Technical WARNING: programing a Mazda key fob

[spidermania]

So, I buy my 2018 124 a little over two weeks ago and I only receive one key fob. I was suppose to receive two fobs but they said one got loss in transit, (code for it was stolen) They, the dealer tells me they can get a Mazda fob that is exactly the same as the FIAT and program it for me at no cost to me, which was about 300 USD.

Drove 50 miles and the so called key expert can't program it and is left stunned that he couldn't do it. Not only did FIAT block it, it tripped a fault code on the dash and triggered shutting down all the proximity operations and the passenger air-bag light has now gone bonkers. Along with the start/stop button continually flashing.

The fobs in the 124 is not simply for opening doors etc or the alarm system, there are safety parameters tied into it. This is why FIAT built into the system to prevent unauthorized keys being programed, to protect themselves legally from lawsuits and to protect the consumer because of all the counterfeit keys on ebay and Amazon. You cannot even clear a used FIAT 124 fob and reuse it.

What does this all mean for me, I may be driving a death trap, that in the event of an accident the air-bags will not deploy.
They have ordered an official FIAT fob for my 124 and will attempt to clear the entire system and start from scratch and reprogram two fobs.

We will see, stay tuned.

 

[the green vanper]

to protect the consumer because of all the counterfeit keys on ebay and Amazon. You cannot even clear a used FIAT 124 fob and reuse it.

No, they made it to earn more money... The car manufacturers want us to spend lots of money when purchasing the car and then again on servicing.

That's why they introduced SGW on the CAN system, because byuing MES + the appropriate interface became very affordable.

 

[varesecrazy]

So, I buy my 2018 124 a little over two weeks ago and I only receive one key fob. I was suppose to receive two fobs but they said one got loss in transit, (code for it was stolen) They, the dealer tells me they can get a Mazda fob that is exactly the same as the FIAT and program it for me at no cost to me, which was about 300 USD.

Drove 50 miles and the so called key expert can't program it and is left stunned that he couldn't do it. Not only did FIAT block it, it tripped a fault code on the dash and triggered shutting down all the proximity operations and the passenger air-bag light has now gone bonkers. Along with the start/stop button continually flashing.

The fobs in the 124 is not simply for opening doors etc or the alarm system, there are safety parameters tied into it. This is why FIAT built into the system to prevent unauthorized keys being programed, to protect themselves legally from lawsuits and to protect the consumer because of all the counterfeit keys on ebay and Amazon. You cannot even clear a used FIAT 124 fob and reuse it.

What does this all mean for me, I may be driving a death trap, that in the event of an accident the air-bags will not deploy.
They have ordered an official FIAT fob for my 124 and will attempt to clear the entire system and start from scratch and reprogram two fobs.

We will see, stay tuned.

Wow! ,
that's fairly spectacular

 

[spidermania]

Yeah, and beyond that it's scary ! And from my research even a factory trained FIAT tech can barely reset it and start changing out parts playing a guessing game. Not to mention there are no FIAT service centers in my area. So then I have to find an independent who can work on foreign cars and hope they are not just parts changers milking it for money.

At this point I don't care about 2 fobs, just get my 124 back to normal and I'll live with the one fob. With the new fob on the way and labor cost the dealer now has close to 1000 USD tied up into this mess.
What makes me angry is I had mention to that so called fob expert, and all he does is programed fobs for dealerships and cuts the emergency keys. I had mention a possible fault code and he assured me he could clear it. He was so stunned he was almost in tears apologizing to me.

Some reports out I have read that some people are willing to ignore it and drive as is, I'm not one of them. But there is a Big misconception out here that FIAT is trying to force us to buy theirs, they sure are because the chip inside has been 'properly programed' to meet the security&safety standards they design into the 124. Are we to trust the communist over in China with all the counterfeits, I'm not.

 

[chris3234]

You can generally reprogram any used key to another car not just the ones for the spider

 

[s130]

That's why they introduced SGW on the CAN system, because byuing MES + the appropriate interface became very affordable.

