What's made you grumpy today?

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What's made you grumpy today?

There will be absolutely no incentive to them to get you back in your panda, they will be making a very tidy sum off your finance deal and if you’re outside of 30 days then there is no way of just “going back” you would have to buy your way out of the finance deal which would mean settling what is owed once the value of the car is taken off and you would only be offered the trade value of the citroen, then you’d need to buy the panda back

Ah okay, well then no hope of a return to the Panda then. I’m double-paying this car off each month (in general) so it won’t be long until it’s mines to either sell on or trade if it proves to be troublesome. So it could just be a rocky year.

I think at this rate (given that Fiat are merging with PSA) my next car is going to be a Toyota of some sort :-/
 
If anything I'm slightly amazed you bought it..I spent a long time on here whinging about how crap our ds3 was.

It's nice looking car designed at a time when PSA was broke and built in France to indifferent standards.

My amazement knew no bounds when the c3 arrived with all body panels the same colour and fitting on to the car correctly.

But we'll still be taking the extended warranty option even though it's been literally faultless as I don't particularly trust it to remain so. But I'd also not run a VW without a warranty either. If you go on honest John and have a look at the good and bad section for the Mazda 3 there's about 20 items of issues people have had 16 of which are for the 1.6 diesel..which you'll be glad to know is the one fitted to the DS3. The rest are for the ABS pump which is an industry standard part also fitted to Golfs.

Here's the golf one

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/golf-vii-2013/good

If it gets fixed worst case get a decent aftermarket warranty once the used car warranty runs out until a decent time to change otnpresents itself.
 
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If anything I'm slightly amazed you bought it..I spent a long time on here whinging about how crap our ds3 was.

It's nice looking car designed at a time when PSA was broke and built in France to indifferent standards.

My amazement knew no bounds when the c3 arrived with all body panels the same colour and fitting on to the car correctly.

But we'll still be taking the extended warranty option even though it's been literally faultless as I don't particularly trust it to remain so. But I'd also not run a VW without a warranty either. If you go on honest John and have a look at the good and bad section for the Mazda 3 there's about 20 items of issues people have had 16 of which are for the 1.6 diesel..which you'll be glad to know is the one fitted to the DS3. The rest are for the ABS pump which is an industry standard part also fitted to Golfs.

Here's the golf one

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/golf-vii-2013/good


What you will never really find is a list of every version of a car made versus ever problem that version of that model has. Vw DSG gear boxes are known to have problem so if 10% of golfs sold are DSG and 20% of those have a major and very expensive problem then all “golfs” get the reputation of having bad gear boxes. Even though 98% of all cars are fine, and most of those would not even develop the problem causing the bad reputation.

Something like a Mazda 3 probably is very reliable but then they didn’t sell anywhere near the numbers of something like a Ford Fiesta, also if a car is a bit left field like a Mazda 3 then you don’t get the same spread of owners like a (say) fiesta where a certain percentage won’t look after the car at all. I’d argue a Mazda 3 owners is in general more likely to look after their car better than someone who bought a “throwaway” Ford Focus from a used car supermarket. So it’s hardly a surprise if a higher number of fords develop faults.

Trying to claim any one car is much better than another for reliability had as much to do with build quality is it does the person who owns and drives it (we’ve all had that one mate who always ruins cars)

The best and only real way to compare is to look at figures from the waranty companies and also try and work out if the “common problems” like a DSG gear box is really going to affect your manual gear box car.

I’m in agreement with your first comment though.

Back in 2013 when my wife crashed her Punto the DS3 was a consideration (as one point we had a C3 as a loan car and both kinda liked it) but it was a toss up with the Mini Cooper and the DS3 she didn’t like something about the Citroën (can’t remember what now) and since then she is now on her 3rd mini. Reading all the problems you had with your DS3 and actually others here have also reported, I’m glad she didn’t go with the Citroën
 
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I was merely pointing out that not everyone has the same experience with a Golf as you have.

Apparently not everyone has the same experience with a DS3 either seem to recall I was the only one whose car was ocean going turd on the DS3 forums at the time. Other than the guy who was called a cry baby and left when he had the temerity to suggest build quality wasn't great when Citroen had to respray his whole car due to paint flaws on every panel.

