Please sign the attached petition re above.
https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan...9YoY9ZGjN_t2Glb_UPO61ysXWHfvTKdz7_Y56p4yxdGFE
https://www.change.org/p/sadiq-khan...9YoY9ZGjN_t2Glb_UPO61ysXWHfvTKdz7_Y56p4yxdGFE
Stop the ULEZ expansion
- Thread starter Amateb953
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Stop the ULEZ expansion
What this about.. another french company building uk infrastructure.
London. Ultra low emission zone. At a guess
Basically banning older cars from driving in London and charging those not quite as old
Air pollution from vehicle emissions is a major cause of premature death. IMO the ULEZ should be welcomed by anyone who cares about their health, and that of their children. I'd support extending it to include everything inside the M25; I believe this is planned for 2021.
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So how many people LIVE in this area.
15 million?
15 million?
Y'know, I absolutely love "mucking about" with mechanical things. Trying to reawaken my older boy's Henry Hoover just now (actually really impressed with it's simplicity, might just buy one myself to replace the Electrolux if it packs in before I do!)
This thread has caused me to reflect upon the lunacy that is modern man's approach to his planet. I'm not a tree hugging wooly hat type but I did grow up in the Scottish Borders and our friends were farmers and country folk. We children would be outdoors almost from dawn to dusk. A bit "Railway Children-ish" but in 1950's clothing. There was even a local branch line (Gala to Selkirk) with real steam trains, which ran past the bottom of our bottom field! I learned to love the natural world and appreciate how a lot of it is so interdependent and needs to be to work. There were far fewer vehicles around. You could park anywhere with ease. Very occasionally my Mum would take us all into Edinburgh for the day so she could go round the big shops, Parking was never a problem you just parked at the kerbside - impossible today!
Thinking back to how things were then I look with despair at what we are doing to our planet today. Watching a Diesel train pulling out of Waverley accompanied by a massive plume of black exhaust which changed to blue as it disappeared. The sheer number of vehicles on the road today and the way we've arranged our lives so you can't work locally (for instance none of my children or their partners could easily get to work using public transport). Why are we all climbing into aircraft, cruise ships, etc, etc, to go on holiday? I'm as bad an offender as any! We run 2 cars because it's convenient, and drive miles across the city and local countryside to be there for grandchildren so their parents can drive miles away to their work. I have a collection of garden machinery - all IC engines and usually at least one "project". Now we hear that even the cows are causing pollution because there are too many of them emitting methane! Isn't it just that there are too many of us humans? We seem incapable of exercising self control (I can talk, with 3 children to my name!) and I'm sure we will not take any truly effective action until it's too late and our world is heading towards looking like J G Ballard's "Drowned World", by then It will be much too late.
This thread has caused me to reflect upon the lunacy that is modern man's approach to his planet. I'm not a tree hugging wooly hat type but I did grow up in the Scottish Borders and our friends were farmers and country folk. We children would be outdoors almost from dawn to dusk. A bit "Railway Children-ish" but in 1950's clothing. There was even a local branch line (Gala to Selkirk) with real steam trains, which ran past the bottom of our bottom field! I learned to love the natural world and appreciate how a lot of it is so interdependent and needs to be to work. There were far fewer vehicles around. You could park anywhere with ease. Very occasionally my Mum would take us all into Edinburgh for the day so she could go round the big shops, Parking was never a problem you just parked at the kerbside - impossible today!
Thinking back to how things were then I look with despair at what we are doing to our planet today. Watching a Diesel train pulling out of Waverley accompanied by a massive plume of black exhaust which changed to blue as it disappeared. The sheer number of vehicles on the road today and the way we've arranged our lives so you can't work locally (for instance none of my children or their partners could easily get to work using public transport). Why are we all climbing into aircraft, cruise ships, etc, etc, to go on holiday? I'm as bad an offender as any! We run 2 cars because it's convenient, and drive miles across the city and local countryside to be there for grandchildren so their parents can drive miles away to their work. I have a collection of garden machinery - all IC engines and usually at least one "project". Now we hear that even the cows are causing pollution because there are too many of them emitting methane! Isn't it just that there are too many of us humans? We seem incapable of exercising self control (I can talk, with 3 children to my name!) and I'm sure we will not take any truly effective action until it's too late and our world is heading towards looking like J G Ballard's "Drowned World", by then It will be much too late.
