What's made you grumpy today?

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What's made you grumpy today?

I think it's a falsehood to say that demarcation is a uniquely public sector problem.

I recently had the honour of having to manage a major IT fault. Not a password reset, a proper one. The conversation went like this, it's a database issue contact the database team, it's not a database issue contact the applications team, it's not an application issue contact the hardware team..it's not a hardware issue contact database team.

This continued for about 20 days until I lost my rag set up a meeting for everyone I'd been passed between and had meetings with to inform them that one of them was going to fix it and didn't care who.

Which they duly did...by switching it off and on.
 
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I think it's a falsehood to say that demarcation is a uniquely public sector problem.

I recently had the honour of having to manage a major IT fault. Not a password reset, a proper one. The conversation went like this, it's a database issue contact the database team, it's not a database issue contact the applications team, it's not an application issue contact the hardware team..it's not a hardware issue contact database team.

This continued for about 20 days until I lost my rag set up a meeting for everyone I'd been passed between and had meetings with to inform them that one of them was going to fix it and didn't care who.

Which they duly did...by switching it off and on.

And that is the problem with modern IT Systems.

So a company wants an end to end system for "doing something". They call in external companies to "bid" a design and cost. Donald Duck Enterprises get up and quacks away merrily whilst drawing on the whiteboard. Database here, database there, transaction processing system here, message queuing system there, distributed backup here, cloud infrastructure, ....... ......

Nice good looking design of 20+ interlinked applications/systems and the price looks good.

Job done!

Takes longer that expected to implement, the little simple links from box to box on the white board were an over simplification and many more complex than the box content.

In production, teams disband and then "BANG"! Nobody wants to know or get involved if they can avoid it. Meanwhile the chief architect Donald Duck has long since moved on to bigger and better whiteboards for more money.

It is called progress (y)
 
And that is the problem with modern IT Systems.

It is called progress (y)

It's better than that..our I.T. was offshored to save costs years ago...then recently brought back in house due to the off shore IT costing money in additional down time. Nice idea but seems it was done without a proper handover so there's various bits that might as well just say 'here thar be monsters'

Oh and as we're getting a new system next year we've lapsed the support agreement on the current one..so if IT get stuck they don't have anyone to ask.
 
Won't go down the offshore disaster. The initial return on "no" real investment made the executives (pigs at the trough) huge amounts of money, bunuses, etc. only to potentially damage their companies and if nothing else give massive headaches to those who followed.

Speak from 28 years of loyal company dedication/experience only to be cast aside aged 54/55.

No regrets as I'm actually so pleased to be out of this **** for the last 10 years and I see said company continually sliding down the charts. Was in the past a Fortune 500 leader, top of tree item. Dropped out of the 500 many years ago.

I just hate/despair/deplore the talent (because of age and off shoring) that has been wasted and even destroyed.

Enough! Back to FIATS please.
 
some brainwashed idiot from Hartlepool on the news saying Corbyn isnt interested in the north and he is a London mp, so he is going to vote farage instead :bang:
that's the same Jeremy corbyn who campaigned for the minors when thatcher took away their income, i have news for him there were no mines in London.
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Unfortunately, Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and campaigns in support of other similar groups of terrorists who are very much anti-UK so even if he has some some remarkably good things and claims he will, he's a no-go to me and many others in NI.


Thankfully, Corbnyn is the best God-sent person on the planet for people like me who would prefer Conservatives or even Farage in power a thousand times before Corbyn. Because as long as he's invovled, they have zero percent (0%) chance of winning any election. Boris is bad? I get it. But he's far from that bad. You'll see at the polls. Or, remoaners, are we going to have a discussion that the polls aren't fair and we should go back on that decision too.......?


note: Not a fan of Corbyn. Labour without him would be a fairly decent, albeit different approach to runnign the country, that would bring benefits in other areas I know. But with him, even a lot of really hardcore born into liking Labour people I know in Cheshire are geuninely feeling that their party is a mess, doesn't work and doesn't speak to them. He's damaging Labour itself. Thankfully it's unlikely he'll get the chance to damage the country.


Quote me on it after the election, I supopose! Because I don't think he's got a chance, frankly. It's a shame because Labour does have its place in the world and a bit of a switch up every 10 years or so would probably be for the best. But not with Comrade Corbyn..
 
Unfortunately, Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and campaigns in support of other similar groups of terrorists who are very much anti-UK so even if he has some some remarkably good things and claims he will, he's a no-go to me and many others in NI.

This just shows a willful ignorance of a situation, you’re clearly only going to believe what you want to believe but I can assure you everything Corbyn was accused of doing in public goes on behind closed doors with other people. If you think this stuff is that simple and easy you have a huge amount to understand about politics.

