Engine mount snapped in my Fiat 500 2011 Lounge

[EllieBoxall]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and I have just posted my problem in a thread called 'My 62 Twinair has broken Already'

I realise this hasn't had much activity recently so I am re-posting in a new thread, I hope that is OK.

I wonder whether anyone can help me, I have a 0.9 twinair lounge, 2011 plate at 18,095 miles. My warranty ran out on 19/04/14.

Last week I heard a clunk in my car whilst driving home from work in stop start traffic and pulled over immediately, recovery came out to check my car and told me that the engine mount has snapped and my engine has dropped, being three months out of my warranty I was unsure what to do, the recovery man advised I called Bishops Fiat in Aldershot where a very helpful man in the service team requested to see my car straight away, having had a brief chat with him since my car has been delivered there last week it appears not only has the engine dropped out but its taken the drive shaft with it and moved the radiator, I've been told to wait to hear back from them as they need to strip the car to see the full extent of the damage but am I crazy in thinking a three year old car which was serviced and MOT'd at the end of February should not be in this much of a state? I bought the car on 1st March since then I have done around 1200 (mainly town) miles. Any advice I would be very very grateful of. I'm told Fiat should take responsibility for this from a couple of mechanics and dealers I have spoken with, whether they do or not is a new matter.

Thank you!!

 

[jrkitching]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and I have just posted my problem in a thread called 'My 62 Twinair has broken Already'

I realise this hasn't had much activity recently so I am re-posting in a new thread, I hope that is OK.

Hello and welcome :wave:

Sorry to hear of your problem.

Yes, this deserves a new thread. I've tidied up the old one for you.

It's the first time I've heard of a 500 engine mount failing in service. I'd be curious to know if the car has any previous history which would have caused the engine mount to be disturbed.

Fiat may at their discretion choose to make a contribution towards the cost of the repair, but as the car is now out of warranty they have no legal obligation to you as second owner. Any claim you have will be against the dealer you bought the car from. Even secondhand goods have to be fit for purpose and I'd say it's unreasonable for a 2011 car to fail in this way less than 1200 miles and six months from when you bought it, so you may be able to claim from the dealership that sold you the car.

If you bought it privately, you're probably going to have to foot the bill yourself unless Fiat make a goodwill gesture.

 

[portland_bill]

Does "62 Twinair" mean a 62 on the number plate? If so, it was registered from 1st September 2012 - 28 Feb 2013. Even the earliest is under 2 years old. Surely still under warranty. Don't they have a 3 year warranty?

Then you describe it as a 2011. So when exactly was it new?

 

[frupi]

Does "62 Twinair" mean a 62 on the number plate? If so, it was registered from 1st September 2012 - 28 Feb 2013. Even the earliest is under 2 years old. Surely still under warranty. Don't they have a 3 year warranty?

Then you describe it as a 2011. So when exactly was it new?

Yes, I'm a bit confused on this one too

Our old POP was a 2011car on a 60 plate.

If the third year warranty applies on this car as a second owner, as a new owner you must pay £27 to transfer the 3rd year warranty into your name. My Wife did exactly this when we bought our old POP which was six months old when we bought it. Some people forget to do this or bizarrely, think paying £27 is chucking money away. I assure people that paying the £27 is a very wise move, it saved us over 1k in warranty repairs on our old POP.

 

[TrevC]

The 62 Twinair referred to was the title of the thread this was moved from, and referred to a different car and problem.
I'll be interested in the outcome of this, Ellie, as I have a 2011 Twinair lounge. I've had mine from new, and yes it is out of warranty. Zero faults or failures after 26,000 miles, so far. (That'll be the kiss of death, then!)

 

[EllieBoxall]

Hello,

Yes I'm new to the forum and first posted my problem in somebody elses thread about their 62 twin air, sorry.

My car was registered on 19/04/2011 and is a fiat 500 lounge twinair.

When I bought it (01/03/14) from 'Fleet Car Sales' I still had one months FIAT warranty, I took it to Fiat in Slyfield (Guildford) to enquire about my next service, they looked up my registration on their computer and printed out some information about mileage and services etc. I was never told about changing the warranty over (there would be no point me paying £27 for another year as it only had a month left when I bought it anyway) or I was never offered / contacted regarding extending my warranty.

