Why so much ford hate?
- Thread starter fenton_jd
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Why so much ford hate?
Looks like its being placed in a crusher
look at the exaust its all wrong
look at the exaust its all wrong
End of the day you choose the car you want not what people tell you too. Ford sell bucket loads as they have dealers every 500 yards & people are lazy and unwilling to try/be different....same can be said for vauxhall as both rely on reputation and to a degree this is fair comment.
However as someone that had to deal daily with escort airbag connectors (yes the official fix was a cable-tie) mondeo clutches, transits blowing up etc I see Fiat as no better or worse....you pays your money so you takes your choice
However as someone that had to deal daily with escort airbag connectors (yes the official fix was a cable-tie) mondeo clutches, transits blowing up etc I see Fiat as no better or worse....you pays your money so you takes your choice
symonh2000
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I quite like Fords.
Ok most FWD Escorts were crap, but the Puma, Focus and even the latest modeos are great cars.
Its Vauxhall cars that are my hate. Vectra's, Cavaliers, Corsa's, Nova's, Astra's.. They are desperately dull to look at and to drive.
Even the sporty vauxhalls seem to be boring, my dad had a VX220 2.2 for a while and although it handled very well the engine was average at best. it sounded very ordinary and wasn't very powerful for its size.
The only Vauxhalls I have liked are the Carlton GSi3000 24v, and the Calibra for its looks if not the driving experience.
(Sorry Jug)
Ok most FWD Escorts were crap, but the Puma, Focus and even the latest modeos are great cars.
Its Vauxhall cars that are my hate. Vectra's, Cavaliers, Corsa's, Nova's, Astra's.. They are desperately dull to look at and to drive.
Even the sporty vauxhalls seem to be boring, my dad had a VX220 2.2 for a while and although it handled very well the engine was average at best. it sounded very ordinary and wasn't very powerful for its size.
The only Vauxhalls I have liked are the Carlton GSi3000 24v, and the Calibra for its looks if not the driving experience.
(Sorry Jug)
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i didnt say it was a great publication but its saying the same things as the other more repuatbale 'car review magazines'
my mums always wanted a calibra.... and you can pick up one for peanuts once.... back in the day when we were poorer we used to own quite a few nippy vauxhalls
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Ford will no doubt sell more KA's, the old KA had the highest level of customer loyalty within the Ford range as many owners either bought a new KA or upgraded to bigger Fiesta or Focus', you can't get naything bette rthan returning customers.
I see no reason why some smart 500 specialists will not offer Ford parts as opposed to just aftermarket parts which can only ever dream of having the same level of research and development. A 500 on Ford dampers/springs and anti roll bars I would say will be cheaper than just about any half decent aftermarket suspension. Maybe even Ford dampers on lowered aftermarket springs and the Ford anti-roll bars would offer a sporty stance better ride comfort and increased road holding all in one.
And as for re-mapping the steering, any electric steering which has more than one map, i.e a city map, or a sporty map means that it can be mapped as it already runs more than one, I know that there are tuners already doing this to BMW's with electric steering, as of course proper M BMW's use hydrolich as the M division say electric is not as good for feel or feedback, but its getting better.
So plenty people get cars re-mapped when chasing more power (hard thing to do to get any really useful gains on a N/A but hey they all fall for it), so why not do it to get some actual gains in driver enjoyment and where you can actually "feel" the differance.
The other area that gets mapped on BMW's and VXR's is the throttle map on the fly-by-wire, again fully remappable and something that could be sharpened up on some Fiats as ones I've driven seem a little delayed in there action.
even electric steering with only 1 mode can have the assistance changed. the motor's torque is constantly variable so in theory you could even have a dial to allow the driver to select exactly the amount of assistance they want.
traditional pump systems need bleed valves to achieve this constant adjustment, but you can still do it.
True, though the newer ones with more than one map I believe are all controlled by one unit, the Bosche management system which also controls engine maps and fly-by-wire throttle maps and even the headlamps everything goes through the new ECU's, whereas some/most of the older systems have stand alone ECU for the steering and as such its pretty much a locked unit as I don't think they have diagnostic ports, it's more a case of it works or it doesn't so replaceable unit. I know the Seicento has has such a set up and it has older Bosch management. I think as the technology becomes better understood more and more tuners will be looking to improve the car towards an individuals requirements in not only engine but steering and throttle.
