Technical Van won't start after oil change (plus some other crap)

[KieranF]

Ok, so the short story is, i just replaced my oil, and coolant, and the thing started fine, fired it up and drove it off my ramps, and then stopped it. a few minutes later i went to start it up again and it doesnt turn over at all.. just a loud click when i try... checked the battery voltage, seems good around 13v, so i guess its something to do with the starter motor... but im just wondering why it chose now to do it.

another thing that really confuses me, right after my first oil change (immediately), i had the oil warning light on ever since then, and a message saying to change the oil.. i mostly ignored it until now because the oil is expensive, and i don't drive it barely as im still working on the interior... maybe 10k a week, and i know the oil is in there (dipstick says it's fine levels)- my thoughts were that i might have overfilled it a bit causing a light

first replacement, i put 7l into it, this time about 5 to see if it would cure the oil light (which it didnt)

Anyway, im wondering if anyone has any idea about why the oil light comes on, and also about the failure for the engine to crank... my best theories atm are-

maybe the oil filter isnt that good, causing a pressure problem?
maybe i spilled some fluids on the starter motor shorting it out?

any feedback greatly appreciated

 

[RS3100]

Is it a Euro 5 or 6 van with DPF?

They have a software oil degradation counter, which should be reset with diagnostic equipment each time the oil is changed. If not reset, it will continue calculating the oil's condition on the assumption that it has never been changed, and when it determines that the oil is no longer offering suitable protection, it activates the "Change engine oil" message and warning lamp. A short time later it will enter limp mode, and eventually refuse to start.

Your message seems to suggest that you are only doing "10k" (10,000 miles) a week? But if you mean 10 miles, that's likely to be very hard on the oil and the particle filter system, which would cause the degradation counter to trigger much sooner than on a vehicle travelling 30,000 miles a year.

A strange coincidence that is is refusing to start immediately after an oil change though, so possibly something else is causing that. Although I have to say that Sod's Law seems to always dictate for me that if something is going to go wrong, it invariably does it after I have chnaged or fiddled with something else, leading me to think that the two are connected, which is often no the case.

If not Euro 5 or 6, you still need to reset the service counter, which calculates time to the next required oil change on a fixed time and mileage basis.

 

[KieranF]

10k- 10km

actually i was experiencing what seemed like some throttling shortly before i did the oil change, particularly for the first couple minutes of operation- i assumed it was throttled as the oil pressure equalized or something like that. which is why i decided to do a little maintenance and try to troubleshoot it.

i had considered it was a protective system stopping it from starting, but if that was the case, i doubt the solenoid would be triggering and not the starter itself... i think tomorrow ill have to do some research and figure out how to test the starter with a multimeter and see if the power is actually getting to it

 

[cris1117]

In your situation given the oil light I would first check the engine is able to turn over (socket on the bottom pulley).
If the engine seems free I would then try a jump lead from the earth side of the battery to a good earth on the engine block and see if it will turn over on the key to check for a faulty earth lead (common problem).
Then I would check the wiring on the starter is clean and tight.
A bad electrical connection will often make a loud click and can sound very much like the solenoid engaging.

 

[KieranF]

Engine turns over and starts, i managed to get it started last night, but then it wont start again, my procedure was- smack the starter a couple times with a wrench, didnt seem to help, then go try to start it about 50 times, and eventually it did turn over
ill try the grounding thing you suggested

 

[KieranF]

it seems likely that the starter is just cooked though

 

[varesecrazy]

it seems likely that the starter is just cooked though

Being 'sealed units'

When the motor brushes are well worn they can get choked on their own carbon

Ive had good results on a flush out and clean of the armature

Remember you can test.fire the starter on the ground with jump leads

 

[KieranF]

I've prettymuch confirmed it was the starter, today i smacked it with a hammer quite hard, and it started right up, and i could repeat that a few times... i went to buy a new started, but they gave me the wrong part... i have the previous starter out now though, varesecrazy, how would i do that? i might have a crack at disassembling the old starter tonight and see if i can do some maintenance

also, i'm thinking, while the EGR code isnt causing any issues really, i wanna try remove the EGR and clean that out so im thinking of draining the coolant, and removing that too
does anyone have a repair/workshop manual for this thing?

i found this thread on another forum but discussing a different issue, pictured exact same EGR valve and location

 

[varesecrazy]

Your motor looks newer than mine..

Starters are not super complex.. youtube should give you a fair idea

DO TAKE PICS and notes..

