What's made you grumpy today?

[PuntoHowTo]

Being an old bloke, my 100HP was cheaper to insure than a 1.2 Dynamic. Work that one out!

Literally the reasons already written above.

Something like a Vauxhall corsa of which there are very many, are generally more likely to be in an accident than a relatively low volume, the panda 100hp was not massively popular amongst boy racers at any time in its life.

 

[DaveMcT]

...the panda 100hp was not massively popular amongst boy racers at any time in its life.

Some say the Citroen C1 is cooler.

 

[varesecrazy]

Literally the reasons already written above.

Something like a Vauxhall corsa of which there are very many, are generally more likely to be in an accident than a relatively low volume, the panda 100hp was not massively popular amongst boy racers at any time in its life.

A few years ago a lad at work wanted to buy an older 5 series

He bought a 3.0 because it was cheaper to buy AND insure than a comparable 2.5

Like all the other 19 year olds he wanted the 2.5.. not the'tartan rug' one

 

[varesecrazy]

Some say the Citroen C1 is cooler.

It definitely features more heavily in College car parks

 

[Didge3]

Literally the reasons already written above.

Something like a Vauxhall corsa of which there are very many, are generally more likely to be in an accident than a relatively low volume, the panda 100hp was not massively popular amongst boy racers at any time in its life.

When I was buying my first car I wanted a Mitsubishi Colt 2009 facelift because the front end looked like a 'Mini Evo'
Even in 1.1 poverty spec with hubcaps insurance was a good £500 more than I ended up paying on my 1.4 GP with alloys and some extra cc's (although very little extra power, I still stand by the 1.4 8v being the worst FIRE engine...

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

This made me sad rather than grumpy. Setting out on my daily walk yesterday, I'd just turned onto the Ferry Road - very busy main thoroughfare - when a large car transporter approached. Being always interested in cars I looked to see what was on it as it went past. It was loaded to max capacity with damaged cars, must have been a car breaker doing a collection run, and tagged on the back, front wheels up on a suspended tow, was a red Seicento. Couldn't see any obvious panel damage either! It looked so sad being, unwillingly, dragged along like that! Quite spoiled the first ten minutes or so of my walk!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

When I was buying my first car I wanted a Mitsubishi Colt 2009 facelift because the front end looked like a 'Mini Evo'
Even in 1.1 poverty spec with hubcaps insurance was a good £500 more than I ended up paying on my 1.4 GP with alloys and some extra cc's (although very little extra power, I still stand by the 1.4 8v being the worst FIRE engine...

When I was about 19 I had a 1.1 fiesta with barely enough power to take the skin off a rice pudding, I replaced that with a 1.8 120hp Ford Mondeo which was much bigger and much faster and knocked about £300 off my insurance because 19 year olds did not drive mondeos so insurance risks were considered lower. Later I bought a 4wd saloon version of the Mondeo (very rare) ghia spec and the costs for insurance where lower still.

If you compare brand to brand then you can see weird difference, but when I was younger there was always the Japanese premium for car insurance especially odd balls like the colt very few about not made in Europe and I think insurance companies saw them as unknown risk and expensive to repair I’m only hypothesising here though.

Having myself had the 1.4 8v Punto grande I completely agree with you it was a terrible engine possibly even less power and more sluggish that the. 1.1 fiesta I had. I think the main issue with it, is complete lack of any usable torque. Fiat have this brand identity of selling a “small car” and it seems they are obsessed with only selling a “small engine” despite the fact that in some models the small engine just hasn’t got the guts for the weight of the car. In 2006 Fiat shouldn’t have still been putting 8v 70 hp engines in cars weighing nearly as much as a 90s Mondeo

 

[StevenRB45]

Having myself had the 1.4 8v Punto grande I completely agree with you it was a terrible engine possibly even less power and more sluggish that the. 1.1 fiesta I had. I think the main issue with it, is complete lack of any usable torque. Fiat have this brand identity of selling a “small car” and it seems they are obsessed with only selling a “small engine” despite the fact that in some models the small engine just hasn’t got the guts for the weight of the car. In 2006 Fiat shouldn’t have still been putting 8v 70 hp engines in cars weighing nearly as much as a 90s Mondeo

To be fair to Fiat.. Volkswagen would sell you a 64bhp Polo all the way up to 2019, complete with a 0-60 listed as N/A. The 0-60 is the the same as my old UNO 999cc fire...in case you're wondering at 15.6 seconds.

