What could I buy that's more reliable than a 500?

[scout]

I think the thing everyone is missing is the fact that most people don't buy a car with a purely practical head. If they did we would all be driving around in a car made by the manufacturer that made the most reliable vehicles. Everyone has prejudices and favourites of both manufacturers and dealers so any replies here are purely subjective. Personally I've had very good experiences with Vauxhall Honda and Fiat and very bad ones with Ford, Renault and BMW. Doesn't make them bad/good cars just means I'm more likely to find faults with some over others. My 500 is far from perfect but I overlook its shortcomings because of the way it makes me feel.

Easy example of prejudice from my own experience. My mother would not buy a Japanese car until very recently because of their involvement in WW2. She does now drive a Honda but it took a lot of persuading for this to occur (the Honda jazz filled her Need's perfectly so it seemed silly to not consider it because of something that happened a generation ago.)

 

[ahmett]

Not sure where to start with this one, yes many taxi drivers bought skodas. But, and its a big but, when you're doing 200k miles a year no car is really reliable and as such many of those skodas broke down, my brother till the end of 2013 was such a taxi driver and still has his 3billion mile Octavia, it ate cv joints and dual mass fly wheels clutches turbos fuel pumps etc you name it, it's had a new one. it was just a damn sight cheaper to buy than a Audi A8 or a 5 series Bmw of the same age.....

Now all the taxi drivers are switching to priuseseses because they are more reliable and a lot cheaper to run. Brother has stated if he was still driving he would run a Prius as many of his old colleagues now are





Same brother who was a taxi driver now has his own company building vw campers and is right next door to a VW Audi specialist (though they do all vag group cars) essentially they are all unreliable to one degree or another but, when they bring a new piece of technology to the market it tends to go on the audis first then the VW and then the skodas, so hitec top end audis see more break downs from the tech that the other cars have yet to get, by the time skoda get things the problems are ironed out and they are less likely to break



Seems you are putting more reliance on the badge than the car. BMWs break down too, buy a low end manual with none of the fancy gadgets and yes it probably is more reliable than most, but a top end M5 has a whole host of stuff to break and leave you sat on the side of the road




Typical of any car most have some sort of common problem, 90s fords used to eat lower suspension arms. My Range Rover had rust issues, my Saab had coil pack problems, no car is completely fault free.

I think the real issue isn't so much the reliability as how the dealerships deal with it and as amett pointed out earlier, fiat are crap at looking after customers.

Our mini dealer is fantastic couldn't do enough and is connected to the Bmw dealers (they share a building) so I would have no issue dealing with bwm

I know that MEP has commented about the wonderful service he received from Toyota. I'm not sure anyone can truly say they have had a faultless experience of fiat dealers

yeah thats what i am planning on getting, a BMW 116ED. Have rented it for a week, excellent car feels so much more stable than the Fiat and handles infinitely better with double the fuel economy of my 1.4 and the same acceleration potential. Oh and when i drove it i realised how much i hate front wheel drive making the car so heavy in the front!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Not the greatest car in the world but far better built than the Toyota or the BMW Mini for that matter.

Owning two fiats and a mini, and with a fiat main dealer in spiting distance, I can whole heartedly assure you, you are kidding yourself to think a 500 is better built than a mini, not even bringing reliability service running costs or anything else into it, side by side the mini is a world a part from the fiat (or indeed any fiat) in build quality.

Then take something like the JD power survey in which the 500 97th out of 109 cars compared to mini's 46th place (nestled between the Yaris and the Toyota verso) it's very hard to argue the 500 is in the same league as Mini or Toyota,

 

[Mick F]

Are we not comparing oranges and apples here?
Surely this is subjective and not absolute?

What is "reliability"?

reliable
adjective
consistently good in quality or performance; able to be trusted.

"Good" is in the eye of the beholder.
Mick.

 

[306maxi]

Owning two fiats and a mini, and with a fiat main dealer in spiting distance, I can whole heartedly assure you, you are kidding yourself to think a 500 is better built than a mini, not even bringing reliability service running costs or anything else into it, side by side the mini is a world a part from the fiat (or indeed any fiat) in build quality.

Then take something like the JD power survey in which the 500 97th out of 109 cars compared to mini's 46th place (nestled between the Yaris and the Toyota verso) it's very hard to argue the 500 is in the same league as Mini or Toyota,

JD power is a load of crap, they mark the 500 down for having a petrol cap that's hard to get into.

 

[RussH]

JD power is a load of crap, they mark the 500 down for having a petrol cap that's hard to get into.

Got to agree there, anything they say counts for zero in any of my buying decisions.

Just as well some of us have free will or we'd all be driving Kia's.