My car is currently at Bishops Fiat in Aldershot where I've been told the engine mount has snapped, my engine has dropped out and broken the drive shaft and done some small damage to my gear box, I was advised by Fiat customer service to have Bishops Aldershot submit a goodwill claim for the repair costs as the car has only done 18,000 miles and is three months out of warranty, this claim was rejected on Friday because I'm not a 'LOYAL' customer of Fiat due to the fact it hasn't been serviced at a Fiat dealership (I've only had the car since March and haven't had any work performed on the car, it was serviced and MOT'd in February by a Fiat approved garage). So now my fight begins, should I have to pay £950 to repair a three year old car with only 18,000 miles on it and the engine drops out????? Luckily I was driving in stop start traffic, what if I had been on the motorway doing 70 MPH?

I also forgot to mention that Fiat Aldershot informed me that there has been a recall on my car for the turbo, he said I wouldnt be aware of this but it has been an outstanding recall for some time... why had I not been contacted about this?

Come on FIAT up your game.

Advice, thoughts welcome!

 

[varesecrazy]

Hello,

Yes I'm new to the forum and first posted my problem in somebody elses thread about their 62 twin air, sorry.

I was advised by Fiat customer service to have Bishops Aldershot submit a goodwill claim for the repair costs as the car has only done 18,000 miles and is three months out of warranty, this claim was rejected on Friday because I'm not a 'LOYAL' customer of Fiat due to the fact it hasn't been serviced at a Fiat dealership (I've only had the car since March and haven't had any work performed on the car, it was serviced and MOT'd in February by a Fiat approved garage). So now my fight begins

Come on FIAT up your game.

Advice, thoughts welcome!

what garage did the service.. has it been properly serviced.. or just had "oil changes"..?

 

[zanes]

Hello,

Yes I'm new to the forum and first posted my problem in somebody elses thread about their 62 twin air, sorry.

My car was registered on 19/04/2011 and is a fiat 500 lounge twinair.

When I bought it (01/03/14) from 'Fleet Car Sales' I still had one months FIAT warranty, I took it to Fiat in Slyfield (Guildford) to enquire about my next service, they looked up my registration on their computer and printed out some information about mileage and services etc. I was never told about changing the warranty over (there would be no point me paying £27 for another year as it only had a month left when I bought it anyway) or I was never offered / contacted regarding extending my warranty.

My car is currently at Bishops Fiat in Aldershot where I've been told the engine mount has snapped, my engine has dropped out and broken the drive shaft and done some small damage to my gear box, I was advised by Fiat customer service to have Bishops Aldershot submit a goodwill claim for the repair costs as the car has only done 18,000 miles and is three months out of warranty, this claim was rejected on Friday because I'm not a 'LOYAL' customer of Fiat due to the fact it hasn't been serviced at a Fiat dealership (I've only had the car since March and haven't had any work performed on the car, it was serviced and MOT'd in February by a Fiat approved garage). So now my fight begins, should I have to pay £950 to repair a three year old car with only 18,000 miles on it and the engine drops out????? Luckily I was driving in stop start traffic, what if I had been on the motorway doing 70 MPH?

I also forgot to mention that Fiat Aldershot informed me that there has been a recall on my car for the turbo, he said I wouldnt be aware of this but it has been an outstanding recall for some time... why had I not been contacted about this?

Come on FIAT up your game.

Advice, thoughts welcome!

I don't normally think along these lines; but is it fit for purpose?

 

[EllieBoxall]

what garage did the service.. has it been properly serviced.. or just had "oil changes"..?

Yes just oil changes I questioned this at the time but because it was only 17,000 miles they said it doesn't need a full service until 20,000 miles, which is why I took it to Fiat dealer in Slyfield Guildford and they also told me the same . Where do i go from here? Do I take it up with the dealership (fleet cars) who sold it to me or is this something major that needs to be taken up with Fiat? Surely its a Fiat problem because an engine mount should never ever break??? Thanks!

 

[EllieBoxall]

I don't normally think along these lines; but is it fit for purpose?

It's definitely not fit for purpose now as it isn't drivable, but I have no idea if the engine mount has had this problem before I bought the car. Any advice? Thank you

 

[varesecrazy]

AFAIK the service should be 18,000 miles OR 2 years,
obviously it was 2.5 years old when they sold it you so - Should have done a FULL service.