However in most manufacturers pricelists these cars only exist for advertising purposes I.e. for the "from" price they didn't expect them to be a volume seller and chop all the options with more power so that your only choice is grim and then wonder why no one buys the damn car.

Rather telling that the Vauxhall version which received updates throughout its life and had a range reasonable engines was a top seller for much of it's life.

 

[StevenRB45]

Vauxhall Mokka owners forgetting their car doesn't have the power to exceed the speed limit on a slight uphill.



At this moment I had the main beams and brakes on...as he was doing 1-2mph more than the car he was overtaking and I had been sitting on the cruise at national limit.

 

[varesecrazy]

Vauxhall Mokka owners forgetting their car doesn't have the power

Theres nothing wrong with that engine.. in an Adam (or panda)

Multivehicle overtakes are always going to be dodgy..

But in some respects the cars in the middle are at fault.. if you are not going to overtake.. hang back.. let somebody else have a chance.

Ive seen an old Black Audi doing that twice in 10 days locally..
Hope they dont take anybody else with them

 

[StevenRB45]

Multivehicle overtakes are always going to be dodgy..

But in some respects the cars in the middle are at fault.. if you are not going to overtake.. hang back.. let somebody else have a chance.

In this particular case...he's either clueless tourist or an impatient Bellend.

Full video he was right at the end and Citroën cuts it up into two minute windows. Notice the 2 straights with around 3/4s of mile + of visibility he'd have got to if he waited 20 seconds rather than overtaking up a hill with limited visibility.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/7NJydHfAFe6EtXEE8

Oh and the reason I'm travelling at 56.5mph..that's an indicated 60 in the C3 with the cruise on don't worry though I didn't have a queue behind I left them when I cleared the Audi at the start of the video who had been doing 43 and was about to line him up until he pulled off.

 

[Didge3]

Having myself had the 1.4 8v Punto grande I completely agree with you it was a terrible engine possibly even less power and more sluggish that the. 1.1 fiesta I had. I think the main issue with it, is complete lack of any usable torque. Fiat have this brand identity of selling a “small car” and it seems they are obsessed with only selling a “small engine” despite the fact that in some models the small engine just hasn’t got the guts for the weight of the car. In 2006 Fiat shouldn’t have still been putting 8v 70 hp engines in cars weighing nearly as much as a 90s Mondeo

They sold the GP with the 1.2 8v as well which I did decide to avoid although I'm not sure it was significantly slower. I've driven a 1.2 8v in a mk2a and it seemed more responsive than the 1.4. The 1.4 just doesn't want to be revved but neither does it deal with being lugged, it's a terrible engine only made better by sticking another 8v on it, shame they just didn't sell it like that from day 1 of the GP,the mk2b already came with the 1.4 16v so its not like they didn't already have them!

 

[StevenRB45]

The 1.4 just doesn't want to be revved but neither does it deal with being lugged, it's a terrible engine only made better by sticking another 8v on it, shame they just didn't sell it like that from day 1 of the GP,the mk2b already came with the 1.4 16v so its not like they didn't already have them!

I drove the 1.4 Starjet in many configurations..none of them were particularly impressive.

1.4 sporting 2b and Panda HP were probably the better versions but all of them seemed surprisingly dim-witted and slow to respond compared 86bhp 1.2 16v when paired with a mk1 Punto.

I think the 3 main differences would have been, gearing, kerbweight and finally electronic throttle control which on a 1.4 16v 2b Dynamic + I drove especially seemed to be via a 32k modem.

