General what would be the better car?
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General what would be the better car?
I'm not a big fan of 6 speed gear boxes, you seem to spend most of your time stirring cogs.
The 5 speed you spend a lot less time changing gears.
That said a car like a TA has a narrow power band so benefits from having an extra gear.
You'd probably find on the TA. 6 speed would be much more manageable
The 5 speed you spend a lot less time changing gears.
That said a car like a TA has a narrow power band so benefits from having an extra gear.
You'd probably find on the TA. 6 speed would be much more manageable
MarginWalker
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I quite like the 6-speed box in my 1.4 Sport. In 6th it's like an overdrive and makes for a pretty quiet and relaxing cruise on motorways. Lots of cog stirring required in the 40-60 mph range though. It's quite a nice short throw gear change and I enjoy going up and down the gears. One downside of the 6-speed manual box is the laughably large turning circle it gives the car. The need to do multi-point maneouvres in tight spaces in such a tiny car looks ridiculous and makes me look like a f##ktard!
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ahmett
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it isn't. I have the 5 speed dualogic and the turning circle is the same.
Piccolo Nero e Bella
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Perhaps not. The figures in the user manual suggest it's dependent on the engine, with the TA and 1200 having a 9.3m circle and the 1400 a full 1.5m more. Ahmett's 1400 DL is apparently 10.8m while our 1200 DL is 9.3m.
Maybe for the DL, but assuming its a similar setup to the Panda then the 6-speed manual will have a much wider turning circle normally.
AGH1965
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The 6th gear of the TA105 isn't an overdrive though. The TA105 needs in 6th gear more rpm to drive a certain speed than a TA85 in 5th gear!
AGH1965
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@yostumpy: Why this hypothetical question? You can't get a TA105 with a 5-speed gearbox, at least not in a 500.
The 6-speed gearbox of the TA105 is just a selling point, something to attract potential customers with. Some people simply think that more means better. The number of gears doesn't need to be useful at all. The 9-speed automatic gearbox of the 500X shows that. Even if you drive 150 km/h (≈ 94 mph) the 500X won't shift up to 9th gear. If you force it manually into 9th gear at that speed, then you get a message from the gear shift indicator that you should shift down. That demonstrates that the 9-speed gearbox it's just a gimmick meant to attract potential customers.
The 6-speed gearbox of the TA105 is just a selling point, something to attract potential customers with. Some people simply think that more means better. The number of gears doesn't need to be useful at all. The 9-speed automatic gearbox of the 500X shows that. Even if you drive 150 km/h (≈ 94 mph) the 500X won't shift up to 9th gear. If you force it manually into 9th gear at that speed, then you get a message from the gear shift indicator that you should shift down. That demonstrates that the 9-speed gearbox it's just a gimmick meant to attract potential customers.
Generally speaking no matter if a car has 5 or 6 fears that top gear is usually about the same ratio so quite right it's not an overdrive as someone suggested further up.
Quite often the reason for more gears is a narrow power band that means you need more gears to be on the power more of the time.
9 speed autos are a bit of a joke basically they are a cvt box that can be programmed to have as many gears as you want, they don't have 9 physical different gears.
AGH1965
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As far as I know the 500X has the ZF 9HP gearbox, which isn't a CVT.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/9CA5C8A1DDA9440FCA257E040023160E
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_9HP_transmission
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Purely out of interest, why does the extra cog increase the turning circle?
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I see!
No , but doubtless you can get the 85TA chipped, or power tuned etc, so I wondered how they would compare.
I was looking at the Nissan nv200, with the renault dci 1500 deisel, in 85bhp with a 5 speed box, the mpg was marginally better than the 105 bhp ''tuned'' version, with a 6 speed box. My thinking was, that although more power, its overgeared, so you travelled faster, but push more air out the way, therefore loose. BUT a 105bhp 5 speed, would (should) have better mpg than the 85 bhp, as you wouldn't necessarily go faster, BUT have more power when loaded and on hills.
I'm pretty sure Audi were the only European manufacturer to persist with cvt but they've given up and now only use twin clutch or 8/9 speed torque converter auto boxes.
With respect to 5 vs. 6 speed there is an element of more is better in marketing terms but in the case of the 105TA there is a valid reason. It allows you to keep the rev's in the "sweet spot" as there is no difference in the top ratio. Fiat should be commended for this but I doubt that the majority of drivers will notice or make use of the advantage.
Without seeing the power/torque curves I'm not sure but that's my perception.
It needs the close ratio box to assist with drivability and to get the most from the engine.
In theory if you used the advantage of the close ratio gearbox the 105 could be more economical in real life usage.
Afaik 6th in the 105 is the same or very close to 5th in the 85 ratio wise. The 6 speeds spreads the gearing ensuring you are more likely to be in the power band at any one time and probably minimising the effects of lag. That's my take on it anyway.
