General Thinking of coming back to the Panda...

[Marcus Daly]

I ran a CT200h for four years as a company car—loved it.

 

[quotethepigeon]

on the safety front please ignore the rating, its only because the car has no tech to avoid a crash, if your anything of a driver youll be doing that anyway, its a 4 star car in 2012 and hasnt changed the way it performs in a crash.

I think the ved rates changed late 2016 so if you want £30 a year ved you need pre 2016.

Also i believe a car has a better "rating" if these gadgets are available to the model... Don't even have to be installed.

 

[SB1500]

Also i believe a car has a better "rating" if these gadgets are available to the model... Don't even have to be installed.

I'm quite sure I read something about the 2011/2012 current shape Panda being one of the first (if not the first) car in its A-segment to have the city-brake assist sensor / system as an option! And then Fiat took it away from being an option around 2016, by 2018 when it was retested it surely lost lots of points for that :-/

 

[SB1500]

Well, I got my Avensis back and they have fixed it beyond reproach! I didn't actually think they could - and was starting to think Silver was somewhat of a challenge to get right, but nope, they wiped the look off my face! It actually looks better than the other side now, I noticed all silver Avensis models (at least the 2015-on facelift) have a slightly darker back door. That's not to say they shouldn't have fixed it, they definitely made mine night and day looking... but now it's all blended rather well and the other side looks off, but it's all fine you'd never notice it as I'm sure you haven't despite the 20+ silver Avensis taxi's you probably pass everyday!

My car is fine now, nothing to complain about as such. I've spent so much on it last year and this year (notably a new battery, four new Michelin tyres, had the coolant, brake fluid and gearbox oil changed and all using genuine fluids..) that financially keeping it is the way to go.

Someone mentioned above about holding on to this car and then seeing what Fiat do with the next Panda or its successor. I definitely think the way things are going I'll be downsizing next, as nice as this car is size wise. But diesel isn't getting any cheaper. Apparently 45-50mpg is good for the size, and I should stop complaining, but the DS3 hit mid 60s easy, even with poor driving. I can't really remember the Panda's MPG , it was never bad enough that I had to care - even as a broke student. Then again, in 2015 when I got hold of my silver one, petrol had reached 99p temporarily around October of that year. Things are different now.

I don't believe EVs will be prominent, I think the deadline will be extended and we'll mostly be running much more efficient hybrids if nothing else. I hope for that at least, unless big things change.

Been noticing a lot of new Corsa's and 208s. Not a fan of the 208 styling. The Corsa, I think looks much better. Never been a fan of Peugeot from my DS3 quality experience - given that it was only two months older than my 2017 Panda and had all of its parking sensors replaced one by one, and a warranty issue / corroding alloys all whilst the Panda was no trouble at all, and clean. My mum's old 208 (now wrote off) also had oil leaking from it from 2 years old... it was the 1.0 non turbo petrol engine. Perhaps the EV situation is better for PSA. If the new Panda is going to be based on this, I think with a bit of Italian flair it might be palatable. Here's for hoping.

I still keep looking at AutoTrader and having to talk myself out of a Panda 4x4 or Cross, or a Fiat 500C (especially the Riva). I massively <massively> regret getting rid of that little 2017 Easy Panda. I never realised how rare it was, even for a 2 year old car at the time, to be virtually free of swirl marks and to still have that fabric smell of a new car! It was sitting in the sun during one of the lockdown's, bored if nothing else, thinking to myself how much better a 'conventional' car might be... and one with all the gimmicks. So I bought the DS3 - and it was nice in its own way. But it was no Panda, in terms of charm and personal appeal that nobody else gets. Now I know that it didn't matter, I should have kept it because I loved it! Screw what anyone else thinks - they can go and buy their BMWs and whatnot.

