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Technical Turning over but not starting ☹️

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Technical Turning over but not starting ☹️

Chico1983david

Chico1983david

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Hi all. So for probably the last month i was having trouble with starting the car, 3 or 4 attempts to get started but random like straight away Monday but not on Thursday. Last week tried to start car but it wasn’t having it. Checked oil and dipstick said it was empty! Got it filled back up and started up straight away. Now it’s stuck in works car park. It turns over like it’s just about to go. All I’ve done so far is remove and slight clean on spark plugs, one which had oil on it!?? Got a new set of plugs to try tomorrow but if that doesn’t work.... only got 37k on it
 
Chico1983david said:
Hi all. So for probably the last month i was having trouble with starting the car, 3 or 4 attempts to get started but random like straight away Monday but not on Thursday. Last week tried to start car but it wasn’t having it. Checked oil and dipstick said it was empty! Got it filled back up and started up straight away. Now it’s stuck in works car park. It turns over like it’s just about to go. All I’ve done so far is remove and slight clean on spark plugs, one which had oil on it!?? Got a new set of plugs to try tomorrow but if that doesn’t work.... only got 37k on it
Click to expand...
Its a 2005 panda dynamic
 
Turn on the ignition

Listen for the pump under the rear seats to prime. fuel getting to the injectors

Look carefully at the dash.

Petrol gauge. Make sure there is some in there

Engine check light should be on, volts one of the volts are present

The immobiliser light should be off. It’s seen the key correctly

The clock shouldn’t be flashing. Volts aren’t dropping below 6.5 volts while cranking

Then crank the engine the rev counter should move slightly (assuming you don’t have an active without a rev counter) ECU is seeing a signal from the crank sensor

Try jump leads of another car. They will turn over fine as low as 6 volts but will not fire up
 
Last edited:
koalar said:
Turn on the ignition

Listen for the pump under the rear seats to prime. fuel getting to the injectors

Look carefully at the dash.

Petrol gauge. Make sure there is some in there

Engine check light should be on, volts one of the volts are present

The immobiliser light should be off. It’s seen the key correctly

The clock shouldn’t be flashing. Volts aren’t dropping below 6.5 volts while cranking

Then crank the engine the rev counter should move slightly (assuming you don’t have an active without a rev counter) ECU is seeing a signal from the crank sensor

Try jump leads of another car. They will turn over fine as low as 6 volts but will not fire up
Click to expand...
I’ve tried all and all is fine, I’ve not tried jump leads as battery is a year old
 
Here is a thought, if oil was very low and you had to top it up, have you noticed it turns over very easy but still hard to start? Just to cheer you up if that is the case, try a compression test.
I had a customer with a three cylinder VW Polo 1. litre , very low mileage but using a lot of engine oil, regularly serviced, everything else OK. Did a compression test and quite low readings. Put some oil down the bores and compression readings improved, put plugs back in and car started immediately. Thinking back I had this on a Ford Fiesta also.
Now the technical bit 🥱.
Basically modern small engines rely on revs for their power and are designed "oversquare" this means the bore size is greater than the piston stroke. Nothing to normally concern the car buyer, but what it means is they have a tendency to piston wear resulting in high oil consumption due to poor sealing at the piston rings in the bore and when combined with low oil level in the sump less oil is splashed around the pistons so they don't seal so well resulting in low compression and poor starting.
If that is the case, low compression and no other faults found all you can do is make sure you have the correct oil and level in the engine until it gets so bad you sell the car or have an expensive engine rebuild!
If still stuck in car park I suggest trying a few tea spoons of oil down each plug hole, leave for a few minutes , then spin engine over with cloth over plug holes for the mess, clean up , replace plugs and try and start the car. You may want to check oil level again and possibly do the compression test. Nothing to lose and it won't cost you any money to try it! Please reply if you try this, if only to prove me wrong ;).
 
Chico1983david said:
I’ve tried all and all is fine, I’ve not tried jump leads as battery is a year old
Click to expand...
A bit more feedback would help

Like there is a buzz for two second
Or
The rev counter stays at bottom but vibrates

We aren’t there and have no way of knowing what’s going on.

Without feedback you will just end up with a very long list of every possible component


These engines start fine on 2 cylinders. They don’t idle and will vibrate and cut out

If it’s not trying to catch it’s likely that the immobiliser on, your not got a correct 5 volt reference voltage or one of the sensors is giving the correct information


Pull the MAP sensor out and post a picture

They will struggle to start when the spark plug gaps get too big

Post some pictures of your old ones
 
Modern three banger engines need to be revved. Drivers slogging them along and refusing to shift down despite the engine complaining cause considerable damage. They are built to spin quickly and will run happily for high miles like that.

The Fiat FIRE used in the Panda is more "normal" it tolerates low revs and actually pulls quite well. I don't think "slogging" (failing to downshift when needed) does any serious harm, though it feels horrible to my bones (and its annoying when the driver ahead can't accelerate up a hill).

Low oil is a worry. Engines can (usually) be repaired after overheating. They cannot be repaired after oil starvation everything gets rubbed raw. Hopefully your problems are cheap to fix, but you need to do a full compression test.
 
Hi all, thanks for all the feedback. So a work mate had a look and he unplugged the map sensor and plugged back in and fired up first time. Could i just need a new sensor? Oil levels are fine but checking daily.
 
MAP sensor gets bad readings due to a drop of oil on the sensor

A blocked breather tube is the cheapest cause

Take the airbox off (2X 10 mm bolts) post a photo of the bit underneath

If there’s oil (mayo looking) then it’s likely this tube is block

Oil on the MAP sensor cases a combination of
Long cranking to start
Stuttering on acceleration
None start
Sometimes clears after high revs

Usually comes back until the cause has been fixed




E807CD16-118F-4A5D-BA7A-BCC56EE62902.jpeg
 
Last edited:
koalar said:
MAP sensor gets bad readings due to a drop of oil on the sensor

A blocked breather tube is the cheapest cause

Take the airbox off (2X 10 mm bolts) post a photo of the bit underneath

If there’s oil (mayo looking) then it’s likely this tube is block

Oil on the MAP sensor cases a combination of
Long cranking to start
Stuttering on acceleration
None start
Sometimes clears after high revs

Usually comes back until the cause has been fixed




View attachment 410375
Click to expand...
 

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