What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

[StevenRB45]

Regarding those indicators, do you mean "sequential"? Luckily, being just mid range spec, mine are just the old single bulb type. Rear clusters are all bulb type but I think the high level brake light is led? I'm hoping the lads at AVW will do me a good price if any coding in is ever needed.

I felt like I followed one and it had sequential rears but they might have been an option.

From the sounds of it you've probably got fewer LED units than are on the Toyota, my headlamps are Halogen but the running lights are not, then you get to the rear where the 3rd brake light and the tail lights are LED, as is the foglamp..but not the reversing light.

I can't imagine the third brake light needing any coding it's on or off although you'd probably need to buy a full unit..it's only when you get to multifunctional things eg. a running light that goes orange and flashes as an indicator or dims I'd imagine coding comes in. Although nothing stopping them requiring coding for reasons of "anti-theft".

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I felt like I followed one and it had sequential rears but they might have been an option.

From the sounds of it you've probably got fewer LED units than are on the Toyota, my headlamps are Halogen but the running lights are not, then you get to the rear where the 3rd brake light and the tail lights are LED, as is the foglamp..but not the reversing light.

I can't imagine the third brake light needing any coding it's on or off although you'd probably need to buy a full unit..it's only when you get to multifunctional things eg. a running light that goes orange and flashes as an indicator or dims I'd imagine coding comes in. Although nothing stopping them requiring coding for reasons of "anti-theft".

Ah! running lights are LED on the scala. and quite big. Front of the car is very bright.

 

[StevenRB45]

Ah! running lights are LED on the scala. and quite big. Front of the car is very bright.

Do they change to the indicator when you activate?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Do they change to the indicator when you activate?

Well, I didn't know the answer to this so just went out and tried them. Mine is the pre-facelift SE Technology so definitely has single bulb rear flashers - not sequential as the top of the range and newer ones do, you can clearly see them through the lenses. Fronts look a bit more complicated. The running lights are a wide row of LEDs with the indicators just below them but all built into the same main light unit. When you activate the indicator the running light LEDs reduce to about half intensity and the flasher flashes illuminating the whole width of the lens so it looks much wider than just the single bulb would lead you to believe. As soon as you cancel the indicator the LEDs immediately ramp up to full brilliance. The LED running lights never go out completely though. The facelifted version and, maybe the older top of range versions? have sequential rear flashers and fronts which utilize the running lights which change to orange when flashing - completely different to mine. In fact the front light clusters and wing aperture is completely different in the facelifted car, I don't think they would be interchangeable. In fact there are quite a number of detail differences between my version and the later version. Mine's a late 23 (73 plate)
Edit. The top of range of my model and all newer ones, have full LED headlights too - mine only has LED dip beams.

 

[StevenRB45]

I suspect some "processing" is done at the unit itself.

I.e. up to the connector it's likely the same loom and BCM then the light interprets the signals dependent on which one it is. The car says "put an indicator on" the light itself has a controller that determines what that means to it.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I suspect some "processing" is done at the unit itself.

I.e. up to the connector it's likely the same loom and BCM then the light interprets the signals dependent on which one it is. The car says "put an indicator on" the light itself has a controller that determines what that means to it.

I think you're probably right. I think the running light which changes to yellow when flashing comes as part of the overall package which includes the full LED headlight package. Wouldn't be surprised to find the whole thing comes as a unit?

 

[StevenRB45]

Very probably.

I know on the Fords where the DRL dims...there's an issue where the light stays dimmed permanently one day for indeterminate reasons.

Only fix is to replace the headlamp if it was done by the car itself you'd need a BCM.

To be fair pick any car from the last 20 years and you'd probably be surprised how complicated it is.

Toyota for example..has no DRLs until you release the handbrake...but then the stay on until the next time it's switched off. So they aren't on a simple interrupt if the hand brake is on.

Also despite you hearing clicking relays...for both wipers and lights...the lights are of course wired into a camera and a laser range finder for the automatic high beam. The amusement with this is that you can still hear that triggering the normal relay...so it's clearly patched into an older electrical system.

Joys of a car that is a heavy facelift of a car that was a heavy facelift of a car that was a heavy facelift of a car from 2003...

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Very probably.

I know on the Fords where the DRL dims...there's an issue where the light stays dimmed permanently one day for indeterminate reasons.

Only fix is to replace the headlamp if it was done by the car itself you'd need a BCM.

To be fair pick any car from the last 20 years and you'd probably be surprised how complicated it is.

Toyota for example..has no DRLs until you release the handbrake...but then the stay on until the next time it's switched off. So they aren't on a simple interrupt if the hand brake is on.

