306maxi said:

The only thing I'd say about 16" wheels is that winter tyres in 195/45 r16 are as rare as rocking horse poop.

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So what do bigger cars in Europe/Scandinavia use? eg. BMW, Merc, Audi, etc, bearing in mind they usually need to buy Winter wheels/Tyres when they buy a new car.

They can't all be running around on 14" wheels surely, lol.

grimwau said:

So what do bigger cars in Europe/Scandinavia use? eg. BMW, Merc, Audi, etc, bearing in mind they usually need to buy Winter wheels/Tyres when they buy a new car.

They can't all be running around on 14" wheels surely, lol.

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I wasn't saying winter tyres for 16" wheels don't exist, I was talking about the specific size you want to use Take a look at the Abarth forum and despite what DraigFlag says, people struggle to find winter tyres in that size

DraigFlag87 said:

3 sets of 16" Abarth wheels for sale on the Abarth forum

http://www.abarthisti.co.uk/classifieds/

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Two sets on our own forum , although at least one of those is listed on both.

grimwau said:

Two sets on our own forum , although at least one of those is listed on both.

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Just remember my advice to find tyres first

Mytyres is listing some Michelin's in that size for the first time ever (I have checked fairly regularly for the last couple of years) for £134 each 185/55 R15's however can be had for a far more reasonable £70-£85 which is far more reasonable.

I would be tempted just to go for 15 inch steelies and 'cheap' winter tyres. Buy a spare 16 inch Abarth standard alloy - you often see one on ebay for sale (often they're a little scratched - but that shouldn't matter) and put a matching 'normal' tyre on it. I would also get a Marea spare (if it could be tested !) to leave in the boot so you have the option of carrying a 'light' spare.

I wouldn't be happy with mixing a winter and 'summer' tyre on the same axle.
The steelie and winter tyre just needs to be used generally for about 3 months - ok winter came early last year.
If you're into tyre rotation you could include the new full sized spare as part of the rotation to stretch the overall life of the tyres.
I think carrying a full sized spare in boot is carrying a lot of unnecessary weight unless you're done a long journey into the 'back end of nowhere'.

For winter tyres research part worn from Germany etc. Their laws I think state winter tyres have to have 4 or 5mm of tread as a minimum so they can still be used in the UK. I agree at that level they are less effective than new having started with I think 11mm, hense the German law but will be far better than std road tyres & I guess if you get snow deep enough to need fully funtioning snow tyres it will be far to deep to push the front of the car through anyway .

I know of someone who bought 4 for a beemer at £30 each delivered to the UK as against £110 each new.

Also research the tyres, many are good in snow but diabolical in the wet

Stuart J said:

For winter tyres research part worn from Germany etc. Their laws I think state winter tyres have to have 4 or 5mm of tread as a minimum so they can still be used in the UK. I agree at that level they are less effective than new having started with I think 11mm, hense the German law but will be far better than std road tyres & I guess if you get snow deep enough to need fully funtioning snow tyres it will be far to deep to push the front of the car through anyway .

I know of someone who bought 4 for a beemer at £30 each delivered to the UK as against £110 each new.

Also research the tyres, many are good in snow but diabolical in the wet

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By nature winter tyres will generally be better in the wet if anything.

Here is a comparison between the Snowtrac 3's I got in 2010 and the Potenza RE050A's that came with the car and I'm sure you can guess which is better in the wet

multispoke said:

I would be tempted just to go for 15 inch steelies and 'cheap' winter tyres. Buy a spare 16 inch Abarth standard alloy - you often see one on ebay for sale (often they're a little scratched - but that shouldn't matter) and put a matching 'normal' tyre on it. I would also get a Marea spare (if it could be tested !) to leave in the boot so you have the option of carrying a 'light' spare.

I wouldn't be happy with mixing a winter and 'summer' tyre on the same axle.
The steelie and winter tyre just needs to be used generally for about 3 months - ok winter came early last year.
If you're into tyre rotation you could include the new full sized spare as part of the rotation to stretch the overall life of the tyres.
I think carrying a full sized spare in boot is carrying a lot of unnecessary weight unless you're done a long journey into the 'back end of nowhere'.

