What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

[AndyRKett]

i dont buy costa coffee, i have a flask, i dont do Instagram either but some weeks i do over 600 miles

Is 20 minutes v 10 minutes to fill a battery v filling a tank going to horribly change your life? Compared to say the fumes produced by petrol and Diesel engines and the lungs of your grandchildren ?

Also as a business owner you have the means to service and repair mobility scooters and I assume you deal with a lot of mobility scooter batteries, I have to assume you have somewhere you could charge your van/car between jobs. 600 miles a week could mean two or three charges at most of a ev with a 200-300 mile range

Where they are building these housing developments without parking they are making assumptions that the sort of people who want to live there won’t want cars. It’s idiotic short sightedness of local councils, however as time goes by the plan for new developments will change and people will charge their cars in 10 mins a couple of times a week at a local charger or when they do the shopping.

Mobility scooters use DC motors, lead acid batteries and do need maintenance and serving, something like a tesla uses AC induction motors without a commutator or brushes, they are the same sort of motors that run escalators continuously for years without needing to stop. Honestly electric car motors don’t need any maintenance

 

[portland_bill]

Hows this so, when all new builds, and conversions to domestic dwellings require off road parking for the occupants vehicle(s)

Having at last obtained planning permission for a plot in Bristol, it was imperative that parking was 'on-site'. Requirement was for two car spaces, for a 4-bedroom house. Not enough when the kids get old enough to drive.

A large estate is being built behind me. The plans show the usual areas of allocated parking, not necessarily next to the house. No provision on the plans, or mention in the planning conditions, about car charging facilities. If not planned, I can't see it being easy to put chargng points at each pair of spaces later.

A slightly older estate nearby is a real mess. Each house has usually one space. Some got a garage, standard size, so difficult for any recent car, and no other space. There are some 4-bed houses with just a garage, and no other parking. Some architect seems to think that people will put the car in and out fo the garage for every journey, no matter how small.
Reality is parking all over the place, difficult to get along the roads after 6pm, and some areas where the Fire Service cannot get their trucks. It has been reported that two major insurance companies will not cover this estate, as fire damage will be total. Can't see it being easy to provide charging points anywhere there.

 

[dave]

Is 20 minutes v 10 minutes to fill a battery v filling a tank going to horribly change your life? Compared to say the fumes produced by petrol and Diesel engines and the lungs of your grandchildren ?

Also as a business owner you have the means to service and repair mobility scooters and I assume you deal with a lot of mobility scooter batteries, I have to assume you have somewhere you could charge your van/car between jobs. 600 miles a week could mean two or three charges at most of a ev with a 200-300 mile range

Where they are building these housing developments without parking they are making assumptions that the sort of people who want to live there won’t want cars. It’s idiotic short sightedness of local councils, however as time goes by the plan for new developments will change and people will charge their cars in 10 mins a couple of times a week at a local charger or when they do the shopping.

Mobility scooters use DC motors, lead acid batteries and do need maintenance and serving, something like a tesla uses AC induction motors without a commutator or brushes, they are the same sort of motors that run escalators continuously for years without needing to stop. Honestly electric car motors don’t need any maintenance

I have an uncle who has a lift maintenance business he will tell you a different story about escalators motors reliability.

My unit electric is charged by the landloard, at a very high rate would not be ably to afford to charge a van there.

How are we going to separate the electric use for the van for out tax bill too?

I am not anti electric car but i think boris is in a dream world if he thinks its all going to happen like magic without him having to do anything except ban fossil fuel cars. its all going to go tits up like everything else he does.

 

[AndyRKett]

I have an uncle who has a lift maintenance business he will tell you a different story about escalators motors reliability.

My unit electric is charged by the landloard, at a very high rate would not be ably to afford to charge a van there.

I think I could sit and point out all the benefits of ev’s till I’m blue in the face and you’d still find one small thing or tiny detail which would completely rule them out for your purposes, seems very much like your mind has been made up which is quite sad. It really doesn’t make sense to run a business where you charge batteries and then claim you can’t afford to charge a battery on an ev as it would be too expensive, especially given the costs of fuel and the costs of road tax and savings you would make.


As stated an ac induction motor does not need servicing that was the original argument, and as for the comparison for an electric car to an escalator, the average car might do 10,000 miles a year/100,000 miles a decade, if you assume an average speed of 30mph over that 100k then something like a escalator will rack up the same sort of hours of continuous running in few months.

Ac induction motors can run for years and years with no maintence at all.

 

[portland_bill]

Where they are building these housing developments without parking they are making assumptions that the sort of people who want to live there won’t want cars. It’s idiotic short sightedness of local councils, however as time goes by the plan for new developments will change and people will charge their cars in 10 mins a couple of times a week at a local charger or when they do the shopping.