No Panda has cruise control, and no 500 has heated seats as an option (am I right in thinking that?). No 4x4 is new enough to have the new touch screen either. In an ideal world, I'd spec a new 4x4, with the new touchscreen option, the winter pack and that'd be enough for me. But the configurator isn't as fun as it used to be and things like the heated seats are only on the Garmin if I'm not mistaken. And as I found, for around 18k fully loaded, comparing that with a competing car (the new Aygo) you can get a tonne more kit including an auto gearbox for around the same. Fiat is driving a hard bargain, I have to wonder who's buying them? The likes of my granny who bought the Pop model in 2015 for £6,999, there was great finance offers and they bought it because it was simple inside and basic, the non remote key wasn't even considered a downside to her! lol At twice the price, whose buying em?!

I'm trying Fiat, I really am! But it's not easy to justify - even to myself haha

 

[The Panda Nut]

Well, I got my Avensis back and they have fixed it beyond reproach! I didn't actually think they could - and was starting to think Silver was somewhat of a challenge to get right, but nope, they wiped the look off my face! It actually looks better than the other side now, I noticed all silver Avensis models (at least the 2015-on facelift) have a slightly darker back door. That's not to say they shouldn't have fixed it, they definitely made mine night and day looking... but now it's all blended rather well and the other side looks off, but it's all fine you'd never notice it as I'm sure you haven't despite the 20+ silver Avensis taxi's you probably pass everyday!

My car is fine now, nothing to complain about as such. I've spent so much on it last year and this year (notably a new battery, four new Michelin tyres, had the coolant, brake fluid and gearbox oil changed and all using genuine fluids..) that financially keeping it is the way to go.

Someone mentioned above about holding on to this car and then seeing what Fiat do with the next Panda or its successor. I definitely think the way things are going I'll be downsizing next, as nice as this car is size wise. But diesel isn't getting any cheaper. Apparently 45-50mpg is good for the size, and I should stop complaining, but the DS3 hit mid 60s easy, even with poor driving. I can't really remember the Panda's MPG , it was never bad enough that I had to care - even as a broke student. Then again, in 2015 when I got hold of my silver one, petrol had reached 99p temporarily around October of that year. Things are different now.

I don't believe EVs will be prominent, I think the deadline will be extended and we'll mostly be running much more efficient hybrids if nothing else. I hope for that at least, unless big things change.

Been noticing a lot of new Corsa's and 208s. Not a fan of the 208 styling. The Corsa, I think looks much better. Never been a fan of Peugeot from my DS3 quality experience - given that it was only two months older than my 2017 Panda and had all of its parking sensors replaced one by one, and a warranty issue / corroding alloys all whilst the Panda was no trouble at all, and clean. My mum's old 208 (now wrote off) also had oil leaking from it from 2 years old... it was the 1.0 non turbo petrol engine. Perhaps the EV situation is better for PSA. If the new Panda is going to be based on this, I think with a bit of Italian flair it might be palatable. Here's for hoping.

I still keep looking at AutoTrader and having to talk myself out of a Panda 4x4 or Cross, or a Fiat 500C (especially the Riva). I massively <massively> regret getting rid of that little 2017 Easy Panda. I never realised how rare it was, even for a 2 year old car at the time, to be virtually free of swirl marks and to still have that fabric smell of a new car! It was sitting in the sun during one of the lockdown's, bored if nothing else, thinking to myself how much better a 'conventional' car might be... and one with all the gimmicks. So I bought the DS3 - and it was nice in its own way. But it was no Panda, in terms of charm and personal appeal that nobody else gets. Now I know that it didn't matter, I should have kept it because I loved it! Screw what anyone else thinks - they can go and buy their BMWs and whatnot.

No Panda has cruise control, and no 500 has heated seats as an option (am I right in thinking that?). No 4x4 is new enough to have the new touch screen either. In an ideal world, I'd spec a new 4x4, with the new touchscreen option, the winter pack and that'd be enough for me. But the configurator isn't as fun as it used to be and things like the heated seats are only on the Garmin if I'm not mistaken. And as I found, for around 18k fully loaded, comparing that with a competing car (the new Aygo) you can get a tonne more kit including an auto gearbox for around the same. Fiat is driving a hard bargain, I have to wonder who's buying them? The likes of my granny who bought the Pop model in 2015 for £6,999, there was great finance offers and they bought it because it was simple inside and basic, the non remote key wasn't even considered a downside to her! lol At twice the price, whose buying em?!

