What's made you grumpy today?

[puntofan01]

I'm all for progress, but I just don't see the point of buying a modern car. My car is 10: it's still brilliant. My parents cars are 9 and 12 respectively: still brilliant. My closest friends 7 year old Leon: still good. My other closest friends 12 year old Brera: subframe aside, still good.

 

[StevenRB45]

I'm not anti-modern or anti-infotainment necessarily. But for me there's a few things that just cheapen the way they day it's done now.

First the engines, I know that is the way it is, because of emissions standards and they are just as powerful if not more than the old ones but, there has never been a truly luxurious 3-4 cylinder engine (possibly excepting hybrids). It is the engine choice of the daily biffabout not something that is meant to be a nice car. They don't make a nice noise, they aren't particularly smooth, just ordinary...twice as bad if it's the sales rep special diesel engine.

Then there's the looks, the basic ones are styled to look so tragic that no one could spec one with a straight face, but if you go near the options packs you come out with a 2.0d that looks like a 5 year olds idea of a race car..but still most definitely is a 2.0d.

It didn't cross my mind that much until a very brave soul started using an E30 M3 (yes 4 cylinder but actual race car) on his commute this summer which coincides with my commute. Seeing that car in a modern real world environment among the 116ds and Qashqais just hammered it home. Sitting in a queue M3 on one side, M-sport diesel on the other..it's very clear that not just in literal terms the only thing those cars share is a bonnet badge.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I'm all for progress, but I just don't see the point of buying a modern car.

In terms of progress the car hasn't changed all that much in 50 years.

The engine sits under the bonnet, suspension systems and brakes follow the same basic designs as they did in the 60's

For many years 30+ you've been able to have electric windows, cruise control, climate control and so on, I had a 1993 mondeo which Had full leather interior and all the trimmings.

The only two real differences are the engine technology, and the infotainment system.

Theses days cars are expected to be ultra fuel efficient and low polluting, and for this reason a modern car will far exceed the abilities of an older model in terms of fuel use and pollution.

In terms of the infotainment system, well what people want has moved on a lot, everyone wants bluetooth for music and calls handling. They also might want satnav, again these are really the only differences between a new car and a 30 year old car.

So yeah if you don't want satnav built in, bluetooth or a super fuel efficient engine that pollutes less then no buying a newer car doesn't make a lot of different.

I've just been down to the fiat dealer to pick up some bits I ordered an had a look at a new punto brochure and I note that the fuel economy figures and CO2 are really not that dissimilar to fiat punto's from 15 years ago.

So in all honesty they've not moved on a lot other than some bluetooth.

The main reason people update their cars is either a want of a newer model or because their old car is wearing out.
your 10 year old punto, regardless of mileage has seen 10 winters on UK roads and 10 Summers in UK heat. that still takes it toll on parts which will eventually need replacing.

 

[portland_bill]

...

I've just been down to the fiat dealer to pick up some bits I ordered an had a look at a new punto brochure and I note that the fuel economy figures and CO2 are really not that dissimilar to fiat punto's from 15 years ago.

This surprised me. I understood that Punto was discontinued a short while ago, so just checked Fiat UK website. No Punto.

Has your Fiat dealer still got some unsold? Or just not realised that they can't get them any more? Perhaps they don't get asked, so haven't realised they've not got any left.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

This surprised me. I understood that Punto was discontinued a short while ago, so just checked Fiat UK website. No Punto.

Has your Fiat dealer still got some unsold? Or just not realised that they can't get them any more? Perhaps they don't get asked, so haven't realised they've not got any left.

That’s interesting, I acttually took a brochure, so have it on my desk in the study, and they had a “brand new” punto “order today for your 18plate” in the showroom.

It was until very recently still on the UK site, and I’m talking a couple of weeks, as I had a look on there just after I got my Evo to see what the prices of the new ones were.

It does now however seem they have finally killed it off, maybe the dealers are being pushed to get rid of group stock hence the brochure and the car in the showroom.

The showroom car did look bloody boring, white with black (no pattern) interior, grey wheels, grande (bulb) tail lights rather than the LED units other puntos and evos got. Nothing on it at all stood out, the problem is they’ve really bumped the punto price up in recent years, it’s no wonder given the car I saw today, they’ve stopped selling them.

 

[puntofan01]

The only two real differences are the engine technology, and the infotainment system.

Theses days cars are expected to be ultra fuel efficient and low polluting, and for this reason a modern car will far exceed the abilities of an older model in terms of fuel use and pollution.