Though as said, traditional hydraulic (spell it right this time) offer much better feel and feedback hence why all "M" cars use it, and I know when I get into a car with electric it doesn't feel anywhere near as good as the hydraulic that is fitted to both my integrale and GT4.
Totally disagree about all this handling and steering stuff, at the end of the day both the 500 and Ka are just tiny city cars. Neither is an all out drivers car and neither needs to be. If Ford have got rid of the bounciness of the 500 and made it roll less, then IMO they have sterilised the chasis and turned it into an ordinary car. Most peole buy Fiats because they are different, because they are passionate about the design etc.
As for the steering, Ive always found these electric setups to be fine, on the 1.4 500 with sport setting on its just perfect, and its far more direct than the appaling hydraulic set up on my wifes Golf mkIII and my old Passat B4.
The debate re Ka and 500 will go on forever, the two cars are not better or worse than each other, they are just different and will appeal to different people. I can drive my 500 at insane speeds round bends and roundabouts and feel totally happy with it, I shant be spending £s on bolting on different Ford/Fiat suspension. As Ive said, the Ka basically has the Abarth set up anyway.
One thing, the Ka will start at £7995 and the 500 is £8100... but the 500 has 5 airbags accross the range as standard, the KA has 2... just 2, so Ford are till up to their old penny pinching.
As for the steering, Ive always found these electric setups to be fine, on the 1.4 500 with sport setting on its just perfect, and its far more direct than the appaling hydraulic set up on my wifes Golf mkIII and my old Passat B4.
The debate re Ka and 500 will go on forever, the two cars are not better or worse than each other, they are just different and will appeal to different people. I can drive my 500 at insane speeds round bends and roundabouts and feel totally happy with it, I shant be spending £s on bolting on different Ford/Fiat suspension. As Ive said, the Ka basically has the Abarth set up anyway.
One thing, the Ka will start at £7995 and the 500 is £8100... but the 500 has 5 airbags accross the range as standard, the KA has 2... just 2, so Ford are till up to their old penny pinching.
true; the average 500/ka owner never drives their car hard so it doesn't need to have amazing handling, however better handling leads to more favorable reviews, and in this sector that directly translates to increased sales. many 500/ka owners will be young first time buyers, those type of people are sensitive to reviews (rather than the brand bias people often get by their 4th/5th car when they buy the brand they like regardless of reviews).
that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is still nonsense.
Yeah right, like a Fiat hating Vauxhall owning bloke is right
Everyone who owns a car will be passionate about it and defend it, especially when a car built on same production line comes out and all the motoring press rave about how much better it is to drive over the other car. When you think of it without emotion the fact that Ford's are being built on a Fiat factory and therefore Fiat will be getting money from this and in so doing preserving there profit margins when not long ago they were near bust is to be applauded, if the KA was said to be rubbish this in fact would have a knock on effect to Fiats profits and therefore future development of models and there long term prosperity. So distance yourself and look at broader picture, the KA being good is a good thing for Fiat.
The 500/KA is far from tiny, sit it next to say a early Clio or 106 and its truly huge, its not far off the size of a Seat Ibiza, MK2 Golf which were designed and marketed as anything but tiny city run-abouts, and it weighs nearly a ton far from light as well.
I found the electric steering in the 500 to be OK, numb on the dead ahead, and delay when turning in the first fee mm's, not sharing the total direct connection with the hydraulic systems fitted to my cars. It's a 1.4 16V I have driven. The bounciness is something I would ant to get rid of, how anyone can think that makes the car is beyond me. To me it feels like its over sprung on mismatched dampers, something Fiats seem to do often.
And as for air-bags, do people actually ever buy cars based on that, I wouldn't. I think cars are far too safe and people drive about cocooned to the outside world and drive without due care and attention as they subconsciously believe they are safe and feck all those around them.
