Technical wanting to put the mk1 Abarth 1.4 in my punto

[Jaybe]

well i hope to have a better response to my questions than my last try. anyway i am intending to put a mk1 500 abarth engine and box in my punto . it comes complete with ECU so now the questions as electrics is not my best. i am more mechanical fabricating anyway will the ecu be just a plug n play or will i need to change the pins around in plug?? also i saw a video on you tube that the guy was on about the fuse box . i am googling as much info on wiring as i can find . i know its going to be a headache for me but i am hoping you might know and be prepared to share with me .

 

[the green vanper]

will the ecu be just a plug n play

It won't.

change the pins around in plug

It won't be enough.

The cars are more like computers nowadays. There are several modules that communicate with each other.

FYI, that's how a 2011/12 Ducato BCM (body module) looks like:

The cab's fuses and relays are on top of it:

On the 2nd and 3rd photos the PCB is in the same position. The middle port on the bottom is the OBD2 port.

So, if you don't now a lot about it (and I assume you don't), just don't even try.

 

[Jaybe]

It won't.



It won't be enough.

The cars are more like computers nowadays. There are several modules that communicate with each other.

FYI, that's how a 2011/12 Ducato BCM (body module) looks like:

View attachment 473953 View attachment 473954

The cab's fuses and relays are on top of it:

View attachment 473955


On the 2nd and 3rd photos the PCB is in the same position. The middle port on the bottom is the OBD2 port.

So, if you don't now a lot about it (and I assume you don't), just don't even try.

Well I like a challenge. So what do I need to do to get to communicate with Brain. Is it the communication with the car it's self. I thought using the donor engine and it's ECU from that engine would work but the car electricals would need setting up. Computers weren't around when I left college you had to be an auto electrician to repair car electrics. And I was a car mechanic as it was called then so we didn't touch much electrics and when I worked for vag group we just plugged it in to our diagnostic machine and it would check everything. I don't know whom to ask if I can't find the information on here.

 

[the green vanper]

There is no single brain. There are six - nine of them. You need them to speak the same language.

The problem is the engine brain speaks 500ish, the other ones speak puntish...

I don't say it's not impossible, but I'm afraid it would be much, much more than a challenge for you.

There are Punto Abarths on the market - why not look for one of them? or as a neglected car to take care of, or as a donor?

 

[Jaybe]

There is no single brain. There are six - nine of them. You need them to speak the same language.

The problem is the engine brain speaks 500ish, the other ones speak puntish...

I don't say it's not impossible, but I'm afraid it would be much, much more than a challange for you.

There are Punto Abarths on the market - why not look for one of them? or as a neglected car to take care of, or as a donor?

so its sensors that tell the ecu that all is correct in pick up that mine wont communicate with it being an punto ?? so i cant buy a brain for a 1360 punto abarth ? i call it a brain . so its not as easy as using wiring diagrams and using my multi meter to check signals or check sensors even splicing it . i am taking in what i learn as you can never know enough about things so thank you for explaining

 

[jackwhoo]

The reason you haven't got many answers is your question has been asked many times before but different models/different engines.
The answer is always the same you are never going to do it , the electronic systems are too complicated .
The people asking the question never accept the answer ....thread goes on and on and on.
No one has ever come back with they did it successfully with an explanation of who they did it.

@the green vanper

Gave you the best advice in post 4

 

[Jaybe]

Ok understand. I will have to either change car or see what I can get from the 1.2 vvc I have in it . I ve done the usuals complete exhaust system de cat/ throttle pedal program / a piggy back afr adjustable program/K&N element/ cam would be next on the list. It is gutless still . Have to do a comp test . Well thank you and I didn't know it was a regular question on here. Plus since I adjusted the piggyback afr. engine management lights come on better on fuel so need to check plug colour then the comp and if need be have the head off . I must check a few things.

 

[Jaybe]

I suppose I can't even put a 1.4 8v in my 2014 Punto Evo ?? Because of the same thing not communicating with each other.

 

[the green vanper]

I suppose I can't even put a 1.4 8v in my 2014 Punto Evo ?? Because of the same thing not communicating with each other.

It's more likely that such swap will work, assuming it will be the same generation of the car.

Find someone who tried it, he should confirm if it's doable and what kind of problems he's encountered during the swap.

 

[the green vanper]

Haven't told the insurance yet but I will have to at some point...

I don't know the regulations in the UK, will it ever be street legal? I assume a car needs to have a road homologation, both of the donors had. What about the resulting car?