Now remind me, how many seats are held by conservative or labour in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and how many people sitting in those seats who where voted for by northern Irish people, are there because of their past links to certain organisations
 
This just shows a willful ignorance of a situation, you’re clearly only going to believe what you want to believe but I can assure you everything Corbyn was accused of doing in public goes on behind closed doors with other people. If you think this stuff is that simple and easy you have a huge amount to understand about politics.

Now remind me, how many seats are held by conservative or labour in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and how many people sitting in those seats who where voted for by northern Irish people, are there because of their past links to certain organisations

Surprisingly to me, a huge awareness of the many ethnic groups, cultural leaders and organisations that are taking the same stance on Corbyn as me have been on the news lately and reinforces the legitimate-ness of the disapproval I have for 'Jezza'. In other words, it's not just me who dislikes him.


Remember, it's just as valid for somebody with a different view to your own to dislike a politician for reasons that you might not see as important or in the same light.


As I said, we'll see in the election how unpopular he is and how poorly Labour will do because of him. Quote me on it at the time, I guess.

See Andy, this is where people who like Brexit etc. win in the argument. We're able to state and agree that the opposite view point does have its merits and benefits, but we're saying essentially we don't care / we'll forego those benefits to overcome things we see as a problem. That applies to any political discussion. For example, I can agree with and list benefits of Labour, benefits of the EU, etc. But what has truly made 2016 onwards toxic isn't Trump, isn't Brexit and isn't Boris ... It's people like you and who dislike them who think that they're 100% terrible and have zero redeeming qualities, and can't take onboard that there are in fact some beneficial factors to things simply because you don't like them.


You're perfectly entitled to think different or not like things, but if you can't see any good in the other viewpoint, perhaps you're on the wrong side of pointing at one group and callign them 'irrational', 'ignorant' and 'useless'. Think about that.
 
I agree with you Andy. Will add to this, only in the spirit of a necessary debate and so far reasonable enough, not to have a go at any one person.

EDIT: this response was published in the time line at the same time as another which I have only just read. We should indeed state as best we can our impressions of the candidates, and we should allow challenge of that. Try and avoid direct personal suggestions on all sides. My agreement with Andy was simply the unqualified terrorist sympathy comment, which has now been better explained. End edit.

Corbyn has learnt a great deal about campaigning and seems to be using a less is more approach right now. He is entitled to change his options, however he seems to be quite principled and considered, although too far left for me. Boris is an out and out liar, I still feel compelled to vote for him, because when it hits the buffers I trust him and his party to act most responsibly even if it annoys the popular vote.

On terrorism, I am Irish, I clearly sympathise with the republican cause, as has Corbyn, I don't sympathise with certain terrorist methods of old, all grown up since then. Nor do I sympathise with the former British empire.

On Palestine it is a disaster, I have most sympathy for their cause, that is not anti semitic, it is anti a particularly unpleasant policy of a particular state.

Is political or peace negotiation difficult and unpleasant? Yes.

In the UK right now, guess you know where my compromise has to land, I am willing to read proper debate anywhere though.
This just shows a willful ignorance of a situation, you’re clearly only going to believe what you want to believe but I can assure you everything Corbyn was accused of doing in public goes on behind closed doors with other people. If you think this stuff is that simple and easy you have a huge amount to understand about politics.

Now remind me, how many seats are held by conservative or labour in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and how many people sitting in those seats who where voted for by northern Irish people, are there because of their past links to certain organisations
 
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Surprisingly to me, a huge awareness of the many ethnic groups, cultural leaders and organisations that are taking the same stance on Corbyn as me have been on the news lately and reinforces the legitimate-ness of the disapproval I have for 'Jezza'. In other words, it's not just me who dislikes him.


Remember, it's just as valid for somebody with a different view to your own to dislike a politician for reasons that you might not see as important or in the same light.


As I said, we'll see in the election how unpopular he is and how poorly Labour will do because of him. Quote me on it at the time, I guess.

See Andy, this is where people who like Brexit etc. win in the argument. We're able to state and agree that the opposite view point does have its merits and benefits, but we're saying essentially we don't care / we'll forego those benefits to overcome things we see as a problem. That applies to any political discussion. For example, I can agree with and list benefits of Labour, benefits of the EU, etc. But what has truly made 2016 onwards toxic isn't Trump, isn't Brexit and isn't Boris ... It's people like you and who dislike them who think that they're 100% terrible and have zero redeeming qualities, and can't take onboard that there are in fact some beneficial factors to things simply because you don't like them.


You're perfectly entitled to think different or not like things, but if you can't see any good in the other viewpoint, perhaps you're on the wrong side of pointing at one group and callign them 'irrational', 'ignorant' and 'useless'. Think about that.

