2017 Tipo Estate 1.3D
Reading various posts I realise that I have not attended to reset of service light (or the possible oil degradation light peril) as a DIY servicer.
I am confused which Multiecuscanner version I need and which lead set. Or indeed if I need to buy anything else?Or maybe I can rent such kit?I am located in rural mid Wales so nothing is easy to locate locally. Can anybody advise me what they would buy? For example is version 4.6r1 which is cheap on AliBaba suitable. Sorry to be asking such basic questions

penllyndyfi said:

2017 Tipo Estate 1.3D
Reading various posts I realise that I have not attended to reset of service light (or the possible oil degradation light peril) as a DIY servicer.
I am confused which Multiecuscanner version I need and which lead set. Or indeed if I need to buy anything else?Or maybe I can rent such kit?I am located in rural mid Wales so nothing is easy to locate locally. Can anybody advise me what they would buy? For example is version 4.6r1 which is cheap on AliBaba suitable. Sorry to be asking such basic questions

Click to expand...

Hello again.

Ok.. 1st word of caution

They phased out DIY readiness.. in favour of a 'Security Gateway'

IF your 2017 falls the wrong side of the Cut.off.. it is currently tricky to get the correct kit at DIY prices
s130
Has posted informative stuff regarding the changes

Charlie

penllyndyfi said:

2017 Tipo Estate 1.3D
Reading various posts I realise that I have not attended to reset of service light (or the possible oil degradation light peril) as a DIY servicer.
I am confused which Multiecuscanner version I need and which lead set. Or indeed if I need to buy anything else?Or maybe I can rent such kit?I am located in rural mid Wales so nothing is easy to locate locally. Can anybody advise me what they would buy? For example is version 4.6r1 which is cheap on AliBaba suitable. Sorry to be asking such basic questions

Click to expand...

Hi,
Don't buy the software on Alibaba or free downloads. Get the "free" version from the source:
http://www.multiecuscan.net/
And a ELM 327 interface "modified for Multiecuscan" on ebay e.g.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301626849586?
(I've bought from this seller) for £17.
This will let you try out and find out if you have the security gate way (SGW) module for £17.
If you don't have the SGW then pay the €50 licence fee and you have all you need.

HTH,
Robert G8RPI.

I'll chip in here for added information purposes only.

As Robert and others have pointed out there are ELM327 interfaces from suppliers that work with MES. There are however MANY MANY ELM327 interfaces that don't work on Fiat/Alfa/Lancia/ vehicles bought by people looking for the cheap option.

PLEASE - Before buying any interface from a NON approved source not recommended by MES then please accept that you may have issues to resolve and not blame/finger MES.

:yeahthat:
If it is under £10 it probaly won't work out of the box. They can be fixed but it involves locating and removing an SMD resistor, not worth the bother.
The one I linked to is known to be OK.
Wired (USB) interfaces are preferable to wireless (wi-fi /Bluetooth) for anything more than just reading fault codes. With some of the advanced functions that write data to the modules in car if the wireless link is interrupted there is a small chance the module could fail.

penllyndyfi
For the Tipo you might need one adaptor lead, A5 "BLUE" but this is only needed for the U-connect radio, Climate control and Parking assist. You might not even have these modules fitted.

Robert G8RPI.

At the risk of becoming a bore can I just say I'd give Grant at Gendan a ring even if you are not intending to buy from him. He really is just so helpful and I'd be surprised if he doesn't have chapter and verse on this. I often exchange emails with him and was mentioning a wee while ago that we were thinking of a Tipo estate for my boy and I'm pretty sure he mentioned that there's a way round this gateway problem which I was intending to pursue further. But then the boy's Astra passed it's MOT again so that's on the back burner a bit now.

I got mine from Gendan. Works a treat. I’m curious how Fiat are getting round the regulations with the “security gateway” malarkey on late 17 onwards models. My understanding is manufacturers cannot force vehicle owners into servicing at the dealer network (so warranty should be valid if OE parts are used at a VAT registered business) so how can making it virtually impossible for independent garages (or indeed home users) to reset the service timers fit in with those regulations? If the oil interval timer isn’t reset it could have potentially serious consequences and making it not readily accessible via normal diagnostic means to none dealer garages seems to fly in the face of that somewhat. Be interesting to see the manufacturer justification on this, particularly as many others don’t....

Batius finkius said:

I got mine from Gendan. Works a treat. I’m curious how Fiat are getting round the regulations with the “security gateway” malarkey on late 17 onwards models. My understanding is manufacturers cannot force vehicle owners into servicing at the dealer network (so warranty should be valid if OE parts are used at a VAT registered business) so how can making it virtually impossible for independent garages (or indeed home users) to reset the service timers fit in with those regulations? If the oil interval timer isn’t reset it could have potentially serious consequences and making it not readily accessible via normal diagnostic means to none dealer garages seems to fly in the face of that somewhat. Be interesting to see the manufacturer justification on this, particularly as many others don’t....