I'm trying Fiat, I really am! But it's not easy to justify - even to myself haha

Conrad Andrson do a cise unit for £385. Ther was an alternative make fitted my a FF member that was less. Im probably going to get CC for mine as soon as I feel up to hanging upside down in the footwell ti fit it. I agree Fiat are pushing the boundaries with new prices!

 

[Goudrons]

You know, I was recently thinking about Fiats current offerings and wondered how old they all actually are.

The 500 has been around since 2008 and it was based on the 2003 model Panda anyway.
The current Panda from 2012
The Tipo is from 2015.
And the Fiat 500X from 2014.
Though I seem to think the Tipo/500X platform was shared with the 500L which was from around 2012.

The only new car really is the 500 EV which sits on a new platform and is from 2020.

The youngest platform, if you discount the 500 EV is old, very old.

Fiat aren't the only ones.
Cars in the Panda class all seem to be just as old.
The Picanto/i10 from 2011.
The VW UP is also from 2011.
Even the lastest Aygo is based on the older versions platform from 2014.

Seems if you want anything designed in this decade you'll have to move up at least one class of car into a supermini or small crossover.

 

[SB1500]

You know, I was recently thinking about Fiats current offerings and wondered how old they all actually are.

The 500 has been around since 2008 and it was based on the 2003 model Panda anyway.
The current Panda from 2012
The Tipo is from 2015.
And the Fiat 500X from 2014.
Though I seem to think the Tipo/500X platform was shared with the 500L which was from around 2012.

The only new car really is the 500 EV which sits on a new platform and is from 2020.

The youngest platform, if you discount the 500 EV is old, very old.

Fiat aren't the only ones.
Cars in the Panda class all seem to be just as old.
The Picanto/i10 from 2011.
The VW UP is also from 2011.
Even the lastest Aygo is based on the older versions platform from 2014.

Seems if you want anything designed in this decade you'll have to move up at least one class of car into a supermini or small crossover.

I remember us touching on this very subject around five years ago, and the platforms themselves were old then. Companies seem to be ditching the A-segment altogether! The C1 and 108 are dead... The C3 and 208 respectively are the new entry level French city cars. I suspect it's because the cost of developing the EV / Hybrid tech for those models in R&D will never pay back with the thin margins on the A-segment products. We're supposed to be getting lighter and more eco-friendly, but ironically they've come for the smallest, most economical cars in their ranges. Maybe the chip shortage too... limited chip production, rationing it out across the range and giving it to the higher margin more expensive cars. Or maybe NCAPs higher standards making it too expensive or impossible to make modern standard 'safe' cars within the dimension / price. Lastly... the size / weight constrictions and material needs of EV battery tech. Does the new 500 E fit into the A-segment or is it pretty much in Corsa-territory nowadays size wise?

It shocked me to think back to 2015 as 'nearly ten years ago', but I remember when I'd frequent all the car brands nearly daily and sink time into their configurators. Wasn't the basic Focus and Golf around £16k... now they're £27k and 26k! No more Avensis, Passat, or Mondeo either. The landscape has changed so much.

 

[SB1500]

I ran a CT200h for four years as a company car—loved it.