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But you're more or less ignoring what Grimwau is saying.

If you're going to carry a spare it might as well be a full sized one because as you won't need to swap tyres around if the puncture is on the front. If you had a puncture on the front you could put the spare 15" wheel on the front and then get yourself somewhere safe to rotate the tyres so that you've got the spare on the rear.

A winter tyre would be absolutely fine as a spare, the braking and traction characteristics of a winter tyre are going to be far closer to those of a summer tyre than a space saver.

I wouldn't have a problem driving around for a week on three 16" summer tyres and a winter tyre. It gives you the option of being able to order in an exact match for your current tyres or a paid of tyres that you really want, rather than having a space saver and having to turn up to a tyre place and have a cheng shee woo flung dung tyre fitted because of the limitations of a space saver.

Like I said before

Full size spare > slightly smaller width but same diameter tyre > bicycle tyre > tyre spunk.

306maxi said:

By nature winter tyres will generally be better in the wet if anything.

Here is a comparison between the Snowtrac 3's I got in 2010 and the Potenza RE050A's that came with the car and I'm sure you can guess which is better in the wet

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I was offered a set for £500 to go on the Skoda, I did some research on the canadian sites & it was described as a ditchgrabber in the wet, totally unpredictable & with a mind of its own, also transpired they were of "chinese" manufacture. Several others had less than glowing reports for wet weather performance as well

The Skodas 4WD & managed admirably on the std Dunlops.

Stuart J said:

they were of "chinese" manufacture.

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There's your problem.

I've only ever purchased Michelin, Pirelli, Continental or Vredestein tyres for my cars and the only tyres I've ever had a problem with were the Pirelli's and to be fair to them they were an ancient design and I think the tyres were a few years old. If you start buying stuff designed or made in China then I think you're going to have trouble.

Vredestein's cost me something like 50 or 60 pounds a corner and are fantastic in the wet. You can drive through puddles where the left hand tyres are going through a deep puddle and the rights are on dry road and the car doesn't seem to move about at all and just goes straight. Usually on the summer tyres you'd have to steer towards the middle of the road to counter the aquaplaning.

As always the difference between good tyres and bad tyres is amazing.

Our Subaru manages OK on summer tyres in terms of traction but the wife did have a 90 degree spin on ice. 4wd won't help you stop sadly.

Multispoke, Maxi seeems to have interpreted my intentions correctly, i.e. a full size spare, albeit with a winter type tyre would both negate the need to swap wheels front to rear in the event of a front tyre puncture and with hardly any restriction on speed or driving style.

As I stated previously, it would only be carried onboard when contemplating a trip so the weight consideration in that case would be more than offset by the peace of mind I would have.

:idea: Of course I might just get one full size wheel/tyre to use as a spare as down south we don't really suffer from bad winters like other parts of the UK. :devil:

306maxi said:

But you're more or less ignoring what Grimwau is saying.

If you're going to carry a spare it might as well be a full sized one because as you won't need to swap tyres around if the puncture is on the front. If you had a puncture on the front you could put the spare 15" wheel on the front and then get yourself somewhere safe to rotate the tyres so that you've got the spare on the rear.

A winter tyre would be absolutely fine as a spare, the braking and traction characteristics of a winter tyre are going to be far closer to those of a summer tyre than a space saver.

I wouldn't have a problem driving around for a week on three 16" summer tyres and a winter tyre. It gives you the option of being able to order in an exact match for your current tyres or a paid of tyres that you really want, rather than having a space saver and having to turn up to a tyre place and have a cheng shee woo flung dung tyre fitted because of the limitations of a space saver.

Like I said before

Full size spare > slightly smaller width but same diameter tyre > bicycle tyre > tyre spunk.