Thanks for your waffling rant, I refer you to my original point and the only thing I called you out in is your belief that Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser, and that you won’t be voting for him in Northern Ireland, now as stated does labour have a huge presence in the Northern Ireland assembly? Are all of those who are actually in the Northern Ireland assembly any better on the “sympathisers” front?
Now just to put things in perspective you can’t form an argument where you blame the other person for everything that’s wrong, with the justification that that person is unable to see things from someone else’s point of view or see any redeeming qualities in a situation/person, while you attack them for not having the same views as you. The fact that you used Trump in your argument, the guy who is literally being impeached at the moment for corruption, does make a significant hole in your argument.

Time to calm down a bit and not be so uptight doesn’t matter who you vote for or what your vote for, the system is screwed, you get brexit you will get screwed one way or another. You don’t get brexit you still get screwed. What you’re literally arguing about is how much shafting you’re willing to take is better than the amount of shafting someone with a different view would get if their belief were to be realised. It is simply madness and totally laughable. The fact you are taking it all so seriously and getting so angry about it shows how little you understand about the current situation
 
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Thanks for your waffling rant, I refer you to my original point and the only thing I called you out in is your belief that Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser, and that you won’t be voting for him in Northern Ireland, now as stated does labour have a huge presence in the Northern Ireland assembly? Are all of those who are actually in the Northern Ireland assembly any better on the “sympathisers” front?
Now just to put things in perspective you can’t form an argument where you blame the other person for everything that’s wrong, with the justification that that person is unable to see things from someone else’s point of view or see any redeeming qualities in a situation/person, while you attack them for not having the same views as you. The fact that you used Trump in your argument, the guy who is literally being impeached at the moment for corruption, does make a significant hole in your argument.

Time to calm down a bit and not be so uptight doesn’t matter who you vote for or what your vote for, the system is screwed, you get brexit you will get screwed one way or another. You don’t get brexit you still get screwed. What you’re literally arguing about is how much shafting you’re willing to take is better than the amount of shafting someone with a different view would get if their belief were to be realised. It is simply madness and totally laughable. The fact you are taking it all so seriously and getting so angry about it shows how little you understand about the current situation

What I said applies to all of the snarky replies you give re: all those topics. And the bigger picture of people who share the same viewpoints and can't see anything valid with the other side. That's irrational.


Wholeheartedly agree that the state of politics here in NI is a disaster, well, Maggie let terrorists go free and into our localised government, so, in keeping with my point there's me being able to say that I disagree with something she did despite all-in-all liking her ;-). But, agian, I can accept that the whole "peace" thing did more good than bad taking the whole picture into account.

I'm not attacking anyone, certainly not any more than can be said about you. I'm saying that if you can't see that every perpsective / group / person we're arguing abotu has redeeming qualities, even the side you dislike, then you yourself are being irrational / not exactly being realistic in your points. So when you point the finger at me saying I don't understand etc., I think that's a little hypocritical.


You're doing it again with Trump, on that, they're literally yet to present any evidence of anything he has done that can send him to jail. They'll keep shooting that basketball until they get it in the hoop, but I'm yet to see an attmept that'll look like it'll work. Funny, people who dislike Trump dismiss the Hillary allogations of corruption... Now, whether you hate Trump or not, there's still a lot of good he's doing for the US, its economy and people that probably make zero difference to us - as well as - the idiotic tweets etc and criticism worthy parts of his actions, which again, I don't deny exist. I'd love to see you actually admit that in reality, the likes of the EU and Corbyn for examples, have their flaws and their problems.


The system is always going to let down someone somewhere who doesn't like what it's doing. That's also just part of life. But I don't think 'we're all screwed' really. I mean, lets say Labour did get in, here's how I'd look at it: I don't like the result, but if that's what people are voting for then I'll accept it and try to see the good. After all, it'll benefit me somewhere, somehow, even though I doubt it'll be the particular things I see as a priority. -- Are you able to maturely accept that, even though you don't like Boris / Conservatives, that since they've been in power, their running of the country and decisions have in fact benefitted you? Becuase whether you know it or not, it has! Granted you don't have to 'love' them to admit that, but to pretend every single intention, action and idea they stand for is inherently bad, again, I would say is a huge irrationality on your end.


Try to see things for what they are. Good and bad. Even though I'm pro-Brexit, like the Conservatives and don't have an issue with Trump, all of those things have their issues and should be criticised. You should understand that the EU, Corbyn and whoever you'd prefer instead of Trump also do too, just as much in some areas. That's the fair but sometimes inconvenience of the world we live in. Not too hard to understand.


