Technical Some questions about my Panda

[Aad Doix]

Dear Forum,

Got a few questions and knowing from the past a lot of knowledge and know-how can be found on British forums, so I, someone with to left hands and unfortunately fully right-handed, give it a try :

My Panda is a 2009 1.2 petrol 60bhp. It got a compression ration of 9.8 to 1 instead of the 9.5 to 1.
1) Does this mean it is not a non-interference engine anymore? (Both belts are replaced immediately when purchased)

2) And does its throttle body differ from the version with the lower compression or are those the same?

3) Because: when checking stock parts I saw that the throttle body could be 36mm but also 40mm (Nissens) in diameter. As far as I know my Panda has a Magnetti Marelli, so it is 36mm? And if yes: anyone know more about this or has experience with the larger throttle body on his Panda (or Punto)?

4) I also seem to remember that there is a version with a cable to the throttle body and a version without that cable. Is that correct?

5) With the information I read on this forum that this engine is limited on both inlet and exhaust I was wondering whether there are other parts responsible for the inlet limitation, for example the airbox (size or inside setup) or the airhose from grill to airbox?

6) And on the exhaust side, is it the exhaust / cat itself (quite small to be honest) or is it the exhaust manifold only responsible for the limitation. If so, a free flow silencer will do much then I think?

Thanks in advance for your reaction and kind regards,

Aad

 

[koalar]

Changing the throttle body, exhaust or inlet manifold will do absolutely nothing on a standard engine

Theres at least 3x 4x4 and dualogic, cable throttle, and everything else

Look through my old post on tuning, I posted a back to back rolling road of a 1.2 on a rolling road, standard exhaust then straight through no catalytic converter full race exhaust, about 4HP only at 6K rpm

If you want 130hp and have a few £10,000s spare, and don't mind loosing it's drivability

Yes it's possible, but start withe the head and camshafts


Far better and cheaper to drop in an engine transplant from the 100hp


By 2009 all panda engines are interference, that not to say any damage will be done if it snapped, plenty of people have hot away with it, engine temperature, engine revs, carbon build up


9,8 :1 is the standard compression post 2003

 

[varesecrazy]

Dear Forum,

Got a few questions and knowing from the past a lot of knowledge and know-how can be found on British forums, so I, someone with to left hands and unfortunately fully right-handed, give it a try :

My Panda is a 2009 1.2 petrol 60bhp. It got a compression ration of 9.8 to 1 instead of the 9.5 to 1.

Thanks in advance for your reaction and kind regards,

Aad

Hi and welcome,

I see member Koalar is typing..

Can you post a photo of your engine..? That will help (several visible differences)

 

[Aad Doix]

Both, thanks for your replies! I will go through those posts. Of course is looking for a possibility to get a little more power the main reason I post these questions ( I was especially surprised by the narrow size of the exhaust) but I am not that interested in fully tuning this engine (although there are very nice parts available like turbo conversionkits, camshafts et cetera), because tuning NA is always very expensive and not that profitable as I understood.

Kind regards,

Aad

 

[varesecrazy]

Rotrex Supercharger looked interesting

 

[jrkitching]

Of course is looking for a possibility to get a little more power

Forget it; this has been analysed to death in various posts over the years and the conclusion is that there are no meaningful power gains to be had from the 60HP 1.2 without spending a LOT of money and ruining the everyday driveability of the car. By far the cheapest and easiest way to get more power is to buy something else.

The big plus point of the 60HP 1.2 is its bottom end torque; it'll pull away smoothly from anything above 25mph in top gear, something the later 69HP 1.2 can't do so well. This makes it a very comfortable car to drive in urban traffic. It also makes it just about the most economical and fuel efficient petrol car you can buy.

The 60HP 1.2 Panda is a great car, one of the best in its class. Enjoy it for what it is, and it'll serve you very well indeed. Try to turn it into something it's not, and you'll likely be disappointed.

 

[koalar]

The restrictions is in the head and cam timing

Until this has been addressed, inlet and exhaust will do very little

There isn't a bolt on solution, except forced induction but that's not cheap either

Heres a full decat so not road legal, each vertical line is 4bhp so nothing that could be felt and in all honesty it within the tolerance of the rolling road, even worse these power runs are at full throttle

 

[Aad Doix]

Here 2 images of my engine, and silly me, looked underneath the airbox and there it was, the cable from accelerator to throttle body ....

 

[Aad Doix]

The restrictions is in the head and cam timing

Until this has been addressed, inlet and exhaust will do very little

There isn't a bolt on solution, except forced induction but that's not cheap either

Heres a full decat so not road legal, each vertical line is 4bhp so nothing that could be felt and in all honesty it within the tolerance of the rolling road, even worse these power runs are at full throttle




View attachment 466184

The graph says it all. No problem, then I know it is a no go and I will enjoy the quiet, smooth running culture between 1500 and 3500 rpm and I got some other things to think about, but that is for another topic

 

[rmjbn1]

By 2009 all panda engines are interference

Hi koalar, not sure if this was a typo?

It was my understanding that interference engines were only the later 69hp VVT, introduced in the Panda some time around 2010?

Non-VVT 60hp engines are 'safe' non-interference.

 

[koalar]

Nope not a typo

only a few 2003 are true freewheeling

That's according to fiat and autodata only list one Panda engine as freewheeling and that's the pre 2533527 1.1

Internet has made assumptions because normally there's no damage

However to be classed as truly freewheeling there to be a little clearance to allow for, expansion, stretch, bearing clearance and so on