What could I buy that's more reliable than a 500?

[RussH]

A lot of these cars have oil condition sensors now and they tell you when they need a service.

I maybe wrong here but I don't think they actually sense the oil. The type of use is logged i.e. how many cold starts, amount of time in stop start traffic, cruising, full throttle etc.
The main point being to keep servicing costs as attractive as possible to fleet buyers and to be able to offer cheap servicing packages (read that as doing the least possible) to private buyers on PCP deals.
They're not too bothered about year 5 or over 100k miles.


Modern oil is good but personally I've always had oil changes at 10k max or every six months. I used to have a Saab Turbo, they suffered with horrendous oil sludging problems, no matter how good the oil was it looked like runny tar in the sump if it wasn't changed at 5k intervals in say a 5 or 6 year old car. Result complete engine failure or at best new turbo and a sump off clean of the internals. Pretty sure VAG and BMW have suffered with it as well.

 

[ahmett]

A lot of these cars have oil condition sensors now and they tell you when they need a service.

Our mini recently needed it's second service (30k miles) and we couldn't get it into the dealer straight away, would be a week or so, when I phoned the dealer, they stated as long as it was serviced in the next 10k miles the warrantee would still stand, some people might take that as 'it doesn't really need a service for another 10k and carry on driving.

A work colleague with a brand new polo suffered two turbo failures in the two years she had it, but she loved VWs and replaced it with a Passat, which suffered a catastrophic engine failure a week after she bought it and needed the bottom end rebuilding. She looks after her cars religiously as her hubby is a jaguar fanatic. Weather It's just bad luck or bad cars all makes and models have there failures as I've said before the place next door to my brothers business is a vag speciallist so all I ever see is broken VWs and Audis doesn't mean they are all crap or break down, I just happen to be in the place all the broken ones congregate
Two dead bmws do not represent the whole company. A 53 and a 57 is sufficiently old enough for those cars to have developed problems or be mistreated
Another thing I've learned about BMWs is they all seem to have spaceship miles on the clock

i was looking at buying a BMW with 86k miles on the clock, a 2012 model 116d! How on earth did he do 86,000 miles in 2 years!???

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I maybe wrong here but I don't think they actually sense the oil. The type of use is logged i.e. how many cold starts, amount of time in stop start traffic, cruising, full throttle etc.
The main point being to keep servicing costs as attractive as possible to fleet buyers and to be able to offer cheap servicing packages

It's a bit of both, software monitors the mileage so as not to go too far beyond the required service interval, but there is an 'oil condition sensor' in these cars to directly monitor the oil and flash up on the dash if a service is needed.
We and a close friend of ours both have a Mini Cooper D 2012 London, and both cars have needed servicing at different times. Our has gone longer between service interval which may be down to us doing longer runs in it.

As for offering cheap servicing well our car as it seems most of these models came with the mini/BMWs TLC package meaning all servicing costs were covered for the first 3 years this was something the original owners put on the car from new, the original owmers being BMW as they used it as a run around during the London Olympics (hence being a 2012 London)

i was looking at buying a BMW with 86k miles on the clock, a 2012 model 116d! How on earth did he do 86,000 miles in 2 years!???

No idea but this is a perfect example http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201412019359207?atmobcid=soc4

110,000 miles in a two year old car

And this X5 again only 2 year old and done 138,000 miles, bmws do seem to be mile crunchers
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201410278537676?atmobcid=soc4

 

[Melanabb]

In response to the original question...





Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[portland_bill]

I seem to remember that a long time ago when the JD Power survey results were published in Top Gear magazine, Fiat and Alfa always came last or near the bottom. But a good summary of the results would be like this.

"Keeps breaking down, more time at the dealer than driving. Would you buy another - YES!"

There is a lot of emotion involved with our cars. in many cases, enough to forgive them almost anything.

 

[306maxi]

It's a bit of both, software monitors the mileage so as not to go too far beyond the required service interval, but there is an 'oil condition sensor' in these cars to directly monitor the oil and flash up on the dash if a service is needed.
We and a close friend of ours both have a Mini Cooper D 2012 London, and both cars have needed servicing at different times. Our has gone longer between service interval which may be down to us doing longer runs in it.

As for offering cheap servicing well our car as it seems most of these models came with the mini/BMWs TLC package meaning all servicing costs were covered for the first 3 years this was something the original owners put on the car from new, the original owmers being BMW as they used it as a run around during the London Olympics (hence being a 2012 London)



No idea but this is a perfect example http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201412019359207?atmobcid=soc4

110,000 miles in a two year old car

And this X5 again only 2 year old and done 138,000 miles, bmws do seem to be mile crunchers
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201410278537676?atmobcid=soc4

I very strongly doubt that there is an oil condition sensor at all.....

 

[UFI]

Oil condition sensors do exist:

http://stauffusa.com/customer/stcorp/catalog/oqs.htm

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I very strongly doubt that there is an oil condition sensor at all.....