Yes, I've just bought a Citroen for keeps which may seem like cognitive dissonance in action but I have no intention of it ever being out of warranty or mot cover. Also as I've said before I like it because it has a character and you never see yourself coming the other way. However people also like those weird things in the dark corners of the Internet...so you know.

Happy wife, happy life etc and it is a cheap car. It was 5 grand cheaper than a similar spec polo new...and would now be 3 grand cheaper if I'd paid retail for it so the polo has actually lost more money.

Peugeot tends to beat VW rather a lot in those warranty tables..as does Fiat oddly.

Infact look up the C3 on here, and compare to the Golf.
https://www.reliabilityindex.com/reliability/search/303

Mazda doesn't do very well on there either but the diesels are made of chocolate.
 
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Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II

If anything I'm slightly amazed you bought it..I spent a long time on here whinging about how crap our ds3 was.

It's nice looking car designed at a time when PSA was broke and built in France to indifferent standards.

My amazement knew no bounds when the c3 arrived with all body panels the same colour and fitting on to the car correctly.

But we'll still be taking the extended warranty option even though it's been literally faultless as I don't particularly trust it to remain so. But I'd also not run a VW without a warranty either. If you go on honest John and have a look at the good and bad section for the Mazda 3 there's about 20 items of issues people have had 16 of which are for the 1.6 diesel..which you'll be glad to know is the one fitted to the DS3. The rest are for the ABS pump which is an industry standard part also fitted to Golfs.

Here's the golf one

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/volkswagen/golf-vii-2013/good

If it gets fixed worst case get a decent aftermarket warranty once the used car warranty runs out until a decent time to change otnpresents itself.

Any recommendation on a used car warranty I could look for? Never considered that. Perhaps that’s the way to go. There’s a guy on YouTube, Doug DeMuro, he reviews all these exotic luxury cars and it’s fractionating to see how the 1% live! But he had a 2012 Range Rover I think it was, with a used car warranty and he’d post updates and costs of all the work he got done through it... let’s just say he got his money’s worth lol

The DS3 had a bit of a soft spot for me as (back before I knew much or cared much about cars) they’d always stand out with the shark fin, as a kid I loved Range Rovers and when I saw the Evoque reveal in 2011 suddenly the black ‘floating roof’ idea was something I was always in awe of. And then as I got into the Fiat’s and started to admire more unusual designs (in the way that the French and Italians tend to do that others would never risk) I started to think well “at least it’s got some character like the Panda” , as I contemplated switching earlier this year.

And of course, they’re popular as hell. everywhere you look where I live, there’s a black and white one! So they’re cheap used and I think mines is an example of how towards the end they loaded a tonne of equipment up on them for not much compared to competitors as mentioned like the Polo and Fiesta, would all be a few grand more for a comparable spec. So I was lured into it with the big spec list - especially given that this past year I was still impressed by the fact my second Panda had air con! Lol


I’ll level with you all but, on why I switched. And yes it’s kind of a silly reason, the kind of which me from a year or two ago would clench a fist over hearing.

Basically, it’s not that I typically care too much about how I look or what people think. And I loved the design of the Panda for exactly why most people tend to not like it and all of that - as you all know. But personally I found myself standing out because of it, and even some decent people unconsciously sort of didn’t like being in it or associated with it (I could just tell) and I found myself having to explain why I opted for it etc, the first Panda was given to me and me and all my friends and students drove all sorts of old cars. But now we’re all working - some of them were upgrading to things like Scirrocio’s and 3 series and things - not my cup of tea. But then you’ve got me there in the Panda! And even though it wasn’t the case, it sort of suggested I wasn’t really striving enough I guess. Found myself explaining my choice to people who didn’t really ask, then I started to think right, if I just get something that doesn’t stand out and doesn’t need to be explained that’d be great. (I know I’ll probably get judged for admitting this reason!)