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Other are going down this was not just fiat

And they probably get away with it as garages can purchase the online key/access through the sgw from fiat by the day hour year ect
Vag system they are stating to install is SFD I believe

When I was having my email conversation with Grant at Gendan, actually mainly about electric vehicles, That was in mid March, the subject of us perhaps buying a Tipo and the SGW (Security Gateway) came up. His advice was to see if I could plug my MES in before purchase where it would be immediately apparent whether it was communicating or not. However, as it's quite unlikely a vendor would allow this, He went on to say he's not found a 2018 yet that had it (SGW) but that If we did buy one and found it had the SWG, I quote, "It's not a massive problem. You can buy SGW bypass leads which allow you to perform full diagnostics on these cars". So anyone wondering about this I'd give Grant a ring as he seems to be on top of this already?

IMHO Fiat have got this totally wrong from the customer perspective. I'm really surprised that in the US they have not be taken to court as the US has very strong laws regarding "right to repair" / ownership etc.

What Fiat should have done, (bearing in mind that the reason this all came about is because of vehicle thefts where diagnostic port hacking hacking was/is used to bypass the vehicle security/immobiliser) was to ring fence the security parts of the ECU/Key Unit etc. Instead they chose the cheap and simple solutions of inserting a gateway that blocks write modifying commands.

I've had a run in with FIAT UK a few years ago on the old PIN/Key Card. The vehicles shipped from Italy with the key card/PIN to Bristol docks. At the docks the key card/PIN were removed, registered with NVSR (National Vehicle Security Register) and then I assume destroyed.

Only a Fiat dealer (AA / RAC) could get the PIN code. The NVSR would not release to the vehicle owner despite it being YOUR CAR! On older Fiats what is so important about the PIN code is that if your key chip or key control module failed you could start the car by using the throttle pedal to key in the PIN code. In our case my wife was having to park in a dark and dingy multi-story car park an having to return to the vehicle in the dark. Not being able to start the care and safely drive away was a personal safety issue. Call the AA/RAC, wait for assistance etc. They would get the PIN code, start the car and leave you to accidentally stall and start all over again.

Fiat and NVSR would not budge. So I asked my friendly Fiat dealer to get the code. The NVSR then faxed the request form with all my vehicle make, model, registration, personal details, bank account info, address, etc. back to the WRONG dealer with the PIN, key and radio codes written on the form.

I was furious. So much for security let alone privacy. The fax could have got to any fax machine in the UK.

To be fair the PIN card NVSR was down to the UK insurance industry, not Fiat.

g8rpi said:

To be fair the PIN card NVSR was down to the UK insurance industry, not Fiat.

Click to expand...

I agree to a point BUT the legal owner of the vehicle should never have been excluded from getting access to THEIR vehicles bank account!

And then to introduce a botched, not independently vetted system and business relationship with NVSR ... IS FIAT'S CUSTOMER FAILING and all other manufacturers who just passed the problem/solution on the best bidder.

I have no problems with security, privacy etc. and have been involved in this before I retired.

Now today I don't think matters are any better. In fact they are worse in that on later vehicles the PIN to access via the SGW can only be obtained by a "pass through" connection to Fiat's servers. This requires dealership/equivalent kit and an expensive subscription to Fiat servers/services. For vehicles security control/etc. than I can just about support this strategy. However but for all other normal OBDII / Diagnostics / Fault Clearing and device actuations then these should and must be openly available for private individuals, independent garages etc.

If you twisted my arm then I might say that a two security code system would possible be acceptable. Code.I given to vehicle owner for all non security related dignostics etc. and Code.II for vehicle security functions.

This is now pretty much water under the bridge as the industry is working it's way to a fully encrypted CAN-BUS system as opposed to a Fiat gateway bodge.

How this will work/pan out I have no idea but I'm fairly certain private owned vehicle self maintenance etc. will become a thing of the past

Two solutions.

1) Get/keep an old vehicle pre 2015
2) Build your own or kit car or mongrel vehicle

There is another aspect to all of this that people / Fiat / .... have not considered.

This is the vehicle heritage and classic community. Getting parts from Fiat for pre or post 80s cars is a dead end. Likewise the current 2015+ technical manuals etc. are now not available except in digital form at exorbitant costs.

My 2015 500X has a security code only available from Fiat servers (at cost AND being an authorised dealer etc.) My Strada Abarth is now 33 years old.

Can I honestly expect Fiat to be able to supply security information in 2048 when they could not supply critical Strada Abarth parts less than a year after they sold the last models in the UK DEPSITE the so called 10 year EU requirement.