In terms of the infotainment system, well what people want has moved on a lot, everyone wants bluetooth for music and calls handling. They also might want satnav, again these are really the only differences between a new car and a 30 year old car.

So yeah if you don't want satnav built in, bluetooth or a super fuel efficient engine that pollutes less then no buying a newer car doesn't make a lot of different.

I've just been down to the fiat dealer to pick up some bits I ordered an had a look at a new punto brochure and I note that the fuel economy figures and CO2 are really not that dissimilar to fiat punto's from 15 years ago.

So in all honesty they've not moved on a lot other than some bluetooth.

The main reason people update their cars is either a want of a newer model or because their old car is wearing out.
your 10 year old punto, regardless of mileage has seen 10 winters on UK roads and 10 Summers in UK heat. that still takes it toll on parts which will eventually need replacing.

The economy and emissions figures achieved in official tests and those you get in the real world are 2 very different things these days. I get the impression that the economy you actually get from a brand new car is little more than from 1 10-15 years old. It's also no secret that manufacturers cheat on the compliance tests, so once again, barely any different to that older car.

With regards to infotainment, satnav is fair enough, but i.m.p.o, I think people need to concentrate more on their driving than worrying about being able to reply to text messages or using Spotify in the car. I do have Bluetooth in my car, and my phone is paired to it, but I only use it in emergencies. I also enjoy my music in the car, but I generally either leave it to its own devices, or listen to a specific band, so as to avoid distraction.

Obviously, an older car will occasionally need bits replaced, but all while it's still reliable, there's no point getting rid for a brand new car. After all, the whole point of a car is to be a means of transport, which an older car will do every bit as well as a needlessly complex 2018 model...

 

[PuntoHowTo]

With regards to infotainment, satnav is fair enough, but i.m.p.o, I think people need to concentrate more on their driving than worrying about being able to reply to text messages or using Spotify in the car.

I come from that middle generation where we had mobile phones (and no laws preventing their use while driving) and no satnavs, this meant Driving across country, reading a map book and talking on the phone to get directions, in my case usually while smoking a cigarette..... They where very bad times as far as distractions go, so someone using an in car app to access spotify is small nothing i'd sweat about.

 

[puntofan01]

I'll have to take your word for that.

 

[g8rpi]

I come from that middle generation where we had mobile phones (and no laws preventing their use while driving) and no satnavs, this meant Driving across country, reading a map book and talking on the phone to get directions, in my case usually while smoking a cigarette..... They where very bad times as far as distractions go, so someone using an in car app to access spotify is small nothing i'd sweat about.

Actually there were always rules and laws that applied to using mobile phones when driving, they just weren't specific to cell phones or "hand held devices" Mobile information systems are much more engaging and thus distracting than a dumb mobile phone map or radio. The newest systems are pushing the boundaries of what is legally acceptable. No doubt the ambulance chasers will get on to it.


Robert G8RPI

 

[Noxide]

My car came back from the repairers after that numpty hit it.

Aaaaaaand... drumroll please.

The work was shoddy and I'm ****** off about it!

They've literally painted over the decal that's on it? There's brush marks, a dent in the paint, there's buffing marks/rips on the stripe, there's still weird dents, etc. and they've painted my door too when the fender was the only bit that needed doing. Bonus points for effort I suppose.

Before anyone gripes - I know they can end up doing this work on a shoestring budget and appreciate this, but that's no excuse for shoddy work that I'm going to have to argue to get fixed & they could've paid to just do it right the first time.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Actually there were always rules and laws that applied to using mobile phones when driving, they just weren't specific to cell phones or "hand held devices"

That is a slight contradiction. 'there were always rules and laws that applied to using mobile phone while driving they just weren't relating to mobile phones' is basically what you've said.

This is a snippet from a 2003 news article when before the ban came in.

"Under current laws motorists can only be prosecuted for using mobiles if they fail to keep proper control of their vehicle - there is no actual law specifically prohibiting the use of mobiles while driving."

Back then driving a car while chatting on your phone with your phone held to your head was no more illegal than driving while playing table tennis is now, there are no specific rule governing the playing of table tennis while driving, and you are free to do so as long as you can maintain control of your vehicle. Which lets face it, is unlikely if you're playing table tennis, while driving; however its up the police to prove otherwise.

I covered many miles perfectly legally with my phone proper between my head and my shoulder (phones were fatter then) without event, that said I would never do this now and would not condone anyone else doing so, its just how things were back then.

 

[StevenRB45]

My car came back from the repairers after that numpty hit it.

Aaaaaaand... drumroll please.