And then I saw the DS. I just assumed that by now, the likes of parking sensors, touch screens and what have you weren’t even considered ‘high technology’ and even in a run of the mill car based on the C3, they’d be pretty much flawless these days. But I’m learning the hard way now! Lol

Surprised to hear that Mazda share an engine with the 1.6bHDi in my DS. I remember a man up the street a few years ago had a 2.2 Ford Mondeo Titanium X Sport that had Citroen badge stamped parts under the bonnet. (For the life of me i don’t know what made that car any good in his eyes, to me it just looked like it could have a label on the back saying “100% Pure Car” haha)
 
1.6 HDi arrived via Ford back in the day, they used it to 2014.

The Touchscreen in the C3 is a generation ahead of the one in the DS3 so shared with current 308, 3008, 208 e.t.c. the gear in the DS3 is the old style.

I still avoided the Nav though, it was never going to be better than android auto so we just bought a cable and use that.

We went OEM Citroen warranty as it was cheap option and car qualified but don't think yours would unfortunately as it needs to be under current manufacturer warranty.
 
Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II

Basically, it’s not that I typically care too much about how I look or what people think. And I loved the design of the Panda for exactly why most people tend to not like it and all of that - as you all know. But personally I found myself standing out because of it, and even some decent people unconsciously sort of didn’t like being in it or associated with it (I could just tell) and I found myself having to explain why I opted for it etc,


And even though it wasn’t the case, it sort of suggested I wasn’t really striving enough I guess. Found myself explaining my choice to people who didn’t really ask, then I started to think right, if I just get something that doesn’t stand out and doesn’t need to be explained that’d be great. (I know I’ll probably get judged for admitting this reason!)

This appears to say more about you than the other people. If people are not saying anything they probably didn’t care, most people honestly don’t care what care someone else drives, they are more likely to be jealous of a flashy super car than in anyway put off if a mate drives something cheap. The fact you found yourself explaining your choices seems to suggest you were embarrassed by the panda.

Your problem with the DS is it seems you bought it to impress other people than to please yourself.

I drive a purple convertible golf, it gets called a “girls car” all the time, usually by women in my office (in fact my boss but she drove a Yaris so she got grief back) but I couldn’t care less it’s exactly what I wanted and even 5 years on I can’t find anything else I want to replace it with, I’ve looked I just don’t see the point, there is nothing that’s equivalent at the moment.

When picking a car I picked a brief not a car, and I wanted a smaller ‘proper’ convertible (no roll over hoops or sides like a 500c) something I could put all the windows down, with a fabric roof that and could be used while moving and something in an interesting colour (not black silver or grey, like every other car on the road) I wanted a Diesel engine, I wanted heated leather seats and cruise control. I got all boxes checked.

That basically left the golf or the beetle, I hated the beetle and the golf has a weirdly large boot.
So I didn’t pick ‘a golf’ the golf just fitted what I wanted at that time, same as when I bought my silver punto back in 2008 or my other cars in the past, I rarely go out and say I specifically want..... car, I want a car to do a job. In aviation they say back the right plane for “the mission” even private pilots do this picking a plane to suit there needs rather because it particularly stands our or looks flash.

As most motoring publications do point out ‘buy a golf’ because for any brief someone might have there is usually a golf to fit.

It the criteria was applied today I would not be buying a VW.

I think you’ll have to stick with the he DS for the next few years but in future remember two things, 1 no one actually does care what you drive, and 2 you have to live with it, pay for it and keep it running, you may spend many many hours driving it so for the love of god get something you actually want, even if that’s a 35 year old Nissan bluebird
 
I’m sure it was the same engine in our 1.6 2012 Mini Cooper D

It arrived via the same deal that created the Prince in the Mini/DS3 another wonder of modern technology.

It's one of the most common engines of modern times if not the most common. They are OK if you do a diesel mileage and service it religiously with the correct oil and fix any little issues that crop up.

They just have a habit of small issues snowballing into engine failure. Eg. if the injectors leak and you don't fix it, it fouls the oil...this then blocks the turbo oil feed, turbo fails and pieces get sucked into the engine. That and people treat symptoms not problems, so if a turbo fails its usually oil starvation..but they just replace the turbo..leaving the probably mostly blocked oil feed in place then wonder why the new turbo lasted 5k miles.