With the current pressure to build everywhere, we are creating more commuters. All the employment here in this small town is full. All new residents will be commuting to Oxford, Swindon, Didcot, etc. Minimum 12 miles, up to 25 miles. We're going to need a lot of chargers in workplace and shopping centre car parks for those unable to charge at home. Could make the weekly shopping trip a long one, queueing for their turn at a charger.

 

[dave]

I think I could sit and point out all the benefits of ev’s till I’m blue in the face and you’d still find one small thing or tiny detail which would completely rule them out for your purposes, seems very much like your mind has been made up which is quite sad. It really doesn’t make sense to run a business where you charge batteries and then claim you can’t afford to charge a battery on an ev as it would be too expensive, especially given the costs of fuel and the costs of road tax and savings you would make.


As stated an ac induction motor does not need servicing that was the original argument, and as for the comparison for an electric car to an escalator, the average car might do 10,000 miles a year/100,000 miles a decade, if you assume an average speed of 30mph over that 100k then something like a escalator will rack up the same sort of hours of continuous running in few months.

Ac induction motors can run for years and years with no maintence at all.

my road tax on my van is free for some strange reason, was shocked when i taxed it.
the scooters use bugger all electric to charge my business electric bill is normally £18-£24 a month.
When a motor manufacture claims it to be not serviceable its don't mean unbreakable it normally means you have to replace the whole unit. and that will probably be main dealer only for years and years until someone cracks codes and stuff they will put in to stop others doing it.

 

[AndyRKett]

When a motor manufacture claims it to be not serviceable its don't mean unbreakable

Doesn't need to be serviced is not the same as not serviceable.

Ac induction motors means no coolant, no oil, no filters, no levels to check, no commutator, no brushes, there is literally nothing that needs to be serviced.

Batteries are sealed and don’t need fluid top ups or any other maintenance.

As a result teslas and alike have no annual service. Even brakes don’t wear anywhere near as quick because they use a lot of regenerative braking instead.

A service at a main dealer or even a good non dealer garage can costs hundreds of pounds these days.

And if for any reason something breaks then it can all be worked on, and in the USA there had been a number of recent legal hearings about the “right to repair” forcing companies to make the tools and software available to the public so that people can work on and repair there own cars without being forced to go to the dealer

 

[dave]

And if for any reason something breaks then it can all be worked on, and in the USA there had been a number of recent legal hearings about the “right to repair” forcing companies to make the tools and software available to the public so that people can work on and repair there own cars without being forced to go to the dealer

But makers of electric cars have been telling people to keep out of under the bonnet because the power under there can kill you.

 

[StevenRB45]

Doesn't need to be serviced is not the same as not serviceable.

A service at a main dealer or even a good non dealer garage can costs hundreds of pounds these days.

As far I'm concerned I'd take an electric motor over a modern engine and gearbox. As it stands I do pay an independent garage a few hundred quid a year for a thorough service on the Mazda. It's basically main dealer money but his rates on repairs are a lot lower and if anything he talks you out of work or at least has proper conversation about whether it is required rather than adding imaginary work on.

Would I want to run the Citroën or any properly modern car at the same age and mileage in the same way? No because it's a different thing with the stuff done for modern emissions they will struggle without all the diagnostic gear and specialist tools modern cars require anyway.

However none of my repairs so far have been power train related, so if my car was electric..he'd still have had the same amount of money off me..as electric cars do still have suspension..which if anything will probably break more often given the kerbweight and HVAC systems...and wheel bearings and all the other things that just start to wear out with age.

I'm pragmatic with it when the combustion car is a pain in the arse/uneconomic I'll get rid currently the electric car would be a bigger pain in the arse and uneconomic. Given so far the car has used quarter of a tank since the 1st of month fuel costs are basically nil and CO2 emissions won't be high either...but depreciation on a 30k car doing nothing 5 days a week would remain relentless.

 

[portland_bill]

But makers of electric cars have been telling people to keep out of under the bonnet because the power under there can kill you.

There are training courses in some countires for independent garages for working on the high voltage systems on EVs. There are procedures to cordon off the car, to keep others away when one person is working, and tools need to be insulated. More expense, and a right pain, but for most of the life of the car, not needed.
I think we will see a few independents setting up to handle the high voltage systems, with other independents just working on the steering, suspension, brakes, etc.
It is right to keep owners away from such systems, in the same way as they should keep away from the local electricity sub-staion.

 

[varesecrazy]

To be fair they have only recently installed these as they are a deal between tesco and VW in line with the launch of the new VW ID3

Pic was taken early Sept 2019..
1st time I had seen them there

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

where is it in the photo above then?