The work was shoddy and I'm ****** off about it!

They've literally painted over the decal that's on it? There's brush marks, a dent in the paint, there's buffing marks/rips on the stripe, there's still weird dents, etc. and they've painted my door too when the fender was the only bit that needed doing. Bonus points for effort I suppose.

Before anyone gripes - I know they can end up doing this work on a shoestring budget and appreciate this, but that's no excuse for shoddy work that I'm going to have to argue to get fixed & they could've paid to just do it right the first time.

Gutted, make sure you document it with photos e.t.c. so there can be no doubt what you have asked them to fix.

If it's the other sides company then there's no reason it shouldn't be right..it's not like you're paying for a cheap job. They should be paying to put your car back to pre accident condition.

To be fair stuff like this is why my Hail damage never got me repaired. I've seen terrible jobs on easy to repair stuff..how much did I trust them to remove all the windows and headlining, rod the bigger dents out of it..skim and fill the rest and bonnet. Then refit the windows and paint it all to match the the rest..

The chances of the car surviving that without leaks and mismatched panels..zip.

 

[portland_bill]

Back then driving a car while chatting on your phone with your phone held to your head was no more illegal than driving while playing table tennis is now, there are no specific rule governing the playing of table tennis while driving, and you are free to do so as long as you can maintain control of your vehicle. Which lets face it, is unlikely if you're playing table tennis, while driving; however its up the police to prove otherwise.

What a lovely thought. Always enjoyed table tennis, still have the bat somewhere.
Got me thinking about an old hearse, and a small table in the back. Bring on the autopilot!

 

[Steve145]

Discovered after a bit of digging that under the new 'online only' French vehicle registration system, you can no longer buy/sell a car without a new 'Controle Technique' (MOT) and insurance.

This closes the loophole that existed whereby you could buy a car that wasn't roadworthy, spend months or years restoring it, then pass the CT under the old owner's details (legally, you'd have to trailer it to the test) and register it in your name once you had the pass certificate in hand.

I accept that there is a need to cut down on the number of uninsured, untested cars on the roads, but this doesn't resolve that problem, as those drivers would never register the cars in their names anyway (so the previous owner gets all the speeding fines, parking tickets...).

Rather, it's a stealthy way to get rid of older cars in daily/regular use, by making it financially unviable to sell an old car worth only a few hundred euros when you have to eat an 80 euro CT bill as part of the sale (it doesn't have to pass).

'True classics' are safe(ish), as they can claim that the paperwork has been lost (e.g. barnfind) and obtain a new identity, ableit with restrictions such as not being able to be used for commuting, but this is going to kill off a lot of cars in the 20-30 year age bracket, goodbye Pandas, Mk1 Puntos, Unos etc.

As for people trying to run two or three cars on a tight budget, well this is really going to hurt.

 

[StevenRB45]

Currently sitting watching "Real housewives of some American armpit".

If your significant other has never foisted this utter **** upon you hold them close and never let them go...Like Towie with less class.

 

[Eklipze3k]

Currently sitting watching "Real housewives of some American armpit".

If your significant other has never foisted this utter **** upon you hold them close and never let them go...Like Towie with less class.

My wife watches things like Arrow, Flash and Firefly. I'm good

 

[puntofan01]

Like Towie with less class.

Is that humanly possible?!?!?!?!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Currently sitting watching "Real housewives of some American armpit".

If your significant other has never foisted this utter **** upon you hold them close and never let them go...Like Towie with less class.

My mother watches it, worse still she goes on Facebook and follows (and often comments) on all the facebook pages of the people who are on the program.

My wife watches things like Arrow, Flash and Firefly. I'm good

So does mine, however, she also watches seemingly every single other box set ever to hit American TV screens and many of them are totally terrible.

Is that humanly possible?!?!?!?!

yes, Real housewives put all other reality TV to shame, it sets the base level by which all other programs are measured.

 

[StevenRB45]

if you haven't experienced it...don't it's really not worth your time.

But if you want an idea what its like..imagine "the do you park in gear" thread..but rather than on the internet it's taking place in a hired mini bus and being filmed..it then moves to a gala evening before moving on to a Hawaiian villa...but the topic still hasn't changed..once the conversation dies down..there's another show where all the participants relive the bitchyist moments from the argument..

Repeat..ad infinitum.

Also everyone has to get more and more high pitched until someone reaches as high as they can go and starts crying.

Oh and everyone must shout over each other...always.

 

[puntofan01]

I'm lucky: my gf watches none of those things. Instead, she enjoys things like 007 films!