Plannig for possibly a broken engine, I thinking what course to take. Tax is up in a few days, so wondering whether to get another car, and take this one off the road.

Basically I want to see what people think I should do with regards to the engine.

Cheers,

Kristian

With this sort of thing I'd be inclined to get the head and block tested for hairline fractures etc. With that done then you sit down and have a very long and hard think about where you want to go. With your mind made up you send it off to an engine builder, someone like Guy Croft, after a long and a rather detail discussion of what you want out of the engine.

Might as well spend £600 on the current engine and make it a minter than spending it on another stock engine and possibly having the same problems.

Would love to see a 1,4T

A bit OT: how much does a 1,4 in good condition cost in the UK (approximately )?

strip the current engine, anything new and worthwhile - keep it. bin the block. keep the head.

source a new 1.4, keep the old bits as spares.

speaking of hairline cracks, i think that may be whats wrong with the engine. water damaged car, hydrolocked and then damaged the block.

OR, bin the lot, and fit a mazda mx5 drive train, RWD, lightweight - that'd be fun

Find out the problem with this lump for certain and get the Novitec supecharger

my answer would be

sell the bugger and get something more powerfull, take the skills you have learned and build a porsche eating monster and dump the cento to a life of scappy parts


sorry but even i would dump cento life if i could afford then alteratives

I have to admit that to some extents I echo what Martin has said, its been a great learning experience, but has cost enough to cover the purchase of a car thats quicker, handles better and is more fun to drive standard.

Unless a cheap 1.4 engine came up (because anything less now would feel anticlimatic) which it may and car will rise again like the Phoenix, I'd be inclined to break get some decent returns back on the outlay that way and use it to fund something else that has bigger potential to start with.

As above but firstly if cost aint too high check out exactly whats wrong with the current engine might be something simple supercharger sounds good though rotrex are good and easy to fit all self contained all you will have to do is move the radiator to other side and it will fit snug nice progressive power less trouble/heat issues than a turbo but just as quick if not quicker but limiting factor being the block then

Thanks for all the feedback guys Certainly got me thinking a bit. Nice to get some other opinions.

StoneNewt said:

With this sort of thing I'd be inclined to get the head and block tested for hairline fractures etc. With that done then you sit down and have a very long and hard think about where you want to go. With your mind made up you send it off to an engine builder, someone like Guy Croft, after a long and a rather detail discussion of what you want out of the engine.

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MiG said:

Might as well spend £600 on the current engine and make it a minter than spending it on another stock engine and possibly having the same problems.

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I am thinking this may be the best value route, but i have lost a bit of faith in this lump. Still if I know I can take it to someone who really knows their stuff, and get them to do all the work I'll hopefully have some kind of warranty and know I'll get a decent job.

Guy Croft is very well respected, but looking at his prive list, it will cost a fair bit! Still it may be worth planning exactly what I want and having a talk anyway

MRodz said:

Would love to see a 1,4T
A bit OT: how much does a 1,4 in good condition cost in the UK (approximately )?

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Between 200-450 depending on where you go....its finding them that the hard part.

arc said:

strip the current engine, anything new and worthwhile - keep it. bin the block. keep the head.
..
OR, bin the lot, and fit a mazda mx5 drive train, RWD, lightweight - that'd be fun

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Thats another plan..keep the cams, oil pump, water pump etc...and just use another 1.4. I'd still want to have it checked and rebuilt though, so may make more sense sticking with what I've got.

Something like that conversion is a bit much for me though

jamie86 said:

Find out the problem with this lump for certain and get the Novitec supecharger

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Didn't even know they did them for them. I loved daves supercharged punto thread, but I think a turbo would be far easier, and cheaper, and still deliver good results

allanhelen said:

my answer would be

sell the bugger and get something more powerfull, take the skills you have learned and build a porsche eating monster and dump the cento to a life of scappy parts

sorry but even i would dump cento life if i could afford then alteratives

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J333EVO said:

I have to admit that to some extents I echo what Martin has said, its been a great learning experience, but has cost enough to cover the purchase of a car thats quicker, handles better and is more fun to drive standard.

Unless a cheap 1.4 engine came up (because anything less now would feel anticlimatic) which it may and car will rise again like the Phoenix, I'd be inclined to break get some decent returns back on the outlay that way and use it to fund something else that has bigger potential to start with.

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My head does think breaking it may be a sensible option, but my heart is still saying no.

Thinking about how much I've spent over the years I've had it, I dread to think how much I have spent! But that outlay would not have bought me what I would consider and amazing car, and has been spread out over the years as well.

My heart says give it one last chance, give it all, and get something special at the end of it.

Ultimatly it does handle OK, not like other performance cars, but its handling is quirky, and makes me smile whenever I drive it and things are going right. It's now quick, and will suprise a lot of people.