Also despite you hearing clicking relays...for both wipers and lights...the lights are of course wired into a camera and a laser range finder for the automatic high beam. The amusement with this is that you can still hear that triggering the normal relay...so it's clearly patched into an older electrical system.

Joys of a car that is a heavy facelift of a car that was a heavy facelift of a car that was a heavy facelift of a car from 2003...

All this sort of "stuff" is why I'm reluctant to move on from Becky even if an axle costs me the best part of an arm and a leg!

 

[porta]

All this sort of "stuff" is why I'm reluctant to move on from Becky even if an axle costs me the best part of an arm and a leg!

Indeed, the simpler the better

 

[StevenRB45]

All this sort of "stuff" is why I'm reluctant to move on from Becky even if an axle costs me the best part of an arm and a leg!

The Japanese Stuff used to be electrically simpler, effectively they'd fake most of the convenience functions people use canbus for with "clockwork" as it were.

Stick a module in with a timer on it that did an approximation of what the canbus BCM would do but there would be no tweaking it etc. It was just a dumb box that did a thing, things like rear parking sensors would draw power from the reverse light, front ones were on a switch rather than wired in to the ECU...meaning they don't turn off automatically at speed (this is very annoying on my dad's Yaris..front parking sensors beeping when you pass parked cars if you forget but that's the factory solution).

As time has gone on that's less and less the case although the Auris is a year older than the C3 and about 10 years older electrically in most respects. If you switch the engine off wipers going...they stop mid screen!!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The Japanese Stuff used to be electrically simpler, effectively they'd fake most of the convenience functions people use canbus for with "clockwork" as it were.

Stick a module in with a timer on it that did an approximation of what the canbus BCM would do but there would be no tweaking it etc. It was just a dumb box that did a thing, things like rear parking sensors would draw power from the reverse light, front ones were on a switch rather than wired in to the ECU...meaning they don't turn off automatically at speed (this is very annoying on my dad's Yaris..front parking sensors beeping when you pass parked cars if you forget but that's the factory solution).

As time has gone on that's less and less the case although the Auris is a year older than the C3 and about 10 years older electrically in most respects. If you switch the engine off wipers going...they stop mid screen!!

That's my kind of car!

 

[The Panda Nut]

I think you're probably right. I think the running light which changes to yellow when flashing comes as part of the overall package which includes the full LED headlight package. Wouldn't be surprised to find the whole thing comes as a unit?

Probably a VERY VERY expensive unit too!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Talking about Seat , I had a client yesterday who turned up in a Seat something or other..... he had to put the key in the door to unlock

It must have been broken. Our Leon was a 2002 and was the base version 1.4S. Central locking standard. It did stop workig when the drivers door lock switches failed but was restored with a new lock.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Ah, that explains a lot. I think that's exactly what mine is doing. I don't trust it so find myself frequently checking the display on the light switch - probably easier just to used the light switch to manually select whether they are on or not?

I think the auto lights and wiper bits are probably trustworthy. Ive had many vehicles so equipped and the only time you need to watch out is fog in daylight and particularly snowy conditions when the lights may not activate automatically.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The Scala has those ultra bright LED headlights, but only on the dip beam, which I find strange. The main beams are halogen so look pretty pathetic compared to the dip beams. Just hope I never need to replace the dip beam units, goodness knows what that might cost. Rest of the bulbs seem to be capless conventional type, which is great as I've a load of those left over from the Jazz.

8 years into owning a Mini Countryman with LED headlights (high and low beam) and so far (tough wood) they all work exactly like they have done since new.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Andy did a few weeks a go you knacker a cluster and then replace with an identical it won't need coding.

Yes I stupidly put a hole in my tail lamp with a sign. The replacement (all LED lights) was found on Ebay for £35 and VW made it very easy to replace with access panels I could remove, the bolts easy to get to. The old one unplugged and the new one plugged in and worked perfectly. No coding needed, no errors or warnings on the dash. It just worked.

Shock horror for a VW I know. I would imagine a mid level Skoda would have a similar approach to the function of the electrical system. you definitely won't need to code an incandescent bulb.

With these LED tail light clusters on some cars like the Focus above. Technically speaking they should never need to be replaced so it should never be an issue that you need to replace anything. so "£500 for a bulb change" is a massive misrepresentation of the issue especially as he goes on to talk about the BCM and that failing. so.... £500 for a failed BCM, the bulb is actually fine.