Add the usual DPF issues and Eolys fluid things...and the habit they have of killing fuel pumps and filters and it's not an engine you want in it's old age unless you do the miles and know it has been looked after.

Older they get the more people skimp on maintenance and it's not that unusual for them to fail at less than 100k.

A bloke did kill the engine in mine at 95k, but he'd done 60k without changing the oil.

I will say I agree with Andy, always buy a car you want not one for anyone else.

If anything that's why I didn't change mine when I had the opportunity, I'd have been changing it for the sake of it. My wife would have had a car she didn't really want (my Mazda) I'd have had a car I didn't particularly want either so it made no sense.

At the end of the day it's you that drives it and looks after it, if it makes you happy then that's what it needs to do as you tend to forgive cars if they make you smile.

So we both keep cars we like instead and one day the rust will get the Mazda or an electric car I like and don't mind paying the money for will come along and I'll move it on.
 
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The radio / nav-screen is crashing every two minutes... but worse... it comes back on tuned into Radio 1 (totally unacceptable :eek: having to hear that)

Is Radio 1 one of the presets? I'm guessing probably preset 1. If so, or whatever preset it is, set that to your favourite station. Hopefully then, after a crash (system, not road traffic collision) it will reset to your favourite.
 
Is Radio 1 one of the presets? I'm guessing probably preset 1. If so, or whatever preset it is, set that to your favourite station. Hopefully then, after a crash (system, not road traffic collision) it will reset to your favourite.

On this subject may be worth downloading the My Citroen app on your phone.

I believe it allows access to firmware updates I say believe as I've not done it as don't fix what isn't broken! However it may be you could get updated firmware which would solve your issues.
 
Re: What's made you grumpy today? (Part II

This appears to say more about you than the other people. If people are not saying anything they probably didn’t care, most people honestly don’t care what care someone else drives, they are more likely to be jealous of a flashy super car than in anyway put off if a mate drives something cheap. The fact you found yourself explaining your choices seems to suggest you were embarrassed by the panda.

Your problem with the DS is it seems you bought it to impress other people than to please yourself.

I drive a purple convertible golf, it gets called a “girls car” all the time, usually by women in my office (in fact my boss but she drove a Yaris so she got grief back) but I couldn’t care less it’s exactly what I wanted and even 5 years on I can’t find anything else I want to replace it with, I’ve looked I just don’t see the point, there is nothing that’s equivalent at the moment.

When picking a car I picked a brief not a car, and I wanted a smaller ‘proper’ convertible (no roll over hoops or sides like a 500c) something I could put all the windows down, with a fabric roof that and could be used while moving and something in an interesting colour (not black silver or grey, like every other car on the road) I wanted a Diesel engine, I wanted heated leather seats and cruise control. I got all boxes checked.

That basically left the golf or the beetle, I hated the beetle and the golf has a weirdly large boot.
So I didn’t pick ‘a golf’ the golf just fitted what I wanted at that time, same as when I bought my silver punto back in 2008 or my other cars in the past, I rarely go out and say I specifically want..... car, I want a car to do a job. In aviation they say back the right plane for “the mission” even private pilots do this picking a plane to suit there needs rather because it particularly stands our or looks flash.

As most motoring publications do point out ‘buy a golf’ because for any brief someone might have there is usually a golf to fit.

It the criteria was applied today I would not be buying a VW.

I think you’ll have to stick with the he DS for the next few years but in future remember two things, 1 no one actually does care what you drive, and 2 you have to live with it, pay for it and keep it running, you may spend many many hours driving it so for the love of god get something you actually want, even if that’s a 35 year old Nissan bluebird

Yeah, though people did make remarks about the Panda. And you’d be surprised how shallow and judgemental some people my age can be in terms of making an assessment on you based on things like that. Though it doesn’t matter in the grand scheme. But yeah it did get to me and not proud of it - after all the years of not caring about the Panda and what they thought. Though they do say the DS3 is a girls car too (and they call it purple even though it’s very dark blue) so in that sense, can’t win! But I can live with that. At the end of the day this doesn’t stand out because of the sheer amount of DS3’s about.

