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Engine mount snapped in my Fiat 500 2011 Lounge

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Engine mount snapped in my Fiat 500 2011 Lounge

So sorry to hear this Ellie.

I don't know what you can do really. I see the garage you bought the car from is of course not a FIAT dealership.

It's very hard to see what FIAT can do as the car is out of the three year warranty now. I doubt you would be able to prove that this fault has indeed happened/began to happen before you took it to the FIAT dealership in April.

Now I'm a little bit lost on the whole thing, but to clarify - the last service was done by a "FIAT approved garage". Within the FIAT network, you either have the main dealers that do the whole lot (i.e. sales/service work/warranty work etc), or the service/warranty only dealerships who do not sell new cars. The easiest way to check is to go onto fiat.co.uk and click Dealer Locator in the top right; if the garage that did the service is not on there (either under "Dealership" or "Service Network") then I don't really see where the Fiat approval comes from.
 
EllieBoxall said:
It's definitely not fit for purpose now as it isn't drivable, but I have no idea if the engine mount has had this problem before I bought the car. Any advice? Thank you
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Ellie, I too am sorry to read what has happened to you.

I'm just thinking off the top of my head here about how you might be able to pursue this. Did you by any chance pay at least £100 of the purchase price of the car by credit card? This is something I always do with any purchase over £100, as it does give you some extra consumer purchase protection. With our TA we bought last November, I paid the entire balance after PX using a credit card (cos I got cashback on it lol!).

I hope you get it sorted.
 
An engine mounting should have a longer life than this.
There are three engine mounting points, one at the "front" end of the engine, at the right hand side of the car, another at the gearbox end, and a tie bar at the rear to control the rotational movement as power is applied and reduced. Each of these has several components, some rubber bits and some brackets of various sizes and complexity.

The rubber components will deteriorate through age, contamination and use and can be expected to be replaceable at some time. When the rubber component fails, it is usually designed for the engine to drop a little, metal bits will knock but the engine should still be held in. From ePER I can't see how the gearbox mount fits, so can't be certain of this one. Failure of the tie bar is a common replacement item on some models, Puntos I think are the most common ones reported here. But when this goes, the most likely other failure is the exhaust flexi section. However, it is dependent on the driver realising something is wrong and stopping driving it to prevent further damage.

If the lower mountings have been hit, rocks, speed bumps, other debris on the road, etc., then there will be an argument as to when this occurred, and should the damage have been visible before sale, etc., but even if you are certain you have not hit anything, you can't prove it.

Frequent violent starts will stress the mountings and can detach the rubber parts from their housings. Again, impossible to prove that it was the previous owners, not you, or that this should have been noticeable prior to sale.

The main brackets should last the life of the vehicle. But if they have been disturbed at some time, and not tightened properly, any movement can lead to fracture. With the car's low mileage, this would be doubtful, but must be considered.

If the vehicle has been involved in a collision, engine mountings may have been damaged, but proving that any stresses should have been noted then will be difficult, unless a stress crack is quite dirty inside demonstrating its presence over a longer period than your ownership.

What we really need to know here, is exactly which mounting has "broken" and which component it is. Rubber, metal, etc. Then, the failed components need to be examined to determine if they have broken prematurely, or have been subject to outside forces. From here it may be possible to make a better argument for help from Fiat or the selling dealer.

If you are a member of a motoring organisation, contact them. AA and RAC used to have engineers who would inspect and argue the case on behalf of members, but I don't know if these services still exist. Asking costs little.

Insist that the repairer retains all replaced components, without contaminating them, so that an examination can possible determine what failed, and hopefully why. If a casting has failed without any apparent outside influences, and the car has not been driven after the failure, then there would be a good argument for Fiat to pay.
 
jrkitching said:
I don't think anyone is suggesting that it wasn't - it wouldn't have run far with a broken engine mount! Sadly I think any competent engineer would have to conclude that the engine mount wasn't broken when you first took delivery of the vehicle.

I don't think it would be difficult for the supplier to show that the fault you currently have wasn't present at the time you purchased the car.

Unfortunately I think you've just been very unlucky.
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After speaking with Aldershot Fiat where my car is, he has said I have been very unlucky, there is no damage to the car anywhere, it is in great condition and the engine mount just out-right snapped. Worrying on a three year old car that has barely been driven :(.
 
portland_bill said:
An engine mounting should have a longer life than this.
There are three engine mounting points, one at the "front" end of the engine, at the right hand side of the car, another at the gearbox end, and a tie bar at the rear to control the rotational movement as power is applied and reduced. Each of these has several components, some rubber bits and some brackets of various sizes and complexity.

The rubber components will deteriorate through age, contamination and use and can be expected to be replaceable at some time. When the rubber component fails, it is usually designed for the engine to drop a little, metal bits will knock but the engine should still be held in. From ePER I can't see how the gearbox mount fits, so can't be certain of this one. Failure of the tie bar is a common replacement item on some models, Puntos I think are the most common ones reported here. But when this goes, the most likely other failure is the exhaust flexi section. However, it is dependent on the driver realising something is wrong and stopping driving it to prevent further damage.