This is the car I 'should' go for. Decent prices used. Good spec. Nice badge. Reliable enough. But it doesn't excite me much more than my current Avensis. Definitely the one I should go for though, I'm sure it's flawless in everyday life

 

[porta]

I remember us touching on this very subject around five years ago, and the platforms themselves were old then. Companies seem to be ditching the A-segment altogether! The C1 and 108 are dead... The C3 and 208 respectively are the new entry level French city cars. I suspect it's because the cost of developing the EV / Hybrid tech for those models in R&D will never pay back with the thin margins on the A-segment products. We're supposed to be getting lighter and more eco-friendly, but ironically they've come for the smallest, most economical cars in their ranges. Maybe the chip shortage too... limited chip production, rationing it out across the range and giving it to the higher margin more expensive cars. Or maybe NCAPs higher standards making it too expensive or impossible to make modern standard 'safe' cars within the dimension / price. Lastly... the size / weight constrictions and material needs of EV battery tech. Does the new 500 E fit into the A-segment or is it pretty much in Corsa-territory nowadays size wise?

It shocked me to think back to 2015 as 'nearly ten years ago', but I remember when I'd frequent all the car brands nearly daily and sink time into their configurators. Wasn't the basic Focus and Golf around £16k... now they're £27k and 26k! No more Avensis, Passat, or Mondeo either. The landscape has changed so much.

According to press, the C3 replacement platform is still ‘under development’ but, on the Jeep forum, the new Avenger is stated as using this ‘new’ platform for the C3 and Fiat 600, and the Italian press is stating the panda replacement is going to be the first to use a new small (same length but wide) platform and remain a small segment car also to be utilised with the 500 (thought the e was new?)…all very confusing but I’m not sure panda segment size cars are going to disappear as there’s new offerings scheduled for VAG (Up) Toyota (Aygo) and even Smart

 

[The Panda Nut]

This is the car I 'should' go for. Decent prices used. Good spec. Nice badge. Reliable enough. But it doesn't excite me much more than my current Avensis. Definitely the one I should go for though, I'm sure it's flawless in everyday life

Its no Panda though...
Horses for courses.
Its not a good time to be buying as the landscape is not only changed hugely, but going to change a lot for some time. What will governments do to hydrocarbon fuel taxes in the near future? Whats the real future for battery power? Will hydrogen power be developed and indeed will personal transport really get squeezed by taxes of necessity. I thought of installing a car charger with my solar installation and decided against as I think the futire is unclear and the technology is changing, and is likely to change more and faster in the next few years
My brother had a lexus 400 some years back. It was not exciting at all. It was pretty effective and excelelnt apart from that. It did however go on and on faultlessly. It did not rust and was under Lexus warranty all the while he paid for their service. It absolutley went like the wind which must have looked very peculiar from outside having the air of an Edwardian Chest of drawers being chased by a chainsaw. A Panda wont do a lot of that, but somehow they make you smile and if the size isnt a deal breaker they are economic sense too.

 

[SB1500]

Its no Panda though...
Horses for courses.
Its not a good time to be buying as the landscape is not only changed hugely, but going to change a lot for some time. What will governments do to hydrocarbon fuel taxes in the near future? Whats the real future for battery power? Will hydrogen power be developed and indeed will personal transport really get squeezed by taxes of necessity. I thought of installing a car charger with my solar installation and decided against as I think the futire is unclear and the technology is changing, and is likely to change more and faster in the next few years
My brother had a lexus 400 some years back. It was not exciting at all. It was pretty effective and excelelnt apart from that. It did however go on and on faultlessly. It did not rust and was under Lexus warranty all the while he paid for their service. It absolutley went like the wind which must have looked very peculiar from outside having the air of an Edwardian Chest of drawers being chased by a chainsaw. A Panda wont do a lot of that, but somehow they make you smile and if the size isnt a deal breaker they are economic sense too.

That's exactly the thing. I'd hate to be paying double per month (because right now that's what an 18k car looks like payment wise) and over the 'wow factor' of the CT200h / or A-Class which is even within reach, only to be stuck paying big money. The big factor for me presently is that, to buy a decent Panda now you're easily up to 10-12k, if not more for the higher spec last two years model, so at best I'd be paying the same per month. But for a car that's a lot simple and feature-less than the Avensis. It's the smile it puts on your face and the pride of owning it to me that won't let me forget the idea of buying one though! It's just, until now, it always came with a little financial incentive of costing less to run and buy.