That is a little incorrect. The SGW was a poor attempt by Fiat to tackle the hacking of the vehicle system for theft and other crime related issues. This was all requested / demanded by the EU and other makes of vehicles have similar bodges. I gather on one make they block write operations to the vehicle by having to have a certain combination of doors, bonnets, ,boots, windows etc. open.

Rest assured things will get even worse! Fully Encrypted CAN-Bus is on the cars requiring vehicle connection to manufacturer servers for the relevant cryptographic key.

See: https://insights.edag.com/en/mandatory-cybersecurity-vehicle-engineering-hacking

Also read this article on CAN-Injection: https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/

Yes the thieves bypass getting into the car and got for external CAN connected devices like headlamps, camera, radar units, etc. This is what is driving the total and full encryption of all data on the CAN-Bus.

The side effect of all of this, like the simple SGW hack, is that the genuine car owner and DIY bod is prohibited or severely hindered in any DIY job.

Of course this plays into the manufacturer's hands and the larger independent garages as they get more business!

 

[thornebt]

You can generally reprogram any used key to another car not just the ones for the spider

But the expert couldn't do it!

Reading this makes you want to buy a 60s / 70s car without all the electronics, alarm, central locking...

Just turn the key in the individual door locks after fitting the Krook-lok and removing the rotor arm!

 

[univergo1]

But the expert couldn't do it!

Reading this makes you want to buy a 60s / 70s car without all the electronics, alarm, central locking...

Just turn the key in the individual door locks after fitting the Krook-lok and removing the rotor arm!

Well, I have a 2018 Lusso with one FOB and I am terrified to get a back up. I read a lot of horror stories. The independent Alpha/ all Italy shop says no problem with programing it 800.00 FOB included.

But I am afraid, so i'm waiting for one of you come up with something

 

[the green vanper]

That is a little incorrect. The SGW was a poor attempt by Fiat to tackle the hacking of the vehicle system for theft and other crime related issues. This was all requested / demanded by the EU and other makes of vehicles have similar bodges. I gather on one make they block write operations to the vehicle by having to have a certain combination of doors, bonnets, ,boots, windows etc. open.

Rest assured things will get even worse! Fully Encrypted CAN-Bus is on the cars requiring vehicle connection to manufacturer servers for the relevant cryptographic key.

See: https://insights.edag.com/en/mandatory-cybersecurity-vehicle-engineering-hacking

Also read this article on CAN-Injection: https://kentindell.github.io/2023/04/03/can-injection/

Yes the thieves bypass getting into the car and got for external CAN connected devices like headlamps, camera, radar units, etc. This is what is driving the total and full encryption of all data on the CAN-Bus.

The side effect of all of this, like the simple SGW hack, is that the genuine car owner and DIY bod is prohibited or severely hindered in any DIY job.

Of course this plays into the manufacturer's hands and the larger independent garages as they get more business!

I could agree, but the manufacturers invented keyless

 

[s130]

I could agree, but the manufacturers invented keyless

Yes they did but a the behest of user convenience and marketing hype.

On the 'old' (pre 2000) cars yes the key operated the ignition switch which controlled the power and the starter motor. Yes you could force the locks, or 'slim jim' the door mechanisms and from there attack the ignition lock.

On later cars we got the chipped mechanical keys which were read by RF signal. This in turn allowed the key control unit to energise the various electrical circuits and enable the body computer. On Fiats the body computer and key control unit automatically "paired" themselves. These systems were not CAN based and whilst hackable there were no real external "plugin" access points like on the later EOBD-II and CAN bases systems.

The say size matters!. A 747 jet has no ignition keys or door keys and anybody who can get access to the cockpit can start the plane and abscond with it if they know what they are doing. Apart from an illegal joy ride I'm not sure what else one could do with a nicked 747. Same goes for almost all aircraft. No keys, all key-less, just hop-on-in go fly and then get shot down!