If the lower mountings have been hit, rocks, speed bumps, other debris on the road, etc., then there will be an argument as to when this occurred, and should the damage have been visible before sale, etc., but even if you are certain you have not hit anything, you can't prove it.

Frequent violent starts will stress the mountings and can detach the rubber parts from their housings. Again, impossible to prove that it was the previous owners, not you, or that this should have been noticeable prior to sale.

The main brackets should last the life of the vehicle. But if they have been disturbed at some time, and not tightened properly, any movement can lead to fracture. With the car's low mileage, this would be doubtful, but must be considered.

If the vehicle has been involved in a collision, engine mountings may have been damaged, but proving that any stresses should have been noted then will be difficult, unless a stress crack is quite dirty inside demonstrating its presence over a longer period than your ownership.

What we really need to know here, is exactly which mounting has "broken" and which component it is. Rubber, metal, etc. Then, the failed components need to be examined to determine if they have broken prematurely, or have been subject to outside forces. From here it may be possible to make a better argument for help from Fiat or the selling dealer.

If you are a member of a motoring organisation, contact them. AA and RAC used to have engineers who would inspect and argue the case on behalf of members, but I don't know if these services still exist. Asking costs little.

Insist that the repairer retains all replaced components, without contaminating them, so that an examination can possible determine what failed, and hopefully why. If a casting has failed without any apparent outside influences, and the car has not been driven after the failure, then there would be a good argument for Fiat to pay.
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you, and everyone else says the same thing too. It just shouldn't happen on such a new car. I haven't asked for much information because it all goes over my head but I will speak with the garage and find out what component caused it. All I know from the mechanic is that the engine mount out-right snapped, there is no corrosion and the car is in perfect condition, no previous faults or damage. The minute I heard a noise from my car I pulled over and hasn't been driven since. It's not good!
 
EllieBoxall said:
I completely agree with you, and everyone else says the same thing too. It just shouldn't happen on such a new car. I haven't asked for much information because it all goes over my head but I will speak with the garage and find out what component caused it. All I know from the mechanic is that the engine mount out-right snapped, there is no corrosion and the car is in perfect condition, no previous faults or damage. The minute I heard a noise from my car I pulled over and hasn't been driven since. It's not good!
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did you ask fiat customer services about the situation? maybe a contribution from their side?
 
Thank you everyone, the situation has just got worse. Fiat head office were investigating my problem, they asked for a full report and photos from the mechanic of my car at Fiat Aldershot, they came back and asked for more detailed photos so at the moment my car is completely stripped. Yesterday afternoon I received a call from head office to say: unfortunately they would not be helping me out with any goodwill in this situation because the car was written off late last year (something I was not made aware of when I bought the car) and that they have no record of any repairs or where they were done. They also informed me that the car has never been registered for any services or MOT's apart from the ones done on the car in February this year by Fleet cars who I bought it from. When I bought the car it was sold with 'full service history' I looked at the service book and saw two Fiat stamps with an ID number, postcode and telephone number. The postcode doesn't exist and the telephone number is an old mans home. I've no idea what I've been driving for the last 5 months and thank the lord I was driving in stop start traffic and not on the motorway. There is a HPI check with the car from 02/02/14 which says everything is clear. I'm really grateful for all your input so far but if anyone can help any further id be even more grateful! Thank you
 
EllieBoxall said:
After speaking with Aldershot Fiat where my car is, he has said I have been very unlucky, there is no damage to the car anywhere, it is in great condition and the engine mount just out-right snapped. Worrying on a three year old car that has barely been driven :(.
Click to expand...

Although Aldershot Fiat have contacted Fiat for a contribution and been refused, it is time for you to contact Fiat Customer Services direct.

Ensure that ALL the replaced components are retained, either by you or the repairer, as there will be no contribution for anything lost.

If you are a member of a motoring organisation, contact them.

If all that fails, post pics of the failed mount on here, sooner rather than later as the longer you wait the less likely you are to get anything.

Fiat should be very concerned about a failed engine mounting. Modern production techniques would suggest that whatever caused this, will strike again.
 
EllieBoxall said:
TWhen I bought the car it was sold with 'full service history' I looked at the service book and saw two Fiat stamps with an ID number, postcode and telephone number. The postcode doesn't exist and the telephone number is an old mans home. I've no idea what I've been driving for the last 5 months and thank the lord I was driving in stop start traffic and not on the motorway. There is a HPI check with the car from 02/02/14 which says everything is clear. I'm really grateful for all your input so far but if anyone can help any further id be even more grateful! Thank you
Click to expand...