 

[Jaybe]

I don't know the regulations in the UK, will it ever be street legal? I assume a car needs to have a road homologation, both of the donors had. What about the resulting car?

well that sounds a bit more promising than trying to fit the twin cam Abarth engine .my homework now begins trying to find a thread on changing the 8 v 1.2 to a 1.4 8v . how far back i wonder and what forum its on. if its been done and written about it . wish me luck "the green vapour" and i hope you can help me out further if i need further technically .

 

[jackwhoo]

well that sounds a bit more promising than trying to fit the twin cam Abarth engine .my homework now begins trying to find a thread on changing the 8 v 1.2 to a 1.4 8v . how far back i wonder and what forum its on. if its been done and written about it . wish me luck "the green vapour" and i hope you can help me out further if i need further technically .

There is very little power difference between the 1.2 8v and 1.4 8v . It will not be worth the effort /pain/ cost let alone increased cost of insurance especially with all the other alterations you have made to your car.

You mentioned mil is on , you need a code reader to find out why it's on . You say you have taken catalyst out and fitted something to alter the afr, both of those things could turn on the mil.

If you want a larger more powerful engine the best advice you could receive is buy a standard car with better performance.

 

[Jaybe]

There is very little power difference between the 1.2 8v and 1.4 8v . It will not be worth the effort /pain/ cost let alone increased cost of insurance especially with all the other alterations you have made to your car.

You mentioned mil is on , you need a code reader to find out why it's on . You say you have taken catalyst out and fitted something to alter the are, both of those things could turn on the mil.

If you want a larger more powerful engine the best advice you could receive is buy a standard car with better performance.

thank for your input . i am not being funny but my 1275 mini cooper was quicker top speed and a damn faster acceleration but that was a few years ago and i was working in the trade. well now i love the shape of my punto apart from the blind spots
, its my new toy/mini . i cant help myself in trying to soup up my cars like i do my motorcycles i am a speed freaking petrol head . goes back to my youth when i helped out a drag car team.

 

[Dan at Adrian Flux]

Hi.
If you have any issues with insurance at all for this type of conversion then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.

 

[Jaybe]

It won't.



It won't be enough.

The cars are more like computers nowadays. There are several modules that communicate with each other.

FYI, that's how a 2011/12 Ducato BCM (body module) looks like:

View attachment 473953 View attachment 473954

The cab's fuses and relays are on top of it:

View attachment 473955


On the 2nd and 3rd photos the PCB is in the same position. The middle port on the bottom is the OBD2 port.

So, if you don't now a lot about it (and I assume you don't), just don't even try.

i thought i would tell you i know the locations of all the fuse box's -OBD 2 which is just by my right knee the other box is on passenger side inside then finally the one under the bonnet . so i guess you was saying its a lot of changing them to the 16valve controllers if i were to try and fit 1.4 16v double over head valve . i also have the mutiscan leads and full licence . now please be patient with me . insurance isnt expensive for me so i will be letting DVLA know with engine number . Are the main looms the same .

 

[bugsymike]

i thought i would tell you i know the locations of all the fuse box's -OBD 2 which is just by my right knee the other box is on passenger side inside then finally the one under the bonnet . so i guess you was saying its a lot of changing them to the 16valve controllers if i were to try and fit 1.4 16v double over head valve . i also have the mutiscan leads and full licence . now please be patient with me . insurance isnt expensive for me so i will be letting DVLA know with engine number . Are the main looms the same .

We would all be happy to be proved wrong when you roll up at a show, but basically I think you are "flogging a dead horse", in the days pre computers, it was a case of overcoming the mechanical issues which were mainly commonsense.
Many of us have done all sorts of wild conversions in the past, but nowadays after overcoming all the mechanical issues, as has been mentioned the computer side is highly specialised and usually expensive.
If you were running a stripped out race car with no other electrics, then a tuneable one off ECU to get the max. out of that engine would do the job. However a road car needs engine ECU, Airbag ECU, Body Control ECU, immobiliser ECU, etc, etc. and they all need to talk to each other.

 

[jackwhoo]

The wiring looms for the same model but different engines are more often than not totally different. You can't just get ecus for a different engine type and plug them in. It is far far more complicated than you can imagine.

If you had a complete perfectly running donor car to swap everything and I mean everything over then maybe you could do it.

 

[Jaybe]

Thanks again. I forgot to say that I would go for the Punto 16v engine . Mind you I thought all 16v engines are the same just the electrics . I get what you mean by Punto trying to communicate with 500 . I just wasn't sure if I bought the Punto 16v control boxes they might have communicated. I guess my mate who's an auto electrician won't know about that sort of thing ?? Sounds more like a software engineering thing. Oh well stick to putting in the 1.4 8v engine in as I've just got one.