Technical Stop Start Story

[UFI]

Just got myself a scangauge2, looking forward to having some fun using it

OBD gauges aren't really 'accurate' and fluctuate wildly on cars without throttle plates (like a TA). My SGII is in my Renault for the moment, and I just plugged a Ultragauge into UFI (it had compatibility issues on the Renault). Best part is UG can read fuel level as a percentage directly off the sender Hopefully no more guess work.

For accuracy, I'll be adding an MPGuino, this needs to be wired to an injector and best of all will log how much fuel S/S saves.

 

[UFI]

Some posts are saying it is not a good idea to fit a larger capacity battery as it would take longer to recharge, this is only true if you take more out - as with any battery.

You leave out self depletion. A 60Ah depleting by 5% is less than a 120Ah depleting by the same 5%. To use the swimming pool analogy, a bigger pool looses more water despite the evaporation rate being the same.

As for Optima batteries, I wouldn't go there unless I was prepared to forgo S/S. The slight difference in chemistry could be enough to cause the common S/S tantrums.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

OBD gauges aren't really 'accurate' and fluctuate wildly on cars without throttle plates (like a TA). My SGII is in my Renault for the moment, and I just plugged a Ultragauge into UFI (it had compatibility issues on the Renault). Best part is UG can read fuel level as a percentage directly off the sender Hopefully no more guess work.

For accuracy, I'll be adding an MPGuino, this needs to be wired to an injector and best of all will log how much fuel S/S saves.

Interesting, TBH only got one for my Prius to a real life SOC indicator for the traction battery, and engine temp guage etc

 

[frupi]

Just got myself a scangauge2, looking forward to having some fun using it

I've owned one since 2007 and keep mine plugged into the OBD port all the time on my Saab. It does display some quite useful info and if you delve into the menu, you'll find various options you can display.

The only thing I've ever had to do with my Scangauge, is to send it away and have a new board put in it so it could be updated to the very latest firmware, cost £25. Just make sure your Scangauge is running firmware 4.05, but if you have bought it brand new, I suspect it is ok.

http://www.ukobd.co.uk/ScanGauge-Accessories/ScanGauge2-Firmware-Upgrade.html

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I've owned one since 2007 and keep mine plugged into the OBD port all the time on my Saab. It does display some quite useful info and if you delve into the menu, you'll find various options you can display.

The only thing I've ever had to do with my Scangauge, is to send it away and have a new board put in it so it could be updated to the very latest firmware, cost £25. Just make sure your Scangauge is running firmware 4.05, but if you have bought it brand new, I suspect it is ok.

http://www.ukobd.co.uk/ScanGauge-Accessories/ScanGauge2-Firmware-Upgrade.html

Its 2nd hand so will have to have a look, seems to do what I want out of the box regarding coolant temp and RPM though, so many features packed into it though! Need to have a sit-down and read of the instructions and see about setting it up for Prius specific features

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I've owned one since 2007 and keep mine plugged into the OBD port all the time on my Saab. It does display some quite useful info and if you delve into the menu, you'll find various options you can display.

The only thing I've ever had to do with my Scangauge, is to send it away and have a new board put in it so it could be updated to the very latest firmware, cost £25. Just make sure your Scangauge is running firmware 4.05, but if you have bought it brand new, I suspect it is ok.

http://www.ukobd.co.uk/ScanGauge-Accessories/ScanGauge2-Firmware-Upgrade.html

4.06

So is that better than 4.05?

 

[UFI]

4.06 is the latest version, I think, it's the one I have. Some older versions had trouble with the engine being turned off while the car was in motion.

You'll have to program XGauges to get the Prius specific stuff, luckily there's a big community to show you how

 

[frupi]

4.06

So is that better than 4.05?

View attachment 148670

Yup, you're lucky buying one second hand with the very latest firmware, hope you got it for a good price too.

Mine is at 4.05. I'm not bothering to have another firmware upgrade unless they make significant firmware changes to it, as I've already forked out 25 quid to have it upgraded from 3.0 something a couple of years back. The earlier link I provided, is the company that upgraded the firmware in my own Scangauge. Very quick service from what I remember. It was certainly worth my while at the time as it added many extra features to the unit which could only be done by replacing the board inside it.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

4.06 is the latest version, I think, it's the one I have. Some older versions had trouble with the engine being turned off while the car was in motion.

You'll have to program XGauges to get the Prius specific stuff, luckily there's a big community to show you how

Yes, lots on Prius Chat, need to set aside some time to have a good old play with the XGauges, I'm already pleased with just being able to see coolant temp (sad I know), its interesting to see it drop, and how quickly etc, when the engine has cut out in hybrid mode when I've the heater on etc.

Yup, you're lucky buying one second hand with the very latest firmware, hope you got it for a good price too.

Mine is at 4.05. I'm not bothering to have another firmware upgrade unless they make significant firmware changes to it, as I've already forked out 25 quid to have it upgraded from 3.0 something a couple of years back. The earlier link I provided, is the company that upgraded the firmware in my own Scangauge. Very quick service from what I remember. It was certainly worth my while at the time as it added many extra features to the unit which could only be done by replacing the board inside it.

Glad to hear mine has the latest software, a bargain imo then as it was only £77 delivered (eBay buy)

 

[Mercky]

So I charged the battery with my new 'Lidl' charger......very good piece of kit btw. It accepted a charge for about 2 hours and then I left it on a residual trickle over night. Yesterday I reconnected and drove around - took about 10 miles for system to relearn and lo and behold it returned to restarting after about 10 secs. This morning driving in to work it stopped ok at every set of lights but again restarted after 5 or 10 secs. It was zero degrees on the dash so I'm a bit suprised it kicked in at all - I thought it was programmed not to work at very low temps? So it seems the battery is knackered after 10 months from a SS point of view. I expected it to work ok after the charge at least for a few days so I'm quite suprised. What's unique about an SS battery - is it just the capacity?