This is why i always tell people stamps in a book mean nothing if they are not back up with receipts, i feel for you :(

portland_bill said:
Fiat should be very concerned about a failed engine mounting. Modern production techniques would suggest that whatever caused this, will strike again.
Click to expand...

but its a crashed repaired lemon with fake history, the mount could have been weakened in the crash.
Its time for trading standards now and a case made against the supplying garage
 
portland_bill said:
Although Aldershot Fiat have contacted Fiat for a contribution and been refused, it is time for you to contact Fiat Customer Services direct.

Ensure that ALL the replaced components are retained, either by you or the repairer, as there will be no contribution for anything lost.

If you are a member of a motoring organisation, contact them.

If all that fails, post pics of the failed mount on here, sooner rather than later as the longer you wait the less likely you are to get anything.

Fiat should be very concerned about a failed engine mounting. Modern production techniques would suggest that whatever caused this, will strike again.
Click to expand...

PB, I guess you posted this before seeing Ellie's post a couple of minutes before. Given Ellie's latest revelations, this clearly isn't Fiat's fault or responsibility.

EllieBoxall said:
When I bought it (01/03/14) from 'Fleet Car Sales'
Click to expand...

Ellie, can you just confirm you bought it from this dealer.

jrkitching said:
Unfortunately I think you've just been very unlucky.
Click to expand...

I take this back. You haven't been unlucky, you've been scammed.

It appears you've bought a previously written off car with a fake service history and clear HPI check.

If the dealer you bought the car from is a reputable one, and this was an honest mistake, they'll refund your money right now.

If they won't give you you money back, I'd say that Trading Standards is the next logical step.

Ellie, did you buy the car on finance? If so, then you may also have a claim against the finance company.
 
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My earlier post overlapped with Ellie's latest.

Broken mount quite likely to have been caused due to collision.

Time to go back to the seller. As said above they should refund full purchase price, plus current expenses without question. If they do not, visit Trading Standards on Monday.

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

PS. I see Fleet Car Sales have a Facebook page. If they don't offer a full refund, time to post on their page I think. Just a summary of the situation, without anger or accusation. Along the lines of "Bought car, service history and clean HPI, engine mounting broken, now found written off and service history not real." Add a few more words, but nothing inflammatory, just facts. They may well remove your post, but all their followers will have a copy on their pages.
 
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If they are sincere about the text on their website front page, they will refund without fuss, as it would appear that they have themselves been duped.

If they offer a replacement vehicle, I'd guess it would be ok, as they will be very careful selecting and checking it.
 
portland_bill said:
If they are sincere about the text on their website front page, they will refund without fuss, as it would appear that they have themselves been duped.

If they offer a replacement vehicle, I'd guess it would be ok, as they will be very careful selecting and checking it.
Click to expand...


Yep, a good opportunity to negotiate a really good deal on a highly speced car.
 
accident damage was my 1st though when you said it was broken at such low mileage,

then you said other things that allayed my fears .

TBH,
nothing is ever "invisibly mended" a garage that have had your vehicle for 10 days or more should have spotted the signs MUCH sooner,
like when working on it..

as others have said,
approach supplying garage,
then trading standards,
did you pay via card..??

to be frank these type of "car sales" outfits just buy from auction..so it may be news to them.. BUT they should still have insurances to cover YOU,

Charlie
 
Cat C,D must be disclosed, if private sold as seen, if trader the money can be recouped, if main dealer then no questions asked money back. Get trading standards involved,
Usually local paper threat is enough to solve this, no main dealer wants that.
I think they are not doing HPI's or forgot, or maybe it slipped through the net as a trade in.
I've known it happen recently.

But don't forget the words "fiat used approved"
Which means they approve selling written off cars?
Especially as fiat said"no evidence of fiat approved repairs"
 
GrandeGuy said:
Cat C,D must be disclosed, if private sold as seen, if trader the money can be recouped, if main dealer then no questions asked money back.

But don't forget the words "fiat used approved"
Click to expand...

This picture on the Fleet Car Sales website looks to me to be about as far away from a franchised dealership as you can get.

The latest reported financial information for this company is here.

Tbh decent low mileage TA's are likely to stay within the franchised dealer network and seeing one on a forecourt such as this one would have set off alarm bells for me.

Ellie - please can you confirm this is where you bought your car?

dave said:
its very strange that it was hpi clear in february and sold only 1 month later undisclosed recorded and repaired.
Click to expand...

This highlights the importance of carrying out your own HPI check before purchasing a used car and not relying on the one provided by the seller.
 
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jrkitching said:
This picture on the Fleet Car Sales website looks to me to be about as far away from a franchised dealership as you can get.

The latest reported financial information for this company is here.

Tbh decent low mileage TA's are likely to stay within the franchised dealer network and seeing one on a forecourt such as this one would have set off alarm bells for me.

Ellie - please can you confirm this is where you bought your car?



This highlights the importance of carrying out your own HPI check before purchasing a used car and not relying on the one provided by the seller.
Click to expand...


Ahhh
Didn't see that link . . .
 
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