 

[andydiver]

Where did you get to with the earth and power wires? As a rule of thumb its never the starter... Hitting it just slightly reduces the current needed to turn it over or shook the faulting connection, or, more likely, is random.
Be careful not to short across any terminal, remove and really clean the wires.
Also engine block to chassis, chassis to bettery, and the is evidence the braided earth straps can fail internally too. Much cheaper than a starter.

 

[KieranF]

It was the starter. thanks to being impatient because they gave me the wrong part, i decided, what the hell, the parts going in the bin if it doesnt work anyway... seems like a pretty simple fix also.

i took two bolts and two phillips head screws out, and took out the brush assembly. one of the brush holders was very slightly corroded, and was siezed, so it wouldnt have been making contact with the motor. basically all i did was soaked it in degreaser, and mobilised that brush to free it, removed as much grease as i could throughout the rest of the starter and applied some fresh stuff... and now seems to be working fine, so im gonna go return the new starter today.

so instead of a $230 fix, it now is a $10 fix just to buy some grease...

next i should try to tackle the EGR issue... theres not much documentation online about my particular model, how to remove it etc so i think im gonna have to figure it out as i go

 

[KieranF]

finally got the EGR valve out, doesnt look too bad in terms of carbon.. the cooler might be the problem, looks like it's potentially pretty sooted up, and the egr cooler i got doesnt seem to be clearing it out well enough.. might try oven cleaner lol

 

[oigle]

Unfortunately it is the inlet manifold that becomes the main issue. A mix of egr gases and PCV vapour makes a lovely mix. The cooler should be OK because it doesn't get any PCV vapour through it.
Ian.

 

[KieranF]

ok, all done, and it was a hassle.. i wonder how much money i saved as i spent alot on tools and solvents etc...

the cooler and the valve itself didnt look too bad at all, so i doubt that was the issue... i almost overlooked it, but the pipe connected to the cooler with a dildo looking thing on the end was the most crudded up and probably the issue... though with how crudded up it was, i imagine theres more upstream, so maybe need to run some liqui moly or something thru it at some point... this being my first major mechanical endeavour, i 100% expected to turn the key and the engine to blow up, but it seems i am disappointed... ill post more info and pics later,

i found gasoline to be a good solvent for cleaning the pipes, i used oven cleaner on the cooler, the cooler didnt seem to contain any aluminium so i think it will be ok

i also ran some carb cleaner through the crudded up pipe which also worked well for the hard to reach places..

i cleared the code and started the van and so far, no re-code but i think i have to drive it a little to be sure.

 

[KieranF]

So, engine light came on again today, EGR related.. im thinking it might just be that the servo is faulty or something
starter motor also doesnt sound good, might just replace it with a new one

 

[KieranF]

heres some pics

here is the crud coming out of the EGR cooler with oven cleaner
https://imgur.com/a/6BLe9JU

im gonna see if i can find a problem with the wiring on the egr today, maybe that is the problem

 

[KieranF]

My new theory is that the egr wiring is faulty somewhere, but i have no idea about the pins on the EGR harness to test it, or where it might fail.. anyone got a diagram of fiat egr harness, or maybe some idea on how to find a fault in the wiring

i managed to find a pair of pins with 5v, none with 12v as far as i can tell... middle pin is ground, left pin is 5v on the harness

edit; the 2 wires i was testing must have been the potentiometer pins, if so i dont see any other ground there

 

[KieranF]

Ok this might be a bruh moment, but i was trying to solve it, thinking it might be an electrical issue etc (which it still may be)
and i remembered the clogged AF part and wanted to check further upstream to see if its equally clogged
anyway, i found a literal measuring cup looking mother****er lodged in this hose leading to the combustion chamber

wtf is it doing there... i believe it's meant to protect the hose off the shelf from dust and deformation but bruh... did the mechanic literally just leave the cap on and force the hose on until the cap lodged sideways in there... if it got melted it would have destroyed probably the egr cooler, egr valve and other **** too

bruh, wtf

 

[Anthony489]

Hi

That's astonishing. I think you are spot-on, that looks like a protective blanking cap and the "mechanic" hasn't realised it's supposed to be removed before assembly. Doh !

Regarding the wiring, I don't have any data for the more recent vans but I'd expect to see a Ground, a +12 V supply and one or more control and feedback wires. The EGR may well contain a potentiometer to send a feedback signal to the ECU, so that if it hasn't assumed the position demanded (e.g. it's stuck) a fault code can be logged.

 

[KieranF]

yeah the 5v would have been a reference for the potentiometer i reckon, i couldnt find a 12v in the pins though, no idea how to proceed in checking continuity between the egr and ECU though