This is the part of the manual which states the use of sensor



And this is a bmw oil condition sensor like the one fitted to our mini

 

[scout]

i was looking at buying a BMW with 86k miles on the clock, a 2012 model 116d! How on earth did he do 86,000 miles in 2 years!???

I did 50000 miles in six months when I was a service engineer.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I did 50000 miles in six months when I was a service engineer.

Clocking them used motors again Bob

 

[Mick F]

100,000miles per year is 2,000miles a week.
Five day week means 400miles a day.

 

[scout]

100,000miles per year is 2,000miles a week.
Five day week means 400miles a day.

Never seemed to be out of the bl@@£y car

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

100,000miles per year is 2,000miles a week.
Five day week means 400miles a day.

Had a meal with a mate this evening, he's a traveling engineer, and was saying he'd done 380 miles today alone just for work, and that was without coming out for the meal this evening

 

[ahmett]

Had a meal with a mate this evening, he's a traveling engineer, and was saying he'd done 380 miles today alone just for work, and that was without coming out for the meal this evening

i guess they need the car cash then as i doubt finance agreements allow for that many miles a year = )

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

i guess they need the car cash then as i doubt finance agreements allow for that many miles a year = )

Not everyone has a car on finance

 

[RussH]

This is the part of the manual which states the use of sensor

View attachment 147013

And this is a bmw oil condition sensor like the one fitted to our mini

View attachment 147014

Well there you go, you learn something new everyday.

I still think all manufacturers push the envelope with oil change intervals though.

 

[stu0710]

I doubt if this answer is in the correct context to your original question but if you want the best quality go for a 1995 Mercedes-Benz E Class otherwise known as the W124 series. I bought one for £500 with 11months mot. The only thing wrong with it was that the abs light was on. That was a corroded fuse! The quality of these is maybe the pinnacle of car manufacturing. It felt like it go on for another 20years and they are known to go for 500k miles on the original engine. In fact I only bought it for the engine. I felt quite bad ripping it apart.

I have to agree with the above comments on this revolving around the service provided by the dealership though. That's where fiat seem to perform poorly compared to the German and Japanese manufacturers. It's mostly about perception rather than facts. Trawl around Audi and Mercedes-Benz forums if you want to be really scared.

My Father had a 1994 E300 (having previously owned other Mercs). It was the last one he bought - at 6 years old it had rust bubbling up on both front wings and the bottom of the doors, build quality was not great . The engines were OK but ancient and thirsty and the auto box was agricultural. You don't see many 90's Mercs arond now that aren't complete rust buckets.

 

[Squadrone Rosso]

In 2.5 years & 25k miles, my 500 has been back to the dealers a few times.

The most recent was the water leak (rear slam panel not sealed that well from the factory).

Prior to that it was a dicky map sensor in the hot weather (two goes to fix).

Prior to that was the climate control heater flaps. They went nuts and got replaced.

There was a recall too (coil packs & top suspension mount covers).

Dealer experience has been generally positive apart from obe that scratched the main dash panel whilst taking the radio out to fix the faulty vent from delivery....and tried to blame me for the damage.

Overall, have loved the car, will be sad to see it go but looking forward to the Panda Cross.

 

[jrkitching]

In 2.5 years & 25k miles, my 500 has been back to the dealers a few times.

The most recent was the water leak (rear slam panel not sealed that well from the factory).

Prior to that it was a dicky map sensor in the hot weather (two goes to fix).

Prior to that was the climate control heater flaps. They went nuts and got replaced.

There was a recall too (coil packs & top suspension mount covers).

Dealer experience has been generally positive apart from obe that scratched the main dash panel whilst taking the radio out to fix the faulty vent from delivery....and tried to blame me for the damage.

IMO that is an utterly abysmal new car ownership experience and I am amazed that you would contemplate owning a Fiat again after having to put up with that lot after only 2 1/2 yrs/25k.

In fairness my own two new Fiats have now a combined 9yrs/90k; the 500 needed a replacement second key on delivery (faulty immobiliser chip which should have been picked up by the dealer before I ever saw the car) and a breather hose after 3 1/2 yrs (which I fixed myself); the Panda, now on 55k, has been faultless .

I would not expect any new car purchased today to need to go to a dealer or service centre for anything beyond routine servicing / wear & tear items until at least its second MOT and any exception to this should be regarded by the manufacturer as a serious failure in Quality Control.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I would not expect any new car purchased today to need to go to a dealer or service centre for anything beyond routine servicing / wear & tear items until at least its second MOT and any exception to this should be regarded by the manufacturer as a serious failure in Quality Control.

But this is what a warranty is for. Vehicle are very complex these days, and I'd expect the odd potential issue on any new car, just like I would a new build house for example.

Its the nature of the issue and how its dealt with that matters imo.