It isn't, as it's located behind the properties. People are just lazy and dump their cars out the front.

I dont believe these claims the electric engines don't need servicing, the vehicles i sell only run on 24v motors but still need to be serviced brushes replaced, bearings replaced, Commutator cleaned/ repaired. charging ports often need replacing too due to wear.

With all due respect, as Andy has already pointed out, ac scooter is very different to a modern brushless EV motor. I'm only aware of one EV having a motor with brushes, and thats the Renault Fluence.

Charging ports on EV's are a lot more durable.

I'm not saying you won't have wear and tear, such as wheel bearings etc, but they're not even part of a service schedule on an ICE and just get replaced adhoc if / when they fail.

Having at last obtained planning permission for a plot in Bristol, it was imperative that parking was 'on-site'. Requirement was for two car spaces, for a 4-bedroom house. Not enough when the kids get old enough to drive.

A large estate is being built behind me. The plans show the usual areas of allocated parking, not necessarily next to the house. No provision on the plans, or mention in the planning conditions, about car charging facilities. If not planned, I can't see it being easy to put chargng points at each pair of spaces later.

A slightly older estate nearby is a real mess. Each house has usually one space. Some got a garage, standard size, so difficult for any recent car, and no other space. There are some 4-bed houses with just a garage, and no other parking. Some architect seems to think that people will put the car in and out fo the garage for every journey, no matter how small.
Reality is parking all over the place, difficult to get along the roads after 6pm, and some areas where the Fire Service cannot get their trucks. It has been reported that two major insurance companies will not cover this estate, as fire damage will be total. Can't see it being easy to provide charging points anywhere there.

Yep, they don't allow enough parking. Modern estates are a joke, but the bigger joke is people putting up with it and buying these properties!

But makers of electric cars have been telling people to keep out of under the bonnet because the power under there can kill you.

Where? Mine actively advises to open the bonnet to check fluid levels and fill screen wash.

 

[puntofan01]

I must admit, unlike my best mate, who screams bloody murder on the subject, as long as they get the infrastructure sorted out, and the companies are able to reduce the environmental impact of building them, I don't actually have an issue with the concept of EVs taking over. My view is that as much as I would miss having a nice engine under the bonnet, and will really miss having a nice gearbox to operate, we need EV development to happen, as taking the issue of emissions out of the equation, sooner or later the oil will run out, and we need its replacement to be upto scratch.

However, what does sadden me is the thought of what will happen to all the existing cars. Granted, the vast majority of cars released within the last 10 years or so are utter dross, and will be of no loss whatsoever, but it's sad to think of the few decent moderns, and all the classics being rendered useless.

 

[dave]

as long as they get the infrastructure sorted out

That is the bit the government isn't doing, they are just saying no more fossil fuel cars can be sold. when they should be saying every new build home must have charging of at least 1 per household. put back the big discount for buying EVs and giving incentives to businesses to put chargers in their car parks.

 

[Eklipze3k]

Local authorities need to pull their fingers out of their proverbials and think about the best way to allow charging on ie. terraced streets with no off-street parking, there's not going to be one solution that fits every scenario so they need to start planning and doing now or it's gonna take a lot more than 10yrs to get stuff in place

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I was just thinking - strange but true - Aren't they saying we are all going to have to give up our gas boilers too? Presumably electric is going to have to "take the strain" whether being used directly with heating elements to heat the water or to power ground pumps (as I saw on the telly recently) That's going to be a not inconsiderable demand isn't it?

 

[dave]

I was just thinking - strange but true - Aren't they saying we are all going to have to give up our gas boilers too? Presumably electric is going to have to "take the strain" whether being used directly with heating elements to heat the water or to power ground pumps (as I saw on the telly recently) That's going to be a not inconsiderable demand isn't it?

demand that will be provided by Chinese owned nuclear power stations, other governments consider even Chinese phones to be a security threat but the UK lets them be in charge of potential giant bombs on its soil.

 

[dave]

demand that will be provided by Chinese owned nuclear power stations, other governments consider even Chinese phones to be a security threat but the UK lets them be in charge of potential giant bombs on its soil.

Or it will be these


Diesel powered charging stations :bang:

 

[varesecrazy]

Or it will be these
View attachment 214040

Diesel powered charging stations :bang:

In that climate vs the UK today
your EV will have 150% range anyway

 

[varesecrazy]

Just had a pop.up ad

'EuroCarParts now do fitting'

Great.. so as they stock just the 1 of everything

I'm going to pay TWICE for the priveledge of the
'Pair' or droplinks / track rod ends.. whatever..
wearing at completely different rates

Who needs online gambling.. ?