That’s true about making the commitment and sticking with it in the long run. I do think down the line - if this car does give me a lot of issues - then I probably will go for a Toyota of some sort. And regardless, just like you said about a criteria, it’ll need to fit that at the time.

My criteria that led to the DS was under £10k, under 30k miles, 2017 or newer, diesel (given my mileage) and decent spec but I think most cars compared to the Panda were fine in that regard. So I saw it at £9k, 17k miles, 2017 and the 120hp, xenon lights, cruise control and thing all exceeded what else I could find.

I think what also annoys me is the lack of good community support like we have here at Fiat Forum. The lack of info online about it (like ePer or the software we can download on here leaked from Fiat). I think the modern Citroen software after 2016 or so needs a subscription from Citroen to work which means all this electric stuff and any issues and I need to actually pay the dealer to diagnose it ... because I did buy this knowing it was French, but armed with the confidence that since I could fix the Panda myself with a bit of research I assumed I could find the equivalent info on the DS. Looks like maybe not though
 
On this subject may be worth downloading the My Citroen app on your phone.

I believe it allows access to firmware updates I say believe as I've not done it as don't fix what isn't broken! However it may be you could get updated firmware which would solve your issues.

I’ve got the MyDS app. It’s quite good in terms of tracking miles and all. Don’t think it will do the firmware (otherwise I must be on the latest) as I can’t find the option. I know the website element has sat nav updates which I’ve done once (very slow process).

I’ll see what the independent dealer says on Monday. Hopefully they have a way of fixing it or replacing it
 

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A couple of years ago a friends DS3 blew the washer fuse.. VERY common PSA problem due to its designed location

But info was very hard to get ..
Mainly older models.. and no threads to gollow.. just yes-no answers

My experience of a tired 307 years ago put FIAT niggles into perspective..

Most modern cars are so reliant on 'tech'
that nothing is immune..
But opting for a lowly spec can save hassles

Let the supplying garage get things working.. that is what you paid 'dealer prices' for ;)
 
Bloody Scottish Gas electric:mad: Trying for a week to put money in our meter key. Not possible, five times with different codes, I’m cracking up. Wife on puter yesterday and engineer called today. He told us that SG are telling lies to customers, absolutely lovely chap. Bottom line, the best thing we could do is change companies, which we will be doing. Engineer sorted our key before he went, so it’s usable again, but what a fanny about.

The engineer chap really is a rarity these days...(y)
 
My grump; the new DS3 has yet another electrical fault :bang: will be calling garage for another warranty claim :-(
At least it's minor ;-) I hope.
Fuses are all fine and it's only a partial failure, so I'm think its a problem with the plug as the circuit also looked and tested fine...

SB1500

How is it driving?

Happy now you are getting used to diesel :)
 
I moved from Scottish Gas/Electric to Avro because of escalating prices - they were good but Im now with Pure Planet and find them even better
 
SB1500

How is it driving?

Happy now you are getting used to diesel :)

I must admit, it still feels like a jet engine to me on an open road (though one with a noticeable delay before anything happens). Though I have become immune to the overly torquey feeling that sort of won me over in the first test drive now.

When I drive to Coleraine (a town at the top of Northern Ireland) there’s a big mountain road. The DS can get up it on cruise control at 60mph no problem! The Panda was fine with a good ‘run up’ and could manage just about. Same on the way back from Belfast, a long long straight climb road where the Panda would run out of steam half way up and need 4th. This just flies up it happily enough.

The one thing I will say is, unlike the petrol, this does NOT like being in the wrong gear. It’ll shudder horrifically even for a short second of the wrong gear!

But drive wise. I do love it. It has more than enough power for its size and for me. On a long journey it is much easier and relaxing as I can set it on to a speed or limit it and forget about monitoring the instrument cluster on open roads.

Now that I’ve got one, I think it’s a shame that there probably won’t be diesels at all in the future. But at least I’ll be able to speak of the time I owned one now!
 
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