They just opened a new stretch of road here in NI that we'd been waiting for since before I was born anyway! The Avensis was phenomenal and smooth and all, going way way too fast on it... The Panda would have made it a lot easier to make more rational decisions about speed and that, which is also an incentive to me, that it's a car whose limits are well known and felt, and more caution to keep it in those limits versus the kind of driving you can get away with in other cars..

 

[varesecrazy]

I ended up looking at Ebay uk the other day

There were quite a few cars in the £4/5k bracket

We have a 2013 twinair lounge.. insurance value it @£4k...cost £5750 4 years ago

One car that caught my eye.. basically identical to look at but with the 1242cc 4 cyl FIRE

2013 red panda lounge..52k for @ £4k


In my mind.. that is going to last 5+ years..with @£1000 in servicing items

Get your own loan arrangement... thats yours in a couple of years.. and then basically free for the next 5


Its got twisty knob heater controls... (the climate can get expensive to fix )

Engine should do another 100k without issue, and the wear and tear parts are cheap.



Food for thought..

 

[Leroypanda]

I ended up looking at Ebay uk the other day

There were quite a few cars in the £4/5k bracket

We have a 2013 twinair lounge.. insurance value it @£4k...cost £5750 4 years ago

One car that caught my eye.. basically identical to look at but with the 1242cc 4 cyl FIRE

2013 red panda lounge..52k for @ £4k


In my mind.. that is going to last 5+ years..with @£1000 in servicing items

Get your own loan arrangement... thats yours in a couple of years.. and then basically free for the next 5


Its got twisty knob heater controls... (the climate can get expensive to fix )

Engine should do another 100k without issue, and the wear and tear parts are cheap.



Food for thought..

So glad you said that, was thinking my 13 plate pop on 36k was getting a bit old, but sounds like youd think id get a fair bit of use out of it yet!

 

[SB1500]

I ended up looking at Ebay uk the other day

There were quite a few cars in the £4/5k bracket

We have a 2013 twinair lounge.. insurance value it @£4k...cost £5750 4 years ago

One car that caught my eye.. basically identical to look at but with the 1242cc 4 cyl FIRE

2013 red panda lounge..52k for @ £4k


In my mind.. that is going to last 5+ years..with @£1000 in servicing items

Get your own loan arrangement... thats yours in a couple of years.. and then basically free for the next 5


Its got twisty knob heater controls... (the climate can get expensive to fix )

Engine should do another 100k without issue, and the wear and tear parts are cheap.



Food for thought..

That sort of pricing is what I found when looking. In my brain, (which sadly seems to be stuck around 2016) 2013 doesn't sound initially like a very old car. Then I look at today's date and that's a 10 year old Panda! Like the one I picked up in 2015. Not a 'new' or fresh car. Although in saying that, one I'm well familiar with. I suppose over 2 years that's still less than what I'm paying per month now... Then it's mine / freedom from finance. More headspace to buy a nicer house.

It's that mental block of going for a 'ten year old' car, you know? Not that I don't have faith in that 1.2 FIRE block or that I think it'll be anything but fun to work on when things do fall off.

Food for thought indeed... That's giving me ideas now to go and look at some slightly older cars. Also making me kick myself that I once had a 2017 Easy which was 2 years old in my possession for £5.5k.... the REGRET!!!

 

[gazz_bee]

Or maybe NCAPs higher standards making it too expensive or impossible to make modern standard 'safe' cars within the dimension / price. Lastly... the size / weight constrictions and material needs of EV battery tech. Does the new 500 E fit into the A-segment or is it pretty much in Corsa-territory nowadays size wise?

I think the first point is valid for the economies of small cars, given the array of sensors and computation needed for driver aids now mandated by NCAP standards. Incidentally, the 500e is only slightly bigger than the ICE version to the point you'd only notice the difference when they're parked side by side. Fiat have been really clever about battery packaging to keep it a small car.