I'm thinking about regassing my aircon but all i'm seeing on Amazon are "R1234YF compatible" kits, like the one below. What exactly are these? Whats going on?
What is an aircon "compatible" gas?
- Thread starter AnthonyH
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What is an aircon "compatible" gas?
Because one will be r1234yf and others will be r134a
Those canisters usually contain some oil and some dye so it’s not just gas, and it’s telling you which system it’s compatible with.
Open the bonnet and look for the sticker telling you what gas it uses and usually the weight of a full charge in grams.
Those canisters usually contain some oil and some dye so it’s not just gas, and it’s telling you which system it’s compatible with.
Open the bonnet and look for the sticker telling you what gas it uses and usually the weight of a full charge in grams.
Stick to what the label on the car says, and/or the workshop manual from the factory. Don't even listen to the dealer - half of them just use what's within reach and sold locally. Don't bother with Kwik-fit and other chains also offering to do it.
Dealer (or DIY if you have the kit) and if the dealer can't tell you the answer in terms of correct kind, or doesn't sound like they do it often, ring the next dealer down... Take no chances and be sure it's a company big enough to have someone else to complain / investigate if any issues follow the job.
Most people don't bother with A/C refreshes and it seems to be one of those things that can sometimes be thought to cause issues because it was interfered with (like gearbox fluids and changing oil grades..). I'd not trust any 'compatible' stuff, only clearly labelled exactly-what-the-manufacturer says stuff only.
Dealer (or DIY if you have the kit) and if the dealer can't tell you the answer in terms of correct kind, or doesn't sound like they do it often, ring the next dealer down... Take no chances and be sure it's a company big enough to have someone else to complain / investigate if any issues follow the job.
Most people don't bother with A/C refreshes and it seems to be one of those things that can sometimes be thought to cause issues because it was interfered with (like gearbox fluids and changing oil grades..). I'd not trust any 'compatible' stuff, only clearly labelled exactly-what-the-manufacturer says stuff only.
OP
OP
You both seem to be saying different things. Andy saying its R1234yf with some helpful extra oils. SB1500 that compatible might not be R1234yf, but another gas.
I had a look under the bonnet and there were no stickers/info of relevance, however on the silvery metal pipe there is what i believe to be the Aircon "Low" valve. There was no sign of how much gas to put in there, but i'll have another look.
I had a routine nurse check up recently and it was so nice to be in an air conditioned room - i thought i must get my car(s) done! Even if summer is over half way.
I will be doing this job myself, i don't see the need to use a garage, it looks fairly straighforward...
I had a look under the bonnet and there were no stickers/info of relevance, however on the silvery metal pipe there is what i believe to be the Aircon "Low" valve. There was no sign of how much gas to put in there, but i'll have another look.
I had a routine nurse check up recently and it was so nice to be in an air conditioned room - i thought i must get my car(s) done! Even if summer is over half way.
I will be doing this job myself, i don't see the need to use a garage, it looks fairly straighforward...
I'm saying just go with what the car itself / manufacturer says and take no chances basicallyYou both seem to be saying different things. Andy saying its R1234yf with some helpful extra oils. SB1500 that compatible might not be R1234yf, but another gas.
I had a look under the bonnet and there were no stickers/info of relevance, however on the silvery metal pipe there is what i believe to be the Aircon "Low" valve. There was no sign of how much gas to put in there, but i'll have another look.
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I had a routine nurse check up recently and it was so nice to be in an air conditioned room - i thought i must get my car(s) done! Even if summer is over half way.
I will be doing this job myself, i don't see the need to use a garage, it looks fairly straighforward...
OP
OP
I am of this mindset too.
If i could reliably know that the "R1234yf compatible" was actually R1234yf with extra oils i may take the risk. I'll dig around a bit more. And see if i can find some trusted brand name companies. What i'm seeing online don't look big brand name companies, that i know of anyway.
ZaphodB
Established member
What car is this ?
Regardless you need a set weight of refrigerant and a set amount of lube oil for a proper job .......
"Extra oils" sounds like bull to me, you need a set amount in your vehicle
Look your car up in: https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/m...ch-fuellmengen-pkw-&-nkw-210112-en-screen.pdf
Fiat's are on page 45 , 3rd column is refrigerant type, 4th is how much, 5th/6th is lube type, 7th is how much lube.