My SS is worse since I charged the battery, it now restarts almost immediately after stopping! What's all that about?

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

My SS is worse since I charged the battery, it now restarts almost immediately after stopping! What's all that about?

It'll take a little while to relearn I've found, sisters Twinair was exactly the same at first, but now seems to be ok

 

[jrkitching]

My SS is worse since I charged the battery, it now restarts almost immediately after stopping! What's all that about?

IIRC it takes a few days for the car to relearn the battery parameters.

Edit: Ha Ha - MEP beat me to it!

 

[Mercky]

Thanks guys, funnily enough when I drove home from work after my last post it started working!! Fine all the way home and when I got home I let it sit and engine stayed off for 2.5 mins and that was with the climate on and 4 degs outside so its looking good. It took since Sunday to relearn though and I wouldn't have expected it to do the 5 second restart thing whilst doing so?? I'll see how it behaves over the next few days - it's going in for 12 month 10k service next week so if it acts up again in the meantime I'll be plugging for a new battery under warranty. I know I asked this before but I'm still unsure, is it ok to recharge battery with it fully connected? My gut says probably not a great idea, for my last charge I disconnected the neg and battery sensor but If I left connected maybe it would stop the relearn malarkey?

 

[jrkitching]

I know I asked this before but I'm still unsure, is it ok to recharge battery with it fully connected? My gut says probably not a great idea, for my last charge I disconnected the neg and battery sensor but If I left connected maybe it would stop the relearn malarkey?

Yes - but you need to connect between the positive terminal on the battery and the false negative post near the battery or (better) a solid earth on the car. Doing it this way allows the IBS to monitor the charging and should prevent the sort of malarkey you've been having.

Never connect a charger to a S/S 500 directly across the battery terminals with the battery connected or you risk ruining the Intelligent Battery Sensor and (unsurprisingly), they're not cheap.

When I took delivery of mine, the dealer gave me a sheet of A4 with this specific instruction on it and I had to sign a form to say I'd received and understood it, as apparently they'd had cars damaged by folks incorrectly connecting a charger. I'll have a look through my files & see if I can find it.

Edit: I've found it - I must be more organised than I thought.

 

[Mercky]

Yes - but you need to connect between the positive terminal on the battery and the false negative post near the battery or (better) a solid earth on the car. Doing it this way allows the IBS to monitor the charging and should prevent the sort of malarkey you've been having.

Never connect a charger to a S/S 500 directly across the battery terminals with the battery connected or you risk ruining the Intelligent Battery Sensor and (unsurprisingly), they're not cheap.

When I took delivery of mine, the dealer gave me a sheet of A4 with this specific instruction on it and I had to sign a form to say I'd received and understood it, as apparently they'd had cars damaged by folks incorrectly connecting a charger. I'll have a look through my files & see if I can find it.

Ok thanks, I get it but electrically speaking what's the difference between the false neg post or car body and the actual battery negative terminal - are they not one and the same effectively?

 

[jrkitching]

Ok thanks, I get it but electrically speaking what's the difference between the false neg post or car body and the actual battery negative terminal - are they not one and the same effectively?

No, the IBS sits between the false neg post & the battery negative terminal.

I'll take a picture for you when it's daylight tomorrow.

 

[Mercky]

No, the IBS sits between the false neg post & the battery negative terminal.

I'll take a picture for you when it's daylight tomorrow.

Cheers, I think though that the layout might be a bit different on a TA but I'll use a chassis point in the future if I have to charge again. The manual says that if jump starting you should use the chassis and NOT the neg terminal as a spark my cause ignition of battery gases!! Unlikely on a sealed battery. Doesent mention IBS but I can understand that it could be damaged. Hopefully I won't have to recharge for a while anyway!

 

[jrkitching]

Cheers, I think though that the layout might be a bit different on a TA but I'll use a chassis point in the future if I have to charge again. The manual says that if jump starting you should use the chassis and NOT the neg terminal as a spark my cause ignition of battery gases!! Unlikely on a sealed battery. Doesent mention IBS but I can understand that it could be damaged. Hopefully I won't have to recharge for a while anyway!

Unlikely but not impossible and not unknown. Even sealed batteries aren't completely sealed - there will be a microporous vent somewhere to allow internal and external pressures to equalise. All lead-acid batteries produce hydrogen and oxygen when charging; the main explosion risk from sparking is when disconnecting the jump leads, not when connecting.

Although I'd certainly agree it's unlikely, the consequences can be very serious.

There's a lot of instantly available power in a charged car battery; enough to burn a hole clean through the car bodywork. It makes sense to work in the safest way you can. The AA guide to jump starting is a handy reference, and sound advice.

As promised, underbonnet pictures showing the Remote Negative Post, and a close up of the IBS. There have been a few variations in the layout of the components over the years.

 

[Mercky]

As promised, underbonnet pictures showing the Remote Negative Post, and a close up of the IBS. There have been a few variations in the layout of the components over the years.

thanks JR, yes the TA is quite different, I'll have a good look on saturday in daylight. I'm sure its probably the same setup but I think the remote post and IBS are located elsewhere.

 

[UFI]

I keep UFI on charge when ever he's garaged, for the most part, S/S works immediately, but not always.