Off Topic Tried a V12 yesterday
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Off Topic Tried a V12 yesterday
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Now that what I call a birthday present,
hang on to that lady she's a good un.
hang on to that lady she's a good un.
the hobbler
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Was that a flight IN or WITH a Spitfire? Where doyoutake your birthday present---Biggin Hill or Westhampnet? (aka Goodwood)
lazylobster
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Morning Tom, was IN the Spitfire
I got plenty of stick time. From Biggin Hill, flew out to Beachy Head. Spectacular.Yes, I married really well, I’m not sure the wife feels that way
the hobbler
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In the nicest possible way---you jammy bugger! I do not like flying, but if I could find the 'spare' money, I would love to do a flight in a Spit. Where we used to live in Felixstowe was right under the flight path from RAF Ben****ers to the coast (we were only a 5 minute walk from the sea) and, especially on bank-holiday days, I used to watch (and hear) Mrs Grace, who keeps her Spitfire at Ben****ers, in her 2-seater version take people for flights and acrobatics over the sea off Old Felixstowe. I could stand on the roof of my shed (it was a fairly big one) and get free "Spitfire time"---sometimes 3 times a day----bliss. When you have heard a Merlin, it is a sound that stays with you for the rest of your life.
lazylobster
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I think I would have used stronger language! The Grace spitfire is well known and she is a great pilot. Yes, the sound of a Merlin engine, once heard, never forgotten. To hear a few of them when the BBMF Lanc and her "little friends" is such a joy.
There was a TV programme on not so long ago about the company and their restore work:
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/inside-the-spitfire-factory
Loved watching this. Roughly min of 2 years work by the team to get one restored to flying condition. I really fancy working there!
lazylobster
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Interesting facts.
The prop blades on the Merlin engined Spit are made of wood!
I always thought metal. Nowadays they are made in Germany (irony) and cost £22k per blade! I guess if you have a ground strike the wood prop would not transmit as much damage as a metal prop. A British company has just got CAA approval for its wood blades so hopefully most operators will fit these when next required.
Engine out overhaul every 500 hours, base cost £125K, but more cost if anything requires it.
Ekk ! It's an expensive business!
The prop blades on the Merlin engined Spit are made of wood!
I always thought metal. Nowadays they are made in Germany (irony) and cost £22k per blade! I guess if you have a ground strike the wood prop would not transmit as much damage as a metal prop. A British company has just got CAA approval for its wood blades so hopefully most operators will fit these when next required.
Engine out overhaul every 500 hours, base cost £125K, but more cost if anything requires it.
Ekk ! It's an expensive business!
Very cool! I'm jealous - I missed out on a (free) Mustang ride some years back b/c I had to be back home early.
Some day...
Some day...
lazylobster
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Hayes do a Spitfire (an other war bird) owing/running/workshop manual.
One of the best reads I have and would recommend to anyone.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Supermarine-Spitfire-Restoring-Servicing-Legendary/dp/1844254623
the hobbler
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Many years ago when I was involved in the running of a M/Benz dealeship, one of my customers was Ray Hanna, the Spitfire pilot (and also the 1st leader of the Red Arrows). He was a real gent--if all my customers had been as pleasant as both he and Mrs Hanna were It would have been a lot easier job. Met Mark a couple of times before his untlmely death in Spain in a Merlin engined ME109E. Lots of stories from both Ray and Mrs Hanna as to why they were never able to get a Daimler-Benz V12 into the ME. On one of their visits, Mark had commented on the fact that if things went wrong, the ME would bite back hard---how right he was!
Ray was in the garage one day picking up their little M/Benz and mentioned that his Spitfire was stuck in Norway with a oil leak from the engine, which they were having to remove to send away to be repaired---it turned out in those days (and this was about 30 years ago) there were only 2 places allowed to (officially) work on the Merlin engines---1 place was in the Channel Isles and the other place was "The Confederate Air Force" in America, where lots of their aircraft used the Packhard version of the Merlin
Ray was in the garage one day picking up their little M/Benz and mentioned that his Spitfire was stuck in Norway with a oil leak from the engine, which they were having to remove to send away to be repaired---it turned out in those days (and this was about 30 years ago) there were only 2 places allowed to (officially) work on the Merlin engines---1 place was in the Channel Isles and the other place was "The Confederate Air Force" in America, where lots of their aircraft used the Packhard version of the Merlin
Amazing to think that these are worth millions today, years ago the RAF couldn't get rid of them but now they cannot be found. I'm not 100%sure but didn't a team go looking for one that crash landed in the Sahara Desert decades ago, they were taking it very seriously as there are so few left.
I often look at the failed retrieval of the B29 north of Thule Airbase on YouTube, such a shame. It was called Keebird
Haynes also do a manual for the 747 from what I've read!
I bet it was an awesome experience!
I often look at the failed retrieval of the B29 north of Thule Airbase on YouTube, such a shame. It was called Keebird
Haynes also do a manual for the 747 from what I've read!