I to come from a time when vehicles were sparse on our roads. North east of Scotland was my tramping ground. My bicycle was my freedom when I was a lad & you could cycle for miles on some roads without meet any vehicle. Aye a wee bit of nostalgia there. Jocks fault for awaking the thoughts of yesteryear 
Jock is right of course, I suspect things regarding pollution will be too late by the time the powers that be, really start/try to come up with any real solution. Just by levering more money out of the cash cow motorist is not the answer. To be honest I'm just as selfish as the next person, I will be able to play with my toys up here, pretty much safe in the fact my time left will see little change in this neck of the woods. Happy trails...:devil:
Jock is right of course, I suspect things regarding pollution will be too late by the time the powers that be, really start/try to come up with any real solution. Just by levering more money out of the cash cow motorist is not the answer. To be honest I'm just as selfish as the next person, I will be able to play with my toys up here, pretty much safe in the fact my time left will see little change in this neck of the woods. Happy trails...:devil:
Don't know how far North your North East was Jim but I have some quite fond memories of the north east. The first boarding school I was packed off to was housed in an old castle just outside Auchenblae Kincardenshire. It was my first taste of the "military" way of living with a 6.00 am run every day and a cold plunge bath to follow - boy that really woke you up to face the day! We used to roam far and wide with supervised walks and cross country runs. Of course we all played Rugby, no sissy football for us! I think it was where my loathing of "team games" and "team spirit" was born. The Cairn o' mounth looms large in my memory!
Pfft, that's not the North, I was at boarding school in Aberlour. It's the Walkers head office now though. How times change!
On topic - population centres like London need things like the ULEZ to try to manage CO2 (and other harmful gasses) levels. I don't agree with the charge though, the public transport network needs improvements such that personal cars can just be outright banned from certain areas.
Like you mentioned earlier Jock, public transport has issues all across the country. I started with my current employer in 2010 when I lived in Huddersfield. We're based just out of town, but far enough off the beaten track that the bus service is sporadic at best and the nearest stop is about 1/2 mile from here. Not a long walk in the grand scheme, but still annoying. Since then, I've moved to York with my wife (she works there and earns a lot less than me) so I have to travel 94 miles a day, which would be a nightmare with public transport!
I suspect in the future this will all be a moot point, all cars will be electric and self driven and no-one will own a vehicle. We'll all use services like Uber to get us from place to place with some kind of monthly subscription or whatever ... once we're there, the car will pick someone else up and off it'll go on it's merry way. On demand public transport, the dream!
Aberdeen shire Jock, I had a strict upbringing, but when it was good it was great, if you know what I mean. Just to try & keep things on at least vehicle related terms, my Father,Grandfather,Uncles & mates Dads, were all helpful in my pursuit in the learning about the function of the internal combustion engine & other car related items. No doubt there will be the odd similar story today, but more often than not it is different. Apart from the fact that cars these days need specified tools/electronic equipment, your average family unit do not have the same members as was the case from decades ago. Missing are the male members who could help, but society seems to err on the side of not touching or interested in anything to do with four wheels.
So roughly the same neck of the woods Jim? I know just what you mean about strict upbringing. A structured life with strictly enforced rules. My backside was on more than a nodding acquaintance with my mother's slipper, headmaster's gym shoe and, twice, the games master's cane! Unthinkable now a days but what it did for me was teach me the limits of acceptable behaviour and to develop the self discipline to conform (or understand how not to be caught out if you decided not to "Sing from the acceptable hymn sheet") I think because it introduced certainty into my life, my childhood was actually very happy.
Last time I looked, Eklipze, my old school was a wedding venue!