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I would be quite happy to use a light spare like the Marea one (if it fitted - now it still hasn't been tested ) and I would rate as being a bit more that a bicycle tyre ! This would be used for getting 'home' and should be more than adequate. The Abarth is all about a car that is both performance and economy. Why carry the weight of a small child in the back if you can get away with something lighter. For long journeys where you're 'up to speed' the heavier 'real' spare wheel wouldn't make that much difference.

multispoke said:

I would be quite happy to use a light spare like the Marea one (if it fitted - now it still hasn't been tested ) and I would rate as being a bit more that a bicycle tyre ! This would be used for getting 'home' and should be more than adequate. The Abarth is all about a car that is both performance and economy. Why carry the weight of a small child in the back if you can get away with something lighter. For long journeys where you're 'up to speed' the heavier 'real' spare wheel wouldn't make that much difference.

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Perhaps YOU would be happy, but this thread is about Grimwau and not yourself so please stop trying to impose your view when Grimwau has said a couple of times now that he feels differently about things Perhaps people don't just want to get home, but want to continue on with their journey without an artificial speed limit and a distance limit (you do know space savers have a distance limit right?) on the use of the space saver. A full size spare or a slightly narrower one will enable you to continue on at the speed limit for an indefinite period of time.

I like Grimwau, am happier to carrying a full size or slightly narrower spare for longer journeys and am happy to use the space saver the rest of the time.

306maxi said:

Perhaps YOU would be happy, but this thread is about Grimwau and not yourself so please stop trying to impose your view when Grimwau has said a couple of times now that he feels differently about things Perhaps people don't just want to get home, but want to continue on with their journey without an artificial speed limit and a distance limit (you do know space savers have a distance limit right?) on the use of the space saver. A full size spare or a slightly narrower one will enable you to continue on at the speed limit for an indefinite period of time.

I like Grimwau, am happier to carrying a full size or slightly narrower spare for longer journeys and am happy to use the space saver the rest of the time.

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Maxi - you're driving a 1.2 not an Abarth. I'm only driving a 1.4 so I'll can really 'talk' so I keep quiet. Performance is not an issue for you. I think it's important to allow people to express an opinion given that is supposedly to be an open friendly forum .

multispoke said:

Maxi - you're driving a 1.2 not an Abarth. I'm only driving a 1.4 so I can really 'talk' so I keep quiet. Performance is not an issue for you. I think it's important to allow people to express an opinion given that is supposedly to be an open friendly forum .

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What does it matter whether it's an Abarth, a 1.2 or a twinair? If Grimwau is in the south of France as he has a puncture it's all the same. Opinions are fine, but when someone comes on here asking advice and clearly states a couple of times that he doesn't really want to use one then that's that. Just like if I suggest that winter tyres are a good option for someone and they explicitly state that they don't want to or feel that they don't need to use them then I have to accept that.

Performance IS an issue for me, don't think that because I bought the least powerful variant of the 500 that I don't care about performance because you couldn't be more wrong.

Now can we please continue on with giving Grimwau advice if he still needs/wants it and stop ignoring what he's saying?

Now, come on guys, as multispoke says, this is a friendly forum and anyone can express an opinion or offer a suggestion, just in case the OP might have overlooked something in the original post.

Expressing alternative ideas/opinions are always welcome as far as I am concerned and don't forget, Daniel, you are a top man at doing just that.

Thanks to some of your "opinions" I have reconsidered one or two things over the years, the winter tyres being a case in point, so it is important to share experiences for just such a reason. I haven't had a problem with anything that has been posted so far but I would hate to see an argument start over something I have (or haven't) said in this thread.

ps. Daniel, you missed out a comma which has completely altered the meaning of the sentence below, lol. :devil:

I might even include it in my sig, Ha! Ha!

306maxi said:

.
I like Grimwau, am happier to carrying a full size or slightly narrower spare for longer journeys and am happy to use the space saver the rest of the time.

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Comma fail!

I do like you though I liked Notts more though

:yeahthat: ......... Hard act to follow! :worship:

Phew, just seen the last few posts Everybody happy now??

Hi grajo, Yeah! all done and dusted.