I'm wondering...NA, I think these engines can put out between 100-130 bhp dependent on tune....what would a low blow uprated engine make? I know fiat get the block in 120 and 150 bhp versions, so, around 150 bhp should be feasible at least. That would make the car something else, and straight line, should be amazing. That's what I'm thinking at least.

It's not going yet....but may do in the future if I have any major problems. In the mean time, I'll start saving on the sly, and start a "proper" car fund



Cheers everyone


Kristian

There is a small article in I think Performance tuner mag that gives some details of a Novitec Supercherger kit for Fiat 500 1.4's. I don't think its released yet, but must be imminent if mag has details on it.

OK found some more stuff on net, theres a fair amount of it but all saying the same, soon to be released.

http://www.petrol-head.com/2008/05/supercharged-fi.html
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080513.009/fiat-500-by-novitec
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/14/novitec-dials-up-the-fiat-500/

But it takes 500 from 99bhp to 131bhp@5200rpm and torque from 97lb ft (131nm) to 127lb ft@6200rpm (172nm) which takes the 500 that weighs about 930~950kgs 0-62 time down from 10.5sec to 8.8secs. Incidentally thats 0.1secs quicker to 60 than the more powerful Abarth 500 which will have 133bhp and 155lb ft@3000rpm.

Now in a Seicento weighing in at 800ish kgs, the performance would be better again.

I suppose the point being though, as far as I can see there is no change to compression ratio, and the high rev figures for power/torque suggest a Rotrex type charger as they produce the power higher up due to there nature.

Now I know on the Ignis the Rotrex Supercharger kit does not change the compression ratio which is either 10.5 or 11:1 can't remember which but comparable to the 1368 engine, and those run upto 6700rpm at something like 0.5bar making about 170~180bhp, up from 107bhp, so good returns. Though has to be said Ignis chassis is in different league to Sei, a Sei with anywhere near that power would I think be pretty awful to drive, even the Ignis has difficulty putting all that power down easily lighting up its front wheel in 3rd gear

The hindrance on the engine is the head design, it can't easily be ported so gains would be minimal and costly, cams do little because of the lifter design so any gains to be gotten are going to be very expensive with little return, you only have to look at what Fiat did to get more power, forced induction.

The way I'd go is either scrap it and do something totally different or new 1.4 and supercharge it. With the Rotrex you've got 2 options, either low blow on conservative pulley ratios or up the pulley ratios and lower the compression. I know that oldschool has been playing around with bits from one of the 500 turbos..........

Torque steer can be mitigated at least by engine management, decent tyres and wheels. As for more general handling, I think we've yet to seriously investigate front and rear ARBs, negative camber, and so on. With enough development, I can see no reason why a Sei couldn't outhandle any other FWD car out there (which is not to say I prefer RWD handling).

As for front engine/RWD, I don't think the Miata lump will fit. But, a Mazda rotary engine might just. That would be interesting.

Mate has a supercharger will post up a picture later to show how small it is and there is one smaller available it was on his mk4 astra van with a 3.0l v6 super charged near enough doubled power with a standard engine 350whp.
so use the 1368cc 16valve block pistons and 8valve head with a charger

Hmm I don't agree with scrapping the car at all ... I don't think he is after something high performance .. anyone can buy a impreza, but not many have a 1.4 sei ....

Going down to 1.2 not really feasible, as you need to take it do dvla and get it tested ....

The turbo and supercharge route, i won't consider either (well i don't have any skills to do it), alot of money and things can break easier compared to a N/A 1.4.

Yup i agree, sent the engine to a known engine builder, get it rebuild. You pay what u get i guess

Hmmmm can a sei ever handle as well as the old mini ?

Ming

Even in the late 60s there were cars that could out handle the old mini! And try a 115 bhp mini and tell me how great the handling is!

A 1.4 to Abarth SS spec is likely to be as reliable as a stock 1.4 given proper maintenance/management providing no more than 160bhp is asked for.

The reason I say move on is if you don't you'll end up like me and countless others with multiple cars, none of then getting used as much as they should and none of them having as much money spent on then as you'd like to spend on them. It's a slippery road that once you are on is hard to get off

allanhelen said:

The reason I say move on is if you don't you'll end up like me and countless others with multiple cars, none of then getting used as much as they should and none of them having as much money spent on then as you'd like to spend on them. It's a slippery road that once you are on is hard to get off

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Haha how true is that

One day i'll be able to "just say no!" :devil:

:yeahthat:...
I was meaning to keep my daily driver stock then realised I had a load of bits for the engine which kick started that project eating up cash that should have gone to the trackday Sei. :bang:

StoneNewt said:

:yeahthat:...
I was meaning to keep my daily driver stock then realised I had a load of bits for the engine which kick started that project eating up cash that should have gone to the trackday Sei. :bang:

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Is there a thread on this site or another about your turbo Sei am very interested

Nope, I'm not willing to input my development to a community that's discouraged me from trying to go beyond the conventional & think outside the box.