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