Getting back, as you suggest Jim, to car related stuff, It was my (albeit mild) dislike of team games that led me to get more involved with the ACF (strange you may say, because that's a team "game" if ever there was one) but what it let me do was mess about with the transport instead of being on the games fields. We had an old 2nd WW 6 cylinder 4 WD side valve truck (like you often see in the old films) A couple of BSA side valve motorcycles and, sometimes, A ferret scout car. It was my introduction to preselector gears! I remember being surprised by the position of the steering wheel which was fixed to the underside of the cockpit front panel and demanded a whole new mindset, but the sound of that engine was glorious. It also introduced me, in a very disciplined way, to lethal weapons. We regularly went on the ranges with small bore .22's but also fired .303's, Sten's (I think they were 9mm) and even a Bren although we could seldom get enough rounds to fire the automatic weapons more than about once a year. You often hear "old farts" saying how much the youth of today would benefit from National Service. In some respects I would agree. I just missed National Service but the strict school regime and ACF (Royal Artillery) camps I attended really taught me how to behave and how to "look after" myself in the big wide world.
Your final comments I also would agree with. Neither of my boys seem interested enough to learn even the simplest things like brake pad changes or simple servicing. Neither are earning "big money" and could do with the savings - but no? My daughter, on the other hand, tends to be "gung ho" and will have a go but fails to engage the brain first. Got a call from her the other day (they're way down south) Dad, I drilled a hole in the wall and all the lights went out! what should I do? (I thought right away that she's gone through a cable) Where were you drilling? Just above, about a foot, the light switch in the kids room. OK, So now you know cabling usually runs vertically or horizontally. TURN THE MAINS OFF and use a Stanley knife to cut out a hole maybe 6" by 6" (it's drywall) and you will be able to see what's happened then ring me back. In the end her next door neighbour (electrician) sorted it all out for her as her Hubby was away on business. The hole, by the way, was for shelving. Thank the Lord for rcd's!
Some TV the other day said population of LONDON : 20 million
Population of Scotland..and Wales combined
I just cannot see why the world and its uncle want to 'be' in London.
My weekday station is 40 minutes from London Paddington.. you should see the cars there At 07:00 and 19:00.
Population of Scotland..and Wales combined
I just cannot see why the world and its uncle want to 'be' in London.
My weekday station is 40 minutes from London Paddington.. you should see the cars there At 07:00 and 19:00.
premature death.
i have a lot of elderly realities living right in the middle of London the ones who have died have been in their late 80s and 90's wouldn't call that premature death. some of the dead ones never had cars either so would spend a lot of time at the side of the road waiting for buses. its all a conspiracy to keep the poor off the roads
i have a lot of elderly realities living right in the middle of London the ones who have died have been in their late 80s and 90's wouldn't call that premature death. some of the dead ones never had cars either so would spend a lot of time at the side of the road waiting for buses. its all a conspiracy to keep the poor off the roads
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Ultra low or no emission vehicles (electric of some sort) are fantastic. BUT the energy has to come from somewhere. When all the losses between powerplant and road are added up the total energy costs are likely to be at least as bad as petrol. We also need the power grid infrastructure to charge everyone's cars. If that's being spent on connecting windmills that lie idle for 80% of the time we will never solve the problem.
Wind and solar power are a fine idea, but what happens when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing? And - they are VERY expensive to build. All any expensive energy source can ever do is displace cheap dirty coal to the third world. Those people have a right to clean water, sewerage, refridgeration for food machines to wash their clothes, etc. But can't afford the fancy expensive energy so will use what they can get. That will be coal.
There is no point in UK Europe and USA going green if everyone else is burning coal.
Denmark built enough wind turbines to reduce their electricity grid CO2 emissions by 12% - so they said. The power gaps were filled by gas fired plants so no supply problems. Unfortunately, that means running the gas plants inefficiently. The result was a national CO2 reduction of 3% or probably zero as that's within a statistical range of no change.
Nuclear is non CO2 emitting (if we ignore the massive amounts of concrete they need) but the plants we are currently building cost around 10x the cost of coal. There is no way they can compete.
There is however an intrinsically safe, low cost nuclear option that has been ignored for 50 years. It really can beat coal on costs with non of the problems that killed Fukushima or Chernobyl.
This discusses the relative costs.
