Hi all i need some advise/help, my daughter's car 2009 500 Sport has developed a problem today in that the gear selection is notchy and sometimes dificult to engage in first and some crunching in reverse, i thought clutch at first, however, it seems to bite ok and no clutch slip so having spoken to the stealers who were as much help as a fart in a space suit simply said it required a new clutch without even bothering to ask any real relevant questions about the symtons, anyway, i then spoke with a local fiat specialist who said that the clutch is probably not disengaging fully and they would look at it free of chargeto fully diagnose,
Has anyone experienced similar and what was the problem.

Hydraulic issue perhaps? Worth trying to re-bleed the clutch, if it improves, it might signify failing clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder seals..

bgunn said:

Hydraulic issue perhaps? Worth trying to re-bleed the clutch, if it improves, it might signify failing clutch master cylinder or slave cylinder seals..

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:yeahthat:

I'll bet (but not my house!) your daughter's car has never had a clutch fluid change.

Something you can check easily for yourself is the fluid level in the clutch master cylinder reservoir. If it's fallen substantially, seal failure is almost certainly your problem, and if it hasn't, it probably still is. Look also under the driver's side pedal area to see if there are any obvious leaks from the master cylinder - easier to do by taking a picture with a camera. The actual clutch itself is probably still ok - but it will quickly wear out if you don't get the problem fixed, as will the synchromesh cones in the gearbox.

Dead right to lack of fluid change, checked master and all seems ok, no leaks although i assume it could have internal problems with no tell tale externally, slave cylinder seems also ok but pushrod does look pretty corroded, i think i will change the slave and flush and replace fluid and go from there, fingers crossed

littlemouse said:

...think i will change the slave and flush and replace fluid and go from there, fingers crossed

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That's exactly what I'd do . You'll just need to remove the battery & tray to get access to the slave cylinder. Bleeding the clutch hydraulics on the 500 is straightforward. Hope it fixes the problem.

Does giving the clutch pedal a couple of quick pumps before holding it down ease the problem? If so, there's probably a minor hydraulic malfunction - change fluid, bleed, if no better, change slave cylinder, then master cylinder; if not it's probably a clutch problem, either a warped plate or some sort of issue with the release bearing, or possibly seepage from gearbox oil seals causing the plate to stick on the splines of the gearbox input shaft. (Could just be engine oil, but taht's much thinner and unlikely to cause sticking.)

I had a similar issue with my Panda 100HP when it was new and Fiat changed the clutch plate.

Got a new slave ordered up, £104 daylight robbery, could of got a pattern part at £39 but thought i would stick with genuine part.

Hopefully will get it on early next week

littlemouse said:

Got a new slave ordered up, £104 daylight robbery, could of got a pattern part at £39 but thought i would stick with genuine part.

Hopefully will get it on early next week

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Tbh on a 500, I don't think a pattern part is a bad idea. A lot of the stuff that Fiat fit as standard is crap.

306maxi said:

Tbh on a 500, I don't think a pattern part is a bad idea. A lot of the stuff that Fiat fit as standard is crap.

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Normally i would agree, pattern parts are just as good if not better asnd far cheaper than genuine 0E parts, but the pattern slave doesnt come complete with a new coiled feed pipe to master, Fiat supply it complete with new pipe connection, just being paranoid about perhaps the pattern part being problematic in trying to reconnect the old pipe, nothing worse than fitting a pattern part only to find out its not right and taking it off again for a refund:bang:

littlemouse said:

the gear selection is notchy and sometimes dificult to engage in first and some crunching in reverse, i thought clutch at first, however, it seems to bite ok and no clutch slip

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my daughters Fiat Idea had same symptoms and i thought same as you no slip so cant be clutch, but after stripping i found it was the clutch https://www.fiatforum.com/tech-talk/315854-does-worn-rear-gearbox-mount.html

dave said:

my daughters Fiat Idea had same symptoms and i thought same as you no slip so cant be clutch, but after stripping i found it was the clutch https://www.fiatforum.com/tech-talk/315854-does-worn-rear-gearbox-mount.html

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Bother and i was realy hoping it was a simple fix, will give the new slave a try anyway, what was wrong with your daughters clutch

the clutch friction plate had worn out, it was an AP clutch that fiat seem to fit OEM now instead of valeo, i replaced it with a valeo from http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/

dave said:

the clutch friction plate had worn out, it was an AP clutch that fiat seem to fit OEM now instead of valeo, i replaced it with a valeo from http://www.carparts4less.co.uk/

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Littlemouse, a worn friction plate isn't usually associated with the clutch not disengaging properly so in Dave's case it may have been co-incidental that after renewing it his problem was cured.

He probably gave the 1st motion shaft splines a good clean up and probably lubed the bearing in the crank either of which could have contributed to the clutch dragging.
I bet he also replaced the cover and bearing so I think that you are still on the right track with sorting the clutch hydraulics first.

However, it might be a good idea to check once the slave cylinder is visible that when someone pushes the clutch pedal fully if the you get full travel at the pushrod. If you do then a new cylinder will not cure the problem as the old one is obviously working properly and the clutch itself is probably the cause.

I hope it is the hydraulics and the new cylinder and fluid change work. Don't forget to keep us up to date with your progress.

grimwau said:

probably lubed the bearing in the crank

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dave said:

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Spigot shaft bearing?

I've not done a clutch since I sold my garage 20 years ago so maybe things have changed but in the end of the crank there was always a bronze bush or needle roller cage that could get dry.

Sorry if my knowledge isn't quite up to date.

grimwau said:

Spigot shaft bearing?

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they have gone, so has the hole they went in so makes clutch alinement harder too

dave said:

they have gone, so has the hole they went in so makes clutch alinement harder too

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I guess I'd better keep my mechanical tips for the classic car sections in that case.

grimwau said:

I guess I'd better keep my mechanical tips for the classic car sections in that case.

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may be is the lack of that making input bearings fail so often these days?