I ended up preferring the Panda multijet to the 100hp, as it had mid range throttle response you couldn't get from the petrol without winding it right out and rode properly. The electronic throttle control doing a good impression of turbo lag on an na car didn't help the feeling of speed either. I was going to buy a mint low miles 2b 1.4 16v Dynamic plus but then I drove it and well the apparent additional power over the (then broken) mk1 was none existent..I'd also driven the Swift and C2 vts the day before and both were much faster.

What was quite funny was shortly after I got the Swift it needed warranty work so they gave me a Grande 1.2 8v as a loan car..this was the car that confirmed everything I'd enjoyed in base model Fiat's previously was dead. No zing to the engine, no care taken setting anything up, kicked out the factory door unfinished. Small Fiats even with the worst engine should feel light on their feet and the engine should be willing if not necessarily able...but nah felt lumpen and revving it out produced nothing but a headache and the ability to travel at the speed of a normal car.

 

[Didge3]

electronic throttle control which on a 1.4 16v 2b Dynamic + I drove especially seemed to be via a 32k modem.

 

[puntofan01]

They sold the GP with the 1.2 8v as well which I did decide to avoid although I'm not sure it was significantly slower. I've driven a 1.2 8v in a mk2a and it seemed more responsive than the 1.4. The 1.4 just doesn't want to be revved but neither does it deal with being lugged, it's a terrible engine only made better by sticking another 8v on it, shame they just didn't sell it like that from day 1 of the GP,the mk2b already came with the 1.4 16v so its not like they didn't already have them!

I've never driven a Grande with the 1.2, but I definitely think my 1.4 8v feels noticeably more grunty than my old mk2b 1.2 8v, despite being approximately 200kgs heavier. I remember my old 1.2 feeling more revvy, but my 1.4 feels more torquey. I think my mk2b felt more lively from a standstill than the Grande, but the in-gear acceleration definitely feels better than what I remember from my old mk2b.

I fully expect to get a lot of hate and insults from certain people for saying that, but please bear in mind that I traded in my mk2b just over 7 years ago!!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

They sold the GP with the 1.2 8v as well which I did decide to avoid although I'm not sure it was significantly slower. I've driven a 1.2 8v in a mk2a and it seemed more responsive than the 1.4. The 1.4 just doesn't want to be revved but neither does it deal with being lugged, it's a terrible engine only made better by sticking another 8v on it, shame they just didn't sell it like that from day 1 of the GP,the mk2b already came with the 1.4 16v so its not like they didn't already have them!

When I used to work In the motor trade back in the early 2000s we had loads of puntos and most of them were the 1.2 8v, partly why I loved the Punto was how sporty feeling even a basic spec was, you could put it in first gear and hit 30mph in a couple of seconds, they felt very nimble, light, minimal body roll. I had a 1.2 8v mk1 which was light as a feather and went off the line like a little rocket.

I remember on one occasion a whole truck of seicento s came one day and we had to get them to the garage for a check over. (The company I worked for bought 1-5 year old cars in bulk and sold them as good used cars) we had great fun driving all these sei’s to the garage in a tiny race across town darting through traffic and down some little narrow alleys

I think the main reason many love Fiat is because of the revvy little responsive 1.2 or lower capacity engines fitted to almost everything fiat made for the last 30+ years

The joint venture with Vauxhall really spoiled the recipe my 1.4 8v In the grande was fat gutless and sluggish, sounded like it was screaming when just cruising on a motorway.

I get the 1.2 8v was never meant to be to be a long distance cruiser and it really was fun little car around town but something went drastically wrong when they dropped the 8v engine in the grande and while people initially liked the looks and they sold reasonably well for the first couple of years, once word got out people stopped buying puntos which given the mk1 was one of the best selling cars in europe in it’s time time, it’s a sad state of affairs that they ended up killing it off.

 

[StevenRB45]

I always wondered about the 1.4 multiair N/A I had the opportunity to get one for about 7k as my employer got 25% off list at the time or something similar.