Wind and solar power are a fine idea, but what happens when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing? And - they are VERY expensive to build. All any expensive energy source can ever do is displace cheap dirty coal to the third world. Those people have a right to clean water, sewerage, refridgeration for food machines to wash their clothes, etc. But can't afford the fancy expensive energy so will use what they can get. That will be coal.
There is no point in UK Europe and USA going green if everyone else is burning coal.
Denmark built enough wind turbines to reduce their electricity grid CO2 emissions by 12% - so they said. The power gaps were filled by gas fired plants so no supply problems. Unfortunately, that means running the gas plants inefficiently. The result was a national CO2 reduction of 3% or probably zero as that's within a statistical range of no change.
Nuclear is non CO2 emitting (if we ignore the massive amounts of concrete they need) but the plants we are currently building cost around 10x the cost of coal. There is no way they can compete.
There is however an intrinsically safe, low cost nuclear option that has been ignored for 50 years. It really can beat coal on costs with non of the problems that killed Fukushima or Chernobyl.
This discusses the relative costs.
Just watched the video Dave. Now that is interesting! Looks like this could save the planet? why don't we hear more about it?
remember when no one had diesel cars diesel was chap as chips, then half the county went diesel and its price went up. so be careful what you wish for when everyone has electric cars and the price rockets its the same electric we need for everything else too that is going to go up.
Erm! you don't have to be genius to work out when electric cars do eventually make a difference & the internal combustion engine is no longer, the government are going to collect money from somewhere...
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The situation with nuclear power annoys the wotsits out of me. We are spending a fortune on that massive white elephant in Somerset when we could have the same result for a fraction of the price.
Alvin Weinburg (one of the early nuclear experts) designed the Pressurised Water Reactor (PWR) for USA's original bomb manufacturing plant and the first nuke submarine. He also designed and operated a liquid fueled nuclear reactor at Oak Ridge Labs. Instead of using a solid ceramic oxide, the fuel is a salt which melts above 400C. The long list of hazards associated with solid nuclear fuels are done away with. The MSR is fundamentally safe and worked so well it became boring to operate. But was shut down in 1969. It was so forgotten that the left over part used unprocessed fuel nearly caused a nuclear accident. Improperly stored fissile material is always hazardous.
The military had paid the basic design costs for the PWR and Westinghouse had political backing so that's what we got. To be fair, the older plants were not silly money to build. Then we had the Three Mile Island melt-down and the costs of engineered systems to keep PWRs safe went ballistic.
Weinburg said the PWRs ideal when surrounded by water for emergency cooling and operated by experts under military discipline. He also said it's not really safe above 20 megawatts and certainly not a good idea for power utility scale operation. He was told that if he could not support nuclear power then maybe he should leave the industry.
Check out the stuff by Kirk Sorensen who used to work for NASA and discovered Weinburgs MSR records waiting to be scrapped. Also look at Moltex, a UK company who show great promise. Bryony Worthington is another great proponent for new nuclear. She is a green as green environmentalist who realised that low cost nuclear is our only option to fight global warming. It could even be used for sea water desalination. Water is an even bigger problem that lack of clean electrical power so the MSR can hit the issues from two directions.
Sorensen explains the advantages of MSR designs in his various vids. Some are just collections of iPhone videos but the information is there
Thorium is the ultimate nuke fuel as its plentiful (unlike uranium 235), not water soluble (unlike uranium) and can be chemically processed (unlike uranium). But for now, we need to get the new systems going. Uranium fuels are here now so that is what Moltex are doing. Their plant has been costed at cheaper to build than coal. They say the nuclear portion of their plant could be inflated three times and the overall plant cost would still beat coal. However, the UK regulators were so stuck on the hazards of PWRs, they were making safety demands for stuff the MSR does not even have (e.g. pressure vessels). Moltex moved to Canada where the regulatory system is a lot more sensible.
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Erm! you don't have to be genius to work out when electric cars do eventually make a difference & the internal combustion engine is no longer, the government are going to collect money from somewhere...
Electric cars are cheaper to build than IC engined cars and a lot cheaper to service. The batteries, while expensive, have to be bought in and sold on to the customer. No profit there for VWMercMW.
Electric cars will eventually kill the car industry so don't expect too many too quickly. Cue Elon Musk and Apple.
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