General Shift indicators

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General Shift indicators

tommus

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Are these for real??? They're ridiculous! Started going up quite a steep hill in 2nd then shifted up to 3rd (without it telling me to) then straight away the indicator came on to shift up to 4th which I did and nearly came to a halt with the engine juddering away obviously really laboured! Surely that's not right?
It's a twin air by the way.
 
I found the same with mine. (n)

I found that the car was extremely sensitive to throttle position, eg. If I was travelling at 30mph in 4th and the car started to labour slightly if I eased off the accelerator very slightly the gear change indicator would suggest I change up to 5th. :confused:

Definitely best to drive naturally using your experience IMHO.
 
I would agree with the above. Maybe driving a TA is totally different to a 'normal' engine but surely driving to get maximum economy is not going to do an engine any good if it is labouring. If you work out the maths, an engine with a longer life will easily make up for the extra 3mpg or whatever to the gallon or does it ? :eek:
 
I would agree with the above. Maybe driving a TA is totally different to a 'normal' engine but surely driving to get maximum economy is not going to do an engine any good if it is labouring. If you work out the maths, an engine with a longer life will easily make up for the extra 3mpg or whatever to the gallon or does it ? :eek:

I suspect even the most ardent ecodriver would agree with that. On the 1.2 I sometimes hold a lower gear when going up steeper hills to protect the engine. I'm finding the engine's flexibility improves quite a bit as it runs in & I'd allow a little more leeway with the 'arrows' when it's brand new.
 
I never understood how the engine would improve with running in, aren't new engines run in on the bench ?

They're run - but it takes a good few hundred miles of driving (through various conditions) to fully loosen up and run most efficiently. The bottom end/bearings take little more than 50 miles to do this, but to get a good seal on the bores/rings, it can take a good few hundred miles.
 
They're run - but it takes a good few hundred miles of driving (through various conditions) to fully loosen up and run most efficiently. The bottom end/bearings take little more than 50 miles to do this, but to get a good seal on the bores/rings, it can take a good few hundred miles.

Based on my experience I'd say a good few thousand miles for the 1.2.
 
They're run - but it takes a good few hundred miles of driving (through various conditions) to fully loosen up and run most efficiently. The bottom end/bearings take little more than 50 miles to do this, but to get a good seal on the bores/rings, it can take a good few hundred miles.

More like a few thousand miles. Our Panda at 7000 miles is now noticeably freer than our 500 at 3500.

I remember some years ago BP were researching a new fuel & were looking within the company for volunteers for a study. In order not to influence the results by including cars not yet run in, they specified a minimum of 6000 miles for anyone wishing to participate.

Remember too that it's not just the engine that needs to be run in - it applies in some degree to all the moving parts of the car.

(Sorry Zanes - you got there first!)
 
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I would agree with the above. Maybe driving a TA is totally different to a 'normal' engine but surely driving to get maximum economy is not going to do an engine any good if it is labouring. If you work out the maths, an engine with a longer life will easily make up for the extra 3mpg or whatever to the gallon or does it ? :eek:

I've only driven one for a short distance (when I test drove a TA yesterday), but my feeling is that because it's a twin cylinder, it will always feel quite 'lumpy' when lugging low down compared to a 4, 6 or 8 cylinder engine.

The reason, say, a V6 feels so smooth and refined is not necessarily because of balancing issues (which the TA has a balance shaft to try and achieve good primary balance), but because of the number of firing impulses per rotation of the crank and whether they overlap or not, the TA has very distinct firing pulses which makes it feel like it's jiggling around in the engine bay.

Don't forget the multi-air system also means that on light throttle opens, the valves aren't being opened much (this is how the engine is throttled), so there's not much air being induced and compressed in the cylinders and thus there isn't a great 'bang' on each firing stroke, so the engine feels quite smooth. When you put it under quite a lot of load, the throttle opening is greater which with multi-air means the inlet valves are being opened more, which means more air is induced/compressed and thus a bigger firing stroke.

I think we'll all get used to engines with less cylinders as time goes by - coming from a succession of cars with 4 or more cylinders, I was pleasantly surprised and really impressed with the twin air, it just takes a different style of driving. Great fun though!
 
I would agree with all the above and in particular jrkitching re the performance improving at 7k.
There is a lot of threads on other forums and I don't wish to quote them but giving an engine a good thrashing fairly early on it's life helps the long term life of the engine. If I find the web link I'll post it later on this evening (providing I'm not going off topic). I would also add that changing the oil after Nuburgring (unlikely there would be many TA drivers there :)) or a 2 hour blast on the red line in the wee hours of the morning in the middle of nowhere might also warrant an oil change on a newish engine.
 
I would agree with all the above and in particular jrkitching re the performance improving at 7k.
There is a lot of threads on other forums and I don't wish to quote them but giving an engine a good thrashing fairly early on it's life helps the long term life of the engine. If I find the web link I'll post it later on this evening (providing I'm not going off topic). I would also add that changing the oil after Nuburgring (unlikely there would be many TA drivers there :)) or a 2 hour blast on the red line in the wee hours of the morning in the middle of nowhere might also warrant an oil change on a newish engine.

Totally agree, it's not just a thrashing though - it's controlled thrashing ;)

But yes, you want to allow the bottom end (bearings) to bed in, and then get the load and revs varying a LOT to help bed in the rings, slogging along at low revs/high load or idling lots is a sure way to end up with glazed bores and rings and trouble later on in an engines life.

I've built and run in a good few engines, and they really do respond well to lots of fluctuating revs/load when being bedded in. Sometimes you have to be quite violent/ruthless to achieve the best ring seal (and better performance).
 
I would also add that changing the oil after Nuburgring (unlikely there would be many TA drivers there :)) or a 2 hour blast on the red line in the wee hours of the morning in the middle of nowhere might also warrant an oil change on a newish engine.

I'd second that, but then I don't need much excuse to do an oil change.

We all know that the engine frees up over the first few thousand miles, and most of the microscopic bits that were making it stiff end up in the oil & filter - plus you will inevitably get more exhaust gases blowing past the piston rings during the running in period, which also contaminates the oil.

Running a new engine to 18000 miles on the original factory fill is, IMO, a dubious practice, however good the oil may be. I'd recommend an oil & filter change at 6000 miles on any new car.
 
Jr, you make some good points.what you mention about all parts needing to be run in also applies to warming up too. In winter in the winter I don't let the car stand idling to warm up as this doesn't warm up wheel bearings, your CV joints and gearbox. Plus the engine warms up far more quickly and wears less if you just start up and drive away.
 
Plus the engine warms up far more quickly and wears less if you just start up and drive away.

That is good advice, and I remember being told exactly the same thing when I started driving 40 years ago. For that reason, whenever possible I park so that I can drive straight off, without having to shunt the car about.

One thing I think we could do with in the UK is a sump heater - did I notice this was an option on the US 500's?
 
Or unless you want the heater to be functional as soon as you get in the car. We're quite lucky down south with the milder climate plus the car is always garaged but if one was an option the wife would definitely want it.
 
Or unless you want the heater to be functional as soon as you get in the car. We're quite lucky down south with the milder climate plus the car is always garaged but if one was an option the wife would definitely want it.

You better hope it doesn't become an option.......
 
Re these shift indicators, I totally agree that they are daft.

Our daughter is currently learning on our TA and she noticed the message on the dash.

I had to tell her that it was a suggestion rather than an instruction!
 
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