In theory it should be a good thing if memory serves it had a 6 speed box as well to deal with revving it's knackers off at motorway speed. Was also 104bhp which is one less than the Mazda gets out of a 1.6...so it should have been pretty zippy. But seemed to get canned 10 minutes after launch when Fiat decided the only small cars they cared about had a 500 badge on them. Even the Panda is suffering from a significantly reduced range but at least in that case the engine is mildly competitive.

The multiair reviewed well then just disappeared think it saw brief service in the Punto sporting as in the Grande after they dropped the word Grande from the name and was in the Eleganza for less than a year before that. Seemed a waste of time...as they just went back to supplying 77bhp 8v as the only option.

I'm not a fast car guy by any means but having to flog it everyday just to get up to my house without being a rolling road block got pretty old in the 55s Mk1 and also has significant impact on reliability long term.

 

[Cheest]

Planned on working from home this week. Sitting my couch this morning when I get a call from the factory. "Help! We are effing morons and need you to come and fix stuff you already showed us how to fix. Please hurry!" My boss agreed.

Now sitting on my butt at O'hare for my 50th flight of the year.

Eff Me.:yuck:

 

[Didge3]

I always wondered about the 1.4 multiair N/A I had the opportunity to get one for about 7k as my employer got 25% off list at the time or something similar.

In theory it should be a good thing if memory serves it had a 6 speed box as well to deal with revving it's knackers off at motorway speed. Was also 104bhp which is one less than the Mazda gets out of a 1.6...so it should have been pretty zippy. But seemed to get canned 10 minutes after launch when Fiat decided the only small cars they cared about had a 500 badge on them. Even the Panda is suffering from a significantly reduced range but at least in that case the engine is mildly competitive.

The multiair reviewed well then just disappeared think it saw brief service in the Punto sporting as in the Grande after they dropped the word Grande from the name and was in the Eleganza for less than a year before that. Seemed a waste of time...as they just went back to supplying 77bhp 8v as the only option.

I'm not a fast car guy by any means but having to flog it everyday just to get up to my house without being a rolling road block got pretty old in the 55s Mk1 and also has significant impact on reliability long term.

When I got my 3rd Punto, the 2013 so the final facelifted variant I was hunting for a multiair 1.4, I found a few in the Punto Evo's but only 1 in the facelift and it looked like it'd be driven through a hedge so ended up with a TwinAir, which was fun in itself anyway.
The TA had the 6 speed box, not sure if it would've been the same ratios (probably with Fiat dipping heavily into the parts bin by that point), realistically all it gave you is a really short 1st gear and then slightly longer 2nd - 6th, 70mph was still ~3200 iirc

 

[PuntoHowTo]

The multiair probably wasn’t all that bad and they used it exclusively in the 124 spider. They also used it in the Punto Evo abarth and shoved a cheap version in the 1.4 petrol Punto sporting with 130bhp as well.

They introduced it in the Punto about 2012 with the Evo, but it was expensive and at the time 104hp was low for such a complex turbo.

130 was reasonable but again made the car expensive for what it was and only in a 3 door. Then in the years that followed the whole CO2 fiddling came out and Fiat promptly dropped the 1.4 multiair in further puntos in Europe but in places like North America where emissions for such a small car where not such an issue they carried on putting it in every fiat 500 abarth 124 spider, I think even normal 1.4 500s got it.

I concluded from that, that the 1.4 had a higher than claimed CO2 and they didn’t want it being investigated here in Europe so quietly dropped it. And it met standards in the USA and so they left it. This is all completely made up in my mind I have no actual proof or information to that effect.

The other issue is the multiair system was a couple of years old by 2013 when they rebranded the Evo as just Punto and by that time failure rates of the multiair system where abnormally high and expensive, making it another reason to drop the engine if they felt it might impact on there reputation. Reputation in the USA was already low and to Change the engine there would me retooling there Mexico factory.