I would take it up with the supplying FIAT dealer
( where YOU bought it), use e-mail initially and CC it to the FIAT CS person you've been dealing with,

FIAT should foot the bill as it's probably a structural failure - however the lack of FULL servicing IS a concern( also NO absolute guarantee of abuse/ accidental damage) prior to YOUR ownership,

Charlie

 

[TrevC]

Ellie, sorry to hear about your situation, it's difficult to advise what to do next. You could try contacting the company you bought it from and threaten them with Trading Standards perhaps.
Regarding the turbo issue, this was a "Service Campaign" rather than a recall. My car is about a month older than yours, and I was told of it when I had an (optional) oil change after 1 year. They replaced the turbo (at no cost) and stamped the Service Campaign section in the service book. Because it isn't a safety related recall, Fiat have no obligation to contact you, they rely on the dealers doing that when you have it serviced.
I'm guessing that you got it for a good price as an ex-fleet car, so maybe you can mentally offset that against the repair cost. Also, it may be worth getting a quote from an independent garage, although I guess it's stranded at Bishops.
Coincidentally, it was the Aldershot dealer that did my oil change and turbo, but they were Mill Lane Fiat then. They went bust, and some months later Bishops started it up again. Don't know if it's the same staff, but I found the original folk pleasant and helpful.

 

[EllieBoxall]

AFAIK the service should be 18,000 miles OR 2 years,
obviously it was 2.5 years old when they sold it you so - Should have done a FULL service.

I would take it up with the supplying FIAT dealer
( where YOU bought it), use e-mail initially and CC it to the FIAT CS person you've been dealing with,

FIAT should foot the bill as it's probably a structural failure - however the lack of FULL servicing IS a concern( also NO absolute guarantee of abuse/ accidental damage) prior to YOUR ownership,

Charlie

I believe the car had a full service at two years but I'm not certain because my book is with the car in the garage, there are three stamps in the service section, one of which was from and oil and filters check in February. Do you happen to know if when buying a car from a dealership (like fleet car sales) if I'm supposed to get three or six months as standard warranty? I was offered three months but when Bishops Fiat Aldershot contacted me they said as a standard it should be 6 months, the mechanic at bishops then called Fleet car sales and told them this to which they said I 'rejected the six months' which is a lie as I was never offered this. I agree with you about the structural failure, I'm worried about the car in general, I will be moving onto something else once this is fixed, just for peace of mind. Fleet car sales are incredibly unhelpful and have completely washed their hands of me, I am getting nowhere fast with this

 

[EllieBoxall]

Ellie, sorry to hear about your situation, it's difficult to advise what to do next. You could try contacting the company you bought it from and threaten them with Trading Standards perhaps.
Regarding the turbo issue, this was a "Service Campaign" rather than a recall. My car is about a month older than yours, and I was told of it when I had an (optional) oil change after 1 year. They replaced the turbo (at no cost) and stamped the Service Campaign section in the service book. Because it isn't a safety related recall, Fiat have no obligation to contact you, they rely on the dealers doing that when you have it serviced.
I'm guessing that you got it for a good price as an ex-fleet car, so maybe you can mentally offset that against the repair cost. Also, it may be worth getting a quote from an independent garage, although I guess it's stranded at Bishops.
Coincidentally, it was the Aldershot dealer that did my oil change and turbo, but they were Mill Lane Fiat then. They went bust, and some months later Bishops started it up again. Don't know if it's the same staff, but I found the original folk pleasant and helpful.

Thanks for letting me know about the recall, they have ordered the part and are going to fix it, I don't see much point when the rest of the car is worthless right now! I wonder why it wasn't flagged up when I took my car into Fiat in Guildford in April. I spoke to my garage about the problems with my car and he said it needs to be with Fiat as of it being a structural issue, I'm sure I could take it elsewhere, but like you say its stranded and my cover only covers one pick up per fault! They are called Fleet car sales because of the location, Fleet in Surrey. It is a normal Fiat 500, I paid £8000 for in in March this year. Do you happen to know if when buying a car from a dealership (like fleet car sales) if I'm supposed to get three or six months as standard warranty? I was offered three months but when Bishops Fiat Aldershot contacted me they said as a standard it should be 6 months, the mechanic at bishops then called Fleet car sales and told them this to which they said I 'rejected the six months' which is a lie as I was never offered this. I have just asked somebody else this question too but would appreciate any help at the moment. Thank you

 

[varesecrazy]