Regardless you need a set weight of refrigerant and a set amount of lube oil for a proper job .......
"Extra oils" sounds like bull to me, you need a set amount in your vehicle
Look your car up in: https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/m...ch-fuellmengen-pkw-&-nkw-210112-en-screen.pdf
Fiat's are on page 45 , 3rd column is refrigerant type, 4th is how much, 5th/6th is lube type, 7th is how much lube.
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Does the aircon work currently, even if it is weak are you getting cooler air out the vents ?
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Its a Fiat 500X, 1.6D. I took a look at the link and posted its picture below, its very handy, thanks.
I've seen lube advertised, but don't currently know much about it. I presume i buy that separate or is it in some kits?
The aircon is electronically sound, it blows but no cold air comes out of it. It whistles much like i've read that an aircon that needs regassing should.
When looking for aircon components in the engine bay I wondered if there had been something replaced, its hard to tell, but for a car that has been well looked after why wouldn't the previous owner have gotten it regassed? Unless they got it regassed and that failed? I'm not sure if it has a mechanical problem.
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It appears the sale of R1234YF to retail customers is banned in the UK. Only certified technicians and garages can legally buy it. This explains why all I can find on Amazon and eBay are "compatible" gases.
Mmmm. Thoughts?
Mmmm. Thoughts?
ZaphodB
Established member
Just pay a specialist aircon to evacuate , vacuum test and refill with the correct qty of ingredients..
It doesn't cost a fortune and will ensure the charge will stay in the system (and not leak out)
DIY is just a waste of time and money, you need to know the system is capable of holding the new charge, and also the correct amount of lube will ensure the various seals and other elements of the system are in tip top condition.
It's just not a DIY job imho ., pay a little bit more to be done by a professional and have it done right....
The availability of DIY kits doesn't mean it's a good idea, they just want to sell the(ir) product at the end of the day.
It's akin to the availability of aerosal spray paint....
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Just had my recent purchase Hyundai i10 done by my garage, as ac wasn't really 'cold' just a slightly colder than the non ac.
Garage did the whole lot there and then and allowed me to watch. First, evacuated the whole system. Then, pressure tested with a dye penetrant to see if there were any leaks, and to see if system held pressure. Purple dye was put in, and syatem pressurised and put up to pressure, (no refrigerant used at this stage) once required pressure was reached, system was allowed to sit, and pressure was monitored for leaks, and all joints watched for the purple dye which would show where they were. Small signs of dye at a couple of joints, and, pressure dropped slowly as the dye was pushed out of the joints.
Appears that 'o' rings had perished slightly, so were replaced, and retested. Once pressure was stable and no dye emerged from the joints, system was regassed with refirigerant and oil up to pressure. Then was tested for 20-30 minutes to see how it stood up. Now have a fully cold a/c with no leaks. Total cost, £75 all in, including testing, dye and refrigerant and oils and labour. For what it's worth, my i10 uses r123-A gas, not r-1234yl
For what it cost, peace of mind, and well worth the money. Certainly woudn't have been able to do the same job as well with a 'home kit' that's for sure.
2 weeks later, still ice cold (and with this weather, that's a BONUS!)
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Yours does sound an expert job, but for me it'd be more likely that the garage stuffed it up, overcharged me or put a crowbar onto something.Just had my recent purchase Hyundai i10 done by my garage, as ac wasn't really 'cold' just a slightly colder than the non ac.
Garage did the whole lot there and then and allowed me to watch. First, evacuated the whole system. Then, pressure tested with a dye penetrant to see if there were any leaks, and to see if system held pressure. Purple dye was put in, and syatem pressurised and put up to pressure, (no refrigerant used at this stage) once required pressure was reached, system was allowed to sit, and pressure was monitored for leaks, and all joints watched for the purple dye which would show where they were. Small signs of dye at a couple of joints, and, pressure dropped slowly as the dye was pushed out of the joints.