I guarantee if all airbags were removed and a large razor sharp spike was placed instead on the steering wheel meaning instance death on crashing, driving standards would improve ten fold. :devil:
The 500/KA is far from tiny, sit it next to say a early Clio or 106 and its truly huge, its not far off the size of a Seat Ibiza, MK2 Golf which were designed and marketed as anything but tiny city run-abouts, and it weighs nearly a ton far from light as well.
I found the electric steering in the 500 to be OK, numb on the dead ahead, and delay when turning in the first fee mm's, not sharing the total direct connection with the hydraulic systems fitted to my cars. It's a 1.4 16V I have driven. The bounciness is something I would ant to get rid of, how anyone can think that makes the car is beyond me. To me it feels like its over sprung on mismatched dampers, something Fiats seem to do often.
And as for air-bags, do people actually ever buy cars based on that, I wouldn't. I think cars are far too safe and people drive about cocooned to the outside world and drive without due care and attention as they subconsciously believe they are safe and feck all those around them.
I guarantee if all airbags were removed and a large razor sharp spike was placed instead on the steering wheel meaning instance death on crashing, driving standards would improve ten fold. :devil:
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Yeah right, like a Fiat hating Vauxhall owning bloke is right
i dont hate fiat, and the car i currently own has nothing at all to do with my competence. my post has no brand bias.
I dont buy cars on safety at all either, couldnt care less if it would fold up like papier mache! But, loads of people do and the fact Fiat are giving 5 airbags as opposed to 2 is pretty poor on Fords behalf. As Ive said, I like the new KA.. Id even consider buying one if it werent for the fact I love most Fiats.
Agree the 500s suspension is mis/matched and many Fiats are that way, but I buy a car and live with how it behaves, Im not interested at all in changing them, just take them for what they are. Id say the 500 handles brilliantly, its just bouncy and skittish at times but I find that fun, for me a flat conering car that sticks like glue to the road is not fun at all.
As for the reviews, the 500 got great ones when it came out too... but read What Cars verdict and they arent so complimentarty about the KA, Im looking forward to driving one.
Agree the 500s suspension is mis/matched and many Fiats are that way, but I buy a car and live with how it behaves, Im not interested at all in changing them, just take them for what they are. Id say the 500 handles brilliantly, its just bouncy and skittish at times but I find that fun, for me a flat conering car that sticks like glue to the road is not fun at all.
As for the reviews, the 500 got great ones when it came out too... but read What Cars verdict and they arent so complimentarty about the KA, Im looking forward to driving one.
Thats incorrect. The majority of people buying 500s are infact a little older. Check the 500 section very few children in there. People who are getting rid of C-Maxs, 07 Civics, and Ford Mavericks and such.
Theres a pic from the the Perth meet. Where my Marea is sitting next to a 500. The 500 is taller and wider.
People who buy second hand cars and people who buy brand new cars have very different mindsets. Obviously someone who can only afford a MK2 Punto is going to be more concerned on finding a car that has working electric windows and has a body that isn't in too bad a condition, as low a mileage as possible.
People buying new don't even need to consider that. They can pick any colour available. It will be brand new so mechanical condition is irrelevant. So Ncap ratings and such do then come into play.
drove a few escorts, nothing to write home about, although one did have 360k on the clock and was still going
I have also blown a turbo in an RS turbo
i think it was said earlier., ford make decent special cars that get remembered, but the everyday stuff is.... well....easy to forget.
Focus was ok, i just didnt like the dash. The old N plate mondeo was alright, just bland.
I have also blown a turbo in an RS turbo
i think it was said earlier., ford make decent special cars that get remembered, but the everyday stuff is.... well....easy to forget.
Focus was ok, i just didnt like the dash. The old N plate mondeo was alright, just bland.
I have had a few fords in my time and I must admit I enjoyed them very much, especially my Mk3 Escort RS Turbo Custom pack. I would love to own one again, but only if I had very deep pockets to fix the god dam thing on a daily basis!
i love fords, but not as much as fiat, ive had all the cortinas and granadas, and they have been brilliant, had a couple of sierra cosworths, and they are just awsome.