I bet it was an awesome experience!
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the hobbler
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Many years ago there was a story going around that a number of Spitfires had been delivered to a RAF base in Burma, and then buried, still in the crates. Despite an extensive 'dig' nothing was found, and in fact the official paperwork subsequantly found, the ground conditions and the equipment available at the time of the supposed burial have shown that the 'burial' was a myth.
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There is a similar story that many parts from the Birmingham (Castle Bromwich) were just buried complete with their storage protection grease/stuff. The dump site has never been found. If there ever was one.
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Curious Droid just released a video about the Crecy, a 27 litre sleeve valve two-stroke, that was expected to double the power of the Merlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxK_zWgw6gY
It was killed by turbojets, but this is what Rolls Royce had in mind to use the engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxK_zWgw6gY
It was killed by turbojets, but this is what Rolls Royce had in mind to use the engine.
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Congrats on the spitfire flight, a very unique experience indeed, did the pilot throw you around a bit or was it a more sedate flight ?
There are still people who make new spitfires these days, (not the fully restored articles of the recent Tv show) they are in essence a kit plane that you can build yourself. Or follow the original patterns and rivet your own parts together.
Obviously the merlin v12 is very valuable these days but there are other aero engines you can use in them.
Doesn’t really matter how much power they have, they can’t go any faster with a propeller and by that time they where chasing super sonic flight, not achievable with a piston engine (unless you point it at the ground) also I understand it was a pretty unreliable project with a lot of failures and break downs.
There are still people who make new spitfires these days, (not the fully restored articles of the recent Tv show) they are in essence a kit plane that you can build yourself. Or follow the original patterns and rivet your own parts together.
Obviously the merlin v12 is very valuable these days but there are other aero engines you can use in them.
Curious Droid just released a video about the Crecy, a 27 litre sleeve valve two-stroke, that was expected to double the power of the Merlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxK_zWgw6gY
It was killed by turbojets, but this is what Rolls Royce had in mind to use the engine.
Doesn’t really matter how much power they have, they can’t go any faster with a propeller and by that time they where chasing super sonic flight, not achievable with a piston engine (unless you point it at the ground) also I understand it was a pretty unreliable project with a lot of failures and break downs.
Funnily enough there was a similar story about a Fiat plant off the Kylemore Road in Dublin, when they were closing up the factory a lot of inventory was dumped in a hole out the back and filled in, I've heard that from several sources including one chap who was an apprentice serving his time when it closed.
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And people think 'landfill' is a modern phenomena ...
It happened all over.. a place near us used to have a 'pensioner day' where they would pick the 'old boys' brains about where NOT to dig footings for new development..
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They were looking at the same power as two Merlins from just one engine. I'm not so sure that was a great idea. How many Mosquitoes got home with one engine that would have been lost if they'd been in a plane with one Crecy. Begs the question as to why they bothered at all. The work done pre war by Stuart Tresilian showed that high revving engines could be just as reliable but considerably smaller. A 14 litre V12 running the same blower as a Merlin could make the same power if it turned at 6000rpm vs 3000. He was ignored.
The Crecy development was done at RR Derby, but the project was largely ignored by senior management because all efforts are going into the Merlin. The project was flawed in many ways. Fuel was directly injected using diesel injection pumps - not good with petrol as there's no lubrication with predictable results from an HP leak. The sleeve valve drives were less complicated than some other designs but still far more hassle than poppet valves. The big killer was big ends failing. They thought oil centrifuging away but the test bed V twins were fine. The real reason was the oil pump being too small for the full size Crecy. They never did get it sorted out.
It's since been proved that two-strokes dont need positive acting valve gear**. Piston ports do the job just fine. Reed valves can be added and just 10 years later Walter Kaaden invented the exhaust expansion chamber. He was of course making racing motorbikes, not huge aero engines, but the principles will be much he same if not the rev limits.
** I wonder why RR did not try the opposed piston ideas used in Jumo and later Deltic engines. They are diesels but petrol versions would be interesting.
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The reason for putting two engines on a plane is for redundancy not power
Twin engine planes still have plenty of power even with just one engine, the only reason for 1500hp in a spitfire is because it was an arms race more power meant better performance in a dog fight, not so relevant once the war is over, also not so relevant if there is little flight performance increase compared to 1500hp,the limiting factor is still the propeller. Also no point in a 6000rpm engine if you then have to gear the output of the engine down, you might gain some torque which is not that valuable in a plane but you will lose power at the propeller.
The merlin could sustain massive damage and still work on what was left of the remaining cylinders
As discussed in other areas of the forum you don’t need that much power in a small plane, most have less than 200hp, but low compression and low revving = massive reliability.
The blower on the spitfire and turbos found on other ww2 aircraft was more for high altitude than it was speed.
planes like the DC-3 had much less power and an even bigger displacement the spitfire was in aviation terms already highly strung, so making something that revs higher and produces the same power would increase breakdowns