Appears that 'o' rings had perished slightly, so were replaced, and retested. Once pressure was stable and no dye emerged from the joints, system was regassed with refirigerant and oil up to pressure. Then was tested for 20-30 minutes to see how it stood up. Now have a fully cold a/c with no leaks. Total cost, £75 all in, including testing, dye and refrigerant and oils and labour. For what it's worth, my i10 uses r123-A gas, not r-1234yl
For what it cost, peace of mind, and well worth the money. Certainly woudn't have been able to do the same job as well with a 'home kit' that's for sure.
2 weeks later, still ice cold (and with this weather, that's a BONUS!)
I could take any of my 3 cars to the scrap yard tomorrow and not care in the slightest, so if my DIY goes wrong, it doesn't matter. There are a lot of cheap Fiats out there
I wish I had more room in the driveway, for more cars, Fiats obviously. I'd like a Panda really, but i'm waiting for the EVO to go to heaven
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ZaphodB
Established member
Yours does sound an expert job, but for me it'd be more likely that the garage stuffed it up, overcharged me or put a crowbar onto something.
I could take any of my 3 cars to the scrap yard tomorrow and not care in the slightest, so if my DIY goes wrong, it doesn't matter. There are a lot of cheap Fiats out there
I'm not being funny - and you can obviously do whatever you want , but I really don't understand the reasoning , as has been said a professional specialist can do a complete test and fit for £75 (not untypical pricing) , but you want to try this DIY kit for £69 which doesn't do even half the job, it won't test that you've got a gas-tight system and the oil content isn't specified at all ?!
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OP
If you re-read the first sentence of my last reply all will become clearI'm not being funny - and you can obviously do whatever you want , but I really don't understand the reasoning , as has been said a professional specialist can do a complete test and fit for £75 (not untypical pricing) , but you want to try this DIY kit for £69 which doesn't do even half the job, it won't test that you've got a gas-tight system and the oil content isn't specified at all ?!
ZaphodB
Established member
If you re-read the first sentence of my last reply all will become cler
I'm sorry it doesn't
the price difference between your original ama... link and HighJarsse's example pricing from a professional for a complete job is just £6I'll leave my thoughts and contribution on the idea there
As regulars on Dragon's den often say.....
OP
OP
No need to worry about it.I'm sorry it doesn't
I'll leave my thoughts and contribution on the idea there
As regulars on Dragon's den often say.....
The garage I use is a small independant family owned garage. Dan, Josh, and Dean are 'proper' mechanics, and, because I'm an engineer, (and a nosy old fart as well!!) and have a fair idea of what needs to be done, and the guy's know this. Dan believes in doing the job once, properly, and is willing to take any info onboard. He did let me see the process, as he thought it would show the complexity of the job. He also said that if done wrong, can result in the compressor packing up if incorrectly filled or tested, and that if there is a leak , and the refrigerant leaks out without you knowing, and you still run the ac, then this will do damage that can result in a complete new wvaporater and compressor. Having seen the complete system from start to finish, the £75 was certainly worth it, as, even as an engineer, with 50+ years of experience, the kit he used and the need for the highest understanding of the way it works, was an eye opener. No way could you replicate that with a home kit, for sure. Just getting the mix of oil/refrigerant etc, and the correct operating pressure for the cars system? No way!!
But, each to his own.
But, each to his own.
OP
OP
Building an understanding with a garage helps, it allows you to trust them, and makes the interaction go well. I used to do this, and baring the odd blip things were good. But since covid it seems almost impossible to find a good garage, not just a good garage, but a dentist or vet, probably other professions too. Oh well, I digress.
aircon likely needs a regas but if there is no cold air at all it need hooking up to a proper aircon recharge machine to do a full vacuum and leak test then put in the correct amount of gas oil and dye which you cannot do without the machine.
You also need a specific matching for r1234yf so you’ll need to go to a bigger workshop or specialist who has the right kit to work on the car.
Those refill kits can be quite expensive for what they are and you risk either running the system dry of oil, or the gas all leaking out in a few days and potentially throwing away £60-80
As you don’t know the history of the car the vac down is needed to evacuate any moisture out of the system, the hold once vacuumed will help boil off any liquid water to be vacced out.
Any moisture in the system can damage the compressor with its high tolerance steel parts, any rust internally is a death sentence for the compressor