I believe the car had a full service at two years but I'm not certain because my book is with the car in the garage, there are three stamps in the service section, one of which was from and oil and filters check in February. Do you happen to know if when buying a car from a dealership (like fleet car sales) if I'm supposed to get three or six months as standard warranty? I was offered three months but when Bishops Fiat Aldershot contacted me they said as a standard it should be 6 months, the mechanic at bishops then called Fleet car sales and told them this to which they said I 'rejected the six months' which is a lie as I was never offered this. I agree with you about the structural failure, I'm worried about the car in general, I will be moving onto something else once this is fixed, just for peace of mind. Fleet car sales are incredibly unhelpful and have completely washed their hands of me, I am getting nowhere fast with this

Hi,
personally - I would send the e-mail out querying the servicing to BOTH dealers you have been in touch with, and CC FIAT UK Customer Services,
( I believe all Maindealer servicing should somehow be recorded by FIAT UK- in Warranty period) this appears to be the sticking point with FIAT UK.

I fully understand you wanting to have a "clean break" after it's fixed,
but there are MANY happy TA owners on here, and we've had very little trouble..
yours could well be a 1-off,
if it were more common you may have more luck with FIAT UK

charlie

 

[jrkitching]

Ellie, I'm truly sorry to hear the rest of your story and can only imagine what a nightmare this must be for you.

Your only legal redress is against the garage you bought it from and IMO I personally wouldn't want to take the case through the Courts on the evidence you currently have. The car was fit for purpose at the time you bought it and it is reasonable to expect that there is some risk of failure on a used car once it's outside of its manufacturers warranty. It's an uncommon fault that couldn't have been reasonably predicted by either yourself or the supplying dealership. The bottom line is that you have been very unlucky but unless you can get a goodwill gesture from the place you bought it then sadly I think you'll likely end up having to foot this bill yourself.

I can understand you wanting to be rid of the car after this; if you trade it in you can reasonably expect to be offered somewhere in the region of £6000-£6300 after it's been fixed.

I wish I could be more positive but realistically I think you'll have a hard time putting a legal case together on this one.

 

[TrevC]

Ellie, I just Googled used car warranties legal minimum, and a site called Lawgistics states that from 2003, under the Sale of Goods act, the retailer has to prove the vehicle was correct at the time of purchase if the claim is made within 6 months (EC Directive 1999/44/EC). I suggest you quote this to them, and contact your local trading standards office.
It's a shame this has happened to you as the 500 is generally pretty reliable. I can quite understand you not wanting it any more though, and from what I have read on this forum, Fiat customer service is pretty rubbish.

 

[jrkitching]

Ellie, I just Googled used car warranties legal minimum, and a site called Lawgistics states that from 2003, under the Sale of Goods act, the retailer has to prove the vehicle was correct at the time of purchase if the claim is made within 6 months (EC Directive 1999/44/EC). I suggest you quote this to them, and contact your local trading standards office.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that it wasn't - it wouldn't have run far with a broken engine mount! Sadly I think any competent engineer would have to conclude that the engine mount wasn't broken when you first took delivery of the vehicle.

I don't think it would be difficult for the supplier to show that the fault you currently have wasn't present at the time you purchased the car.

Unfortunately I think you've just been very unlucky.

 

[logger]

...claim was rejected on Friday because I'm not a 'LOYAL' customer of Fiat due to the fact it hasn't been serviced at a Fiat dealership

WOW! My retort would be that a customer with no loyalty to Fiat would be posting detailed images of the broken engine mount, showing how the engine fell out of their late model car all over the Internet. (You would hate other potential Fiat buyers to face the same problem.) Even better if you can post them a link to a temporarily password protected Google album & a youtube video, so they see you have the ability to do so. As a goodwill gesture you would prefer not to make the issue public. As a loyal customer, your preference is to have Fiat repair the car under warranty so they can investigate and mitigate further occurrences.

 

[alanjnr]

WOW! My retort would be that a customer with no loyalty to Fiat would be posting detailed images of the broken engine mount, showing how the engine fell out of their late model car all over the Internet. (You would hate other potential Fiat buyers to face the same problem.) Even better if you can post them a link to a temporarily password protected Google album & a youtube video, so they see you have the ability to do so. As a goodwill gesture you would prefer not to make the issue public. As a loyal customer, your preference is to have Fiat repair the car under warranty so they can investigate and mitigate further occurrences.

A loyal customer to FIAT is someone who buys from FIAT dealers and has full FIAT service history. Not someone who writes a book about a break in the car..some people! WOW!