Reminded me of why I stopped watching both Scottish Car Clan guy and Car Wizard. Both manage to make a 5 minute video last for far too long, causing the viewer to lose the will to live.
Scottish guy starts by holding up a headlamp bulb, mentions headlamp bulb, then the rest of the video is about a rear lamp. Spent 10 minutes waiting for him to get around to mentioning the problem with the headlamp bulb - red herring. Does he not know which end of the car the headlamps are at?

Yeah in this case about 12 minutes in before he actually started talking about the problem.

What annoys me about both videos above is that the BCM is not a new thing. They witter on about "modern cars" buy my 2004 Punto a now 21 year old car, had a BCM which could fail and take lights out with it.

going back further the likes of the Mk3 Ford Granada Ghia in the 80s and the slightly more modern Mondeos and other top end fords and vauxhalls 30 and even 40 years ago, had a version of a body control module, which was basically a bulb failure module to tell you when you had a bulb out. that could also fail and then kill other systems.

Hell ask anyone who knows about the Fiat Tipo with a digital dash or worse still ask anyone who owned one what that was like.

 

[StevenRB45]

Shock horror for a VW I know. I would imagine a mid level Skoda would have a similar approach to the function of the electrical system. you definitely won't need to code an incandescent bulb.

You underestimate the capacity for VW to "improve" things in a 20 year period.

The Golf 6 was largely a Facelift of Mk5 with some of the more expensive to make things removed. Yours I seem to recall is a facelift of that facelift with a new engine and tech lift inside but largely similar story to the Toyota where despite having a new engine, interior and face the bones were designed in the early to mid 2000s.

The Scala is MQB AO...so has software and hardware from the people that brought you the i.d. range, the Golf mk8 none illuminating strokable heater and adaptive cruise that will randomly set your speed goal to 100mph. So I guess what I'm saying is assuming common sense will have been applied is a big assumption.

Otherwise car clan guy is usually good source of second hand information delivered in an angry manner...and BCMs have been around for as long as canbus has been around. You only notice them when they break..

 

[PuntoHowTo]

You underestimate the capacity for VW to "improve" things in a 20 year period.

The Golf 6 was largely a Facelift of Mk5 with some of the more expensive to make things removed. Yours I seem to recall is a facelift of that facelift with a new engine and tech lift inside but largely similar story to the Toyota where despite having a new engine, interior and face the bones were designed in the early to mid 2000s.

Yes and no, the mk6 hatch maybe, the cabriolet didn’t launch until 2011 and while the “platform” is largely the same everything from the bottom of the windscreen back was re-engineered from new on the cabrio.. including a different windscreen even the wipers are different on the cab so there are a lot of differences.
It was also built in Osnabrück which is their go to factory for special/low production number cars so even the assembly line is different.

That being said a lot of things in the world of VW are rarely re-invented, more that they evolve over time. They engineer a window switch and that will get used in every car, for 20 years with some minor cosmetic changes over time.

The climate control again gets used in ever VAG car with cosmetic changes for decades that does tend to mean that things like switches buttons etc , the bits you touch and interact with, don’t really break…

Unless they reinvent it all for an electric car and the software engineers screw everything up.

While jocks Scala is a much newer car you probably wouldn’t need to scratch the surface too hard to find the buttons switched knobs pipes hinges levers and so on, all share the same DNA as those found in my golf or older. You have to remember with vag things filter down so what was new on an Audi or Bentley 10 years ago will work its way down to a skoda fabia at some point.

Cosmetically it’s a very different car, it shares a lot in common with the mk7 golf, but the mk7 golf shares a huge amount in common with the mk6

Not being the top end all singing all dancing model, jock probably avoiding a lot of the much newer stuff with dodgy software

 

[StevenRB45]

Yes and no, the mk6 hatch maybe, the cabriolet didn’t launch until 2011 and while the “platform” is largely the same everything from the bottom of the windscreen back was re-engineered from new on the cabrio.. including a different windscreen even the wipers are different on the cab so there are a lot of differences.
It was also built in Osnabrück which is their go to factory for special/low production number cars so even the assembly line is different.

Well the bits that were required to be changed would be..if they hadn't changed the windscreen glass it would leak somewhat given the roof is a different profile.

It's like me saying my car was a clean sheet in 2013...when a special factory in Derbyshire designed it from the ground up separate from home base in Japan!...erm they didn't though they did an estate conversion to an existing car. In terms of wiring what they'll have done is made the new bits that were needed re. The roof and extended or shortened what was there but didn't currently fit because anything else is setting fire to money for no reason.

When the 7 came out it was the First car on MQB designed to save money from PQ platform the mk6 was based on, but since then there's been the lower cost ( MQB Evo)versions that are under the new Golf 8 and the AO which was a cheaper lighter version for smaller cars.