The short version: quit pretending everyone who you don't support is just scum and that anyone who thinks different must be an idiot, because in reality, they just think differently and have different priorities to you.. Whoever wins, someone will get "shafted" to some extent.


So, my question to you, can you think of anything positive about Conservatives / Boris / Trump / Brexit? Any benefits at all? I could list you a couple of things that I think are good about Labour / The EU despite holding the view we're still better off without them both! Because if I sit here and genuinely criticise them and pretend they're without merit, then I'm the fool. If you genuinely can't see what I'm getting at, then I fear you might be too..


Also, there is no anger or taking it seriously on my end, please read it as such.
 
Corbyn is a terrorist sympathiser and campaigns in support of other similar groups of terrorists who are very much anti-UK so even if he has some some remarkably good things and claims he will, he's a no-go to me and many others in NI.



Maggie let terrorists go free and into our localised government, so, in keeping with my point there's me being able to say that I disagree with something she did despite all-in-all liking her ;-).

See I don’t have to argue with you, I genuinely don’t have to care, with your debating abilities all I have to do is wait two posts till you completely contradict yourself.

Another favorite of mine

So when you point the finger at me saying I don't understand etc., I think that's a little hypocritical.


You're doing it again with Trump, on that, they're literally yet to present any evidence of anything he has done that can send him to jail.

You may think it a little hypocritical but yet you’ve literally just pointed out that you don’t know how impeachment works, it has nothing to do with sending him to jail.

I would argue that if someone is right about something or I agree with them I don’t need to constantly post my agreement, if someone is wrong or I don’t agree, sometimes but not all times, I will say something. It’s just that you tend to fall in to the latter group more often than the former.
 
Back to the topic... Am really grumpy now, shut my finger in the car door tonight like a fool, really hurt, not at all prepared for that! At least it is a timely reminder that good humour and stability in your life are the most important things.. They get you through the bad moments. DSC_1272.JPG
 
Back to the topic... Am really grumpy now, shut my finger in the car door tonight like a fool, really hurt, not at all prepared for that! At least it is a timely reminder that good humour and stability in your life are the most important things.. They get you through the bad moments. View attachment 204741

Well, just to turn it around, I was quite grumpy about the bloody traffic tonight. Started my journey on a high having signed a very good deal with a really nice family business... but it took me 4 hours to drive 150 miles home.

Anyway, your post reminded me of one of my favourite novelty bands.

[ame="https://youtu.be/xilOgjeEwPg"]https://youtu.be/xilOgjeEwPg[/ame]
 
Back to the topic... Am really grumpy now, shut my finger in the car door tonight like a fool, really hurt, not at all prepared for that! At least it is a timely reminder that good humour and stability in your life are the most important things.. They get you through the bad moments. View attachment 204741

Absolutely.

Politics should not be discussed in these forums unless the politics is specifically relevant to Fiats or the Italian vehicle industry in THIS country.
 
See I don’t have to argue with you, I genuinely don’t have to care, with your debating abilities all I have to do is wait two posts till you completely contradict yourself.



Another favorite of mine







You may think it a little hypocritical but yet you’ve literally just pointed out that you don’t know how impeachment works, it has nothing to do with sending him to jail.



I would argue that if someone is right about something or I agree with them I don’t need to constantly post my agreement, if someone is wrong or I don’t agree, sometimes but not all times, I will say something. It’s just that you tend to fall in to the latter group more often than the former.



Hey, you read my last post. You’ll figure it out. At some point. Statistically speaking ;-)
 
Two points -

The British Empire had it's place and it's time. It is now long gone. Sadly in some respects and thank goodness in others. Kenyatta said the worst thing to happen to Africa was the loss of the European Empires. The law and order they brought was worth more than the costs of having them.

In 1919 Britain kept the Five Counties of Northern Ireland to protect its sea lanes into strategic ports and to keep the important ship yards under UK control. All that has become irrelevant begging many questions.

The setting up of Israel as a state in it's own right was strongly opposed by UK. They were told by UN (actually USA) to let it happen. The Labour government backed off and Israel was born. The current Labour Party line on Israel is duplicitous as it was their ancestors who failed to sort it out back in 1947.
 
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Indeed, but way back in Britains past does come up & bite our bum at times. Even I was taught more or less back in the 60's that Britain was a white supreme race in a roundabout way.

Primary school '61 onwards in the classroom was of course the big blackboard & to the right of it was a large map of the world with the Empire countries in salmon pink. Under the map was pictures of the white man first of all & then all the coloured races, with the message more or less we are better than you & we will educate you & poke our noses into your affairs.

This was the "norm" for us youngsters right through our primary school education, to be honest we were very young & naive & did not know any better, it's only when you look back as an adult, you see things for what they are. Get them young & you can do anything with minds.
 
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