In the years to come it will be interesting to see how this all pans out. I'm guessing the classic car ownership will end with pre 2015 models. Not only because the information etc. for enthusiasts to keep their vehicles on the road will not really be available (for them and it is THEM who drive the classic industry and not Fiat or other mfg.) but that the current society of vehicle drivers are just not interested or prohibited. Vehicles will just be a means to get from A to B. Ad on top of that that a Fiat was a Fiat, but then became a Fiat/GM hybrid, and then an FCA and now a FCA/Fiat/Peugeot/Citreon chameleon bag of bits concocted to increase market share and shareholder value in the short term.

Personally I see brand loyalty and respect being completely discarded and it will be a price vs warranty vs residual value vs customer service battle and the likes of Amazon might just win!

What a horribly bleak out look S130. From a personal perspective I've been thinking just of late, that I may have to shift my interest away from cars because this old body of mine is just not able to "take the punishment" any more. Already I'm starting to hand off heavy tasks, like gearbox removal/clutches etc as I just can't comfortably handle it. Even simpler stuff, like sorting out a binding front brake on my daughter in law's Jazz, a month or so ago, I was talked out of by Mrs J because of the bitterly cold day it was.

So I think I'll probably start to concentrate more on my old horticultural machines and motor cycles (although I'm forbidden to ride the bikes) as I can do them inside the garage with a heater beside me in the winter. I've got a 1940's 2 stroke lawnmower sitting in the shed right now awaiting my attentions.

Pugglt Auld Jock said:

What a horribly bleak out look S130. From a personal perspective I've been thinking just of late, that I may have to shift my interest away from cars because this old body of mine is just not able to "take the punishment" any more.

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Don't mean to shed the doom and gloom of a "horribly bleak outlook" but I'm seeing from a personal perspective that it is looking bleak when everything is taken into account.

Like you I'm beginning to pass off stuff to my independent Fiat specialist (Dean of Small Car Services). He got my 500X 5 year service last year because my body was knackered from doing a 50K service and rear suspension work on my wife's Barchetta. I was planning to do the 500X myself and had all the parts (cam belt, water pump etc.) and fluids etc. Cam belt, pump, plugs, filters, fluids etc. all easy but I baulked at the brake fluid change because I was not physically up to removing 4 blinking great heavy wheels at ground level.

My biggest downfall is pride in my work, quality and attention to detail. I care about my Fiats and over the years at various dealers had really shoddy work done. e.g. stuff not done which should have been, wrong oil, stripped threads and even bent sills on the "B" and even a technician stealing my supplied expensive oil and replacing it with the garages stock oil. I do make mistakes, we all do, and sometimes cut some corners but when I'm paying for a dealer to work on my pride and joy I have high standards and expectations.

So possibly in the future I'll just lease a car and not worry about it after all it is only just a bit of tin on wheels

s130 said:

Don't mean to shed the doom and gloom of a "horribly bleak outlook" but I'm seeing from a personal perspective that it is looking bleak when everything is taken into account.

My biggest downfall is pride in my work, quality and attention to detail. I care about my Fiats and over the years at various dealers had really shoddy work done. e.g. stuff not done which should have been, wrong oil, stripped threads and even bent sills on the "B" and even a technician stealing my supplied expensive oil and replacing it with the garages stock oil. I do make mistakes, we all do, and sometimes cut some corners but when I'm paying for a dealer to work on my pride and joy I have high standards and expectations.

So possibly in the future I'll just lease a car and not worry about it after all it is only just a bit of tin on wheels

Click to expand...

Not "doom and gloom", just reality I fear?

Your approach and attitude to your vehicles seems very much like mine. I like things to be "just right". When I bought the Ibiza I decided to let the dealer look after it during it's warranty period for compliance reasons - and a good job I did as she had to have the turbo replaced! - but it was disappointing to see how little was done for the money it cost me. Not even a dab of grease on the wheel hubs to stop the alloys corroding in place, as I later discovered! Doubt if the wheels were even removed during the three years I took her to them as the rears in particular took a lot of shifting to get them off when I did her 4th service last year. After having the clutch replaced on our Panda last year, which seems to have been done well by a small garage I trust, I found, the next time I was working on her, that one of the gearbox mounting bolts had gone "AWOL" Ok, I'm sure she could manage fine without it, especially as she does low miles and is driven gently by us, but it annoyed me quite a lot!

I think there's a lot of life in the Ibiza yet so, If they haven't taken my licence away by then, I imagine my next car may be an electric. However this morning my dear other half was watching a "rip off" TV program, the one with the 3 elderly ladies and I suddenly realized they were featuring electric cars and the, to me, extraordinary repair costs some people were being faced with - thousands of pounds - Hopefully that'll come down once electric cars are "mainstream"?