Perception, to some people, equals reality.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

JD power is a load of crap, they mark the 500 down for having a petrol cap that's hard to get into.

Your argument may well stand if the JD power's (a completely independent company that does more then just cars) survey wasn't comprised soley from owners experience and comments. So they mark it down on the comments made by owners, if that comment is "the petrol cap is hard to get into" then that's a mark against it, however it's marked on a lot more than the petrol cap so even taking that out of the equation it would probably still be lucky to score any better than 97th

And in the US JD Power Survey this year fiat came dead last, same car different market, but similar results, and the 500 is fairly consistent in other surveys

Got to agree there, anything they say counts for zero in any of my buying decisions.

Just as well some of us have free will or we'd all be driving Kia's.

Perception, to some people, equals reality.

Aside from the fact that the survey listed the VW UP not only as the best city car (the category the 500 sits in) it also got ranked as the number 1 car of the whole survey, Kia only scored 9th over all in the list of manufactures so I will take your comment as an attempt at being facetious.


Perception = reality
Your perception of pain maybe very different to mine however, pain is still pain however you perceive it

As one definition of reality is "The state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them."
I could argue your 'perception' of a fiat 500 falls into the latter category of "idealistic."

And even when bathed in the reality of a situation people still do things otherwise we wouldn't have extreme sports, or gambling
Kickboxing 'if you do this you will be kicked in the head' but it's fun
Fiat 500 'if you buy this, it will be unreliable and problematic' yeah but it looks cool and will be fun

 

[306maxi]

Errr no, different car. Plus the jd power survey here and there are different.

 

[rkt2003]

Well my last one was reliable let`s see how i get on with this one ,the thing is these days cars have so many different computer nodes ,new electrics,sensors for everything ,every single manufacturer out there will have some issues ,whether the owners report these things to surveys is another thing ,not everyone thinks about posting to surveys on vehicles reliabilities .

 

[brynrosa]

Cobblers, I am speaking from my experience with these car makers, and the 500 has been better than both the Mini and Toyota. It is not only the reliability but the way a dealer copes with any problems. I have bought both my 500`s from the 500 Centre in South Wirral ... fine ... and when I took the latest one in for a minor recall I went to Threeways at Abergele, the main dealer. They were efficient and 100% courteous, not so Toyota who were uncaring and dismissive. In my humble opinion they now are believing the hype about their cars, really most cars are now made to similar tolerances and share many components. Perhaps you`d like to "have a pop" at my `68 Morris Minor too whilst you`re at it? Nor built well but million times more fun than a modern.

 

[UFI]

For those with short memories, the 500 came first in class in the 2011 German JD Power survey.

 

[Mick F]

We used to own - from brand new - a Talbot Horizon.
Excellent car, and we had her for four years 50,000miles. No problems as far as I can remember, and never had a defect to go back to the dealer.

Car of the Year in 1979.

TTFN
Mick.

 

[wellfan]

Cobblers, I am speaking from my experience with these car makers, and the 500 has been better than both the Mini and Toyota. It is not only the reliability but the way a dealer copes with any problems. I have bought both my 500`s from the 500 Centre in South Wirral ... fine ... and when I took the latest one in for a minor recall I went to Threeways at Abergele, the main dealer. They were efficient and 100% courteous, not so Toyota who were uncaring and dismissive. In my humble opinion they now are believing the hype about their cars, really most cars are now made to similar tolerances and share many components. Perhaps you`d like to "have a pop" at my `68 Morris Minor too whilst you`re at it? Nor built well but million times more fun than a modern.

Your Fiat ownership experience is unique to you. My experience is very different, and unique to me. Last three Fiat cars purchased from new have been crap, as has been the dealer experience, absolutely dire.
Not sure what we gain by saying mine is fine, so they are all fine, or mine is crap, so they are all crap.
Independent car surveys at least bring some sort of objectivity, rather than all our subjective experiences.
Not sure why I made this post as I'll probably now get some grief.

 

[Vitesse]

We have a Mini and a Fiat. Mini is much more solidly built and better finish all around. My impression of the dealerships, we use Thames Fiat and Coopers Mini TBH they are not that much different. Coopers come and pick up the car when it needs a service and deliver it back, hand washed and hoovered out. When the 500 is serviced they wash it and greet you at the door. Price wise they are pretty comparable.

The Mini cost double the price of the 500, so I guess it is an unfair comparison. We needed a car that was cheaper to run for short trips to work, popping down the shops etc. The Mini drinks petrol in comparison to the Fiat. We could have bought another Mini with a smaller engine as a runabout but we would have had to shell out a lot more money. Also I am a bit biased as I also have a Classic 500.

Reliability wise neither have had to return to the dealers.

It's unfortunate that Fiat dealerships do have a poor reputation but some dealerships are working very hard to improve this, others less so. I did pop into one that was a lot closer to us than the one I normally use and they were really poor.

 

[ahmett]

We have a Mini and a Fiat. Mini is much more solidly built and better finish all around. My impression of the dealerships, we use Thames Fiat and Coopers Mini TBH they are not that much different. Coopers come and pick up the car when it needs a service and deliver it back, hand washed and hoovered out. When the 500 is serviced they wash it and greet you at the door. Price wise they are pretty comparable.



The Mini cost double the price of the 500, so I guess it is an unfair comparison. We needed a car that was cheaper to run for short trips to work, popping down the shops etc. The Mini drinks petrol in comparison to the Fiat. We could have bought another Mini with a smaller engine as a runabout but we would have had to shell out a lot more money. Also I am a bit biased as I also have a Classic 500.



Reliability wise neither have had to return to the dealers.



It's unfortunate that Fiat dealerships do have a poor reputation but some dealerships are working very hard to improve this, others less so. I did pop into one that was a lot closer to us than the one I normally use and they were really poor.

That's what I mean. The fiat simply does not feel solidly built compared to bmw

 

[GrandeGuy]

German cars are ok.
VAG is better quality build than BMW now,
I saw a 57 reg and a 53 reg 3 series pouring blue smoke out, also the common mini diesel problem the exhaust gasket to DPF leaks, it just does, there is no fix and no gasket, to official dealer fix is "wash under the bonnet to remove spot" that's it. . . No word of a lie!
Also BMW are suffering big turbo failures, this is all related IMO to OEM service intervals, they are far too stretched and are causing oil systems to block up!
[ame]http://youtu.be/vb7ErukD0Hc[/ame]

 

[RussH]

German cars are ok.
VAG is better quality build than BMW now,
I saw a 57 reg and a 53 reg 3 series pouring blue smoke out, also the common mini diesel problem the exhaust gasket to DPF leaks, it just does, there is no fix and no gasket, to official dealer fix is "wash under the bonnet to remove spot" that's it. . . No word of a lie!
Also BMW are suffering big turbo failures, this is all related IMO to OEM service intervals, they are far too stretched and are causing oil systems to block up!
http://youtu.be/vb7ErukD0Hc

I've seen and heard very similar experiences. The difference being they will make you feel good.
A friend did manage to reject an X5. He replaced it with an X6. Go figure

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

It is not only the reliability but the way a dealer copes with any problems.

Seems you've just been very unlucky with your Toyota dealer, that aside out of interest what model did you have and what was the breakdown / its cause

 

[PuntoHowTo]

German cars are ok.
VAG is better quality build than BMW now,
I saw a 57 reg and a 53 reg 3 series pouring blue smoke out, also the common mini diesel problem the exhaust gasket to DPF leaks, it just does, there is no fix and no gasket, to official dealer fix is "wash under the bonnet to remove spot" that's it. . . No word of a lie!
Also BMW are suffering big turbo failures, this is all related IMO to OEM service intervals, they are far too stretched and are causing oil systems to block up!
http://youtu.be/vb7ErukD0Hc

A lot of these cars have oil condition sensors now and they tell you when they need a service.

Our mini recently needed it's second service (30k miles) and we couldn't get it into the dealer straight away, would be a week or so, when I phoned the dealer, they stated as long as it was serviced in the next 10k miles the warrantee would still stand, some people might take that as 'it doesn't really need a service for another 10k and carry on driving.

A work colleague with a brand new polo suffered two turbo failures in the two years she had it, but she loved VWs and replaced it with a Passat, which suffered a catastrophic engine failure a week after she bought it and needed the bottom end rebuilding. She looks after her cars religiously as her hubby is a jaguar fanatic. Weather It's just bad luck or bad cars all makes and models have there failures as I've said before the place next door to my brothers business is a vag speciallist so all I ever see is broken VWs and Audis doesn't mean they are all crap or break down, I just happen to be in the place all the broken ones congregate
Two dead bmws do not represent the whole company. A 53 and a 57 is sufficiently old enough for those cars to have developed problems or be mistreated
Another thing I've learned about BMWs is they all seem to have spaceship miles on the clock

 

[MJG]

I think I need to lodge some sort of complaint some where....

We had 18 months (and 18,000 miles) of trouble free 500 ownership including regular trips to France.

Our 14 month old 500L is now on 20K miles also including long problem free trips to France. OK it had a couple of electrical gremlins when we got first got it but nothing critical.

Clearly (aside from tempting fate perhaps) we are doing something wrong