General Shift indicators

[DraigFlag87]

I'm pretty sure the GSI can be turned off in the menu if it annoys you. Despite it telling you to shift gears at such low speeds, it's actually very clever, it knows the minimum speed the car can do in each gear without labouring the engine, and it also takes into account the engine temperature so you will see it tell you to change gear at higher revs when the engine is cold to warm it up quicker.

Going up hills? Well the car can't detect that, it's basing it's "suggestions" on the speed etc, it's up to you to spot the hills!

If i follow the GSI in non-sport mode in the A500, i'll be in 5th by 30 but the engine is fine, despite the revs being only 1500 RPM.

 

[multispoke]

Totally agree, it's not just a thrashing though - it's controlled thrashing

But yes, you want to allow the bottom end (bearings) to bed in, and then get the load and revs varying a LOT to help bed in the rings, slogging along at low revs/high load or idling lots is a sure way to end up with glazed bores and rings and trouble later on in an engines life.

I've built and run in a good few engines, and they really do respond well to lots of fluctuating revs/load when being bedded in. Sometimes you have to be quite violent/ruthless to achieve the best ring seal (and better performance).

As promised the URL supporting bgunn's input...

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Well aboard bgunn. It's good to get a bit of fresh blood (I genuinely mean that) in the forum and particularily someone to knows what they're talking about.

To keep this on topic... having a well broken in engine might mean that you'll be able to change gear when the shift indicator tells you to

 

[bgunn]

As promised the URL supporting bgunn's input...

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Well aboard bgunn. It's good to get a bit of fresh blood (I genuinely mean that) in the forum and particularily someone to knows what they're talking about.

To keep this on topic... having a well broken in engine might mean that you'll be able to change gear when the shift indicator tells you to

Thanks You'll probably see a lot more of me in here, I'll soon be placing an order for a TA Lounge, and will definitely be running the engine in that way. And definitely doing an early oil change on it too - no way will I let it eat itself on manky oil..

 

[306maxi]

I'm pretty sure the GSI can be turned off in the menu if it annoys you. Despite it telling you to shift gears at such low speeds, it's actually very clever, it knows the minimum speed the car can do in each gear without labouring the engine, and it also takes into account the engine temperature so you will see it tell you to change gear at higher revs when the engine is cold to warm it up quicker.

Going up hills? Well the car can't detect that, it's basing it's "suggestions" on the speed etc, it's up to you to spot the hills!

If i follow the GSI in non-sport mode in the A500, i'll be in 5th by 30 but the engine is fine, despite the revs being only 1500 RPM.

I suspect that it's quite possible that the system employed in the Abarth and that with a twinair is setup a bit differently. I would have thought that it would take into account the load on the engine by doing some maths with the throttle position and the speed of the car so as not to ask you to shift up which then causes the engine to labour. But that's just me making an assumption

 

[RogerWilco]

From what I remember of the test drive the GSI is different in Eco to 'normal'.
Doesn't the GSI show what is best for economy whilst in Eco, whereas it shows what is best for performance in 'normal'?

 

[306maxi]

Thanks You'll probably see a lot more of me in here, I'll soon be placing an order for a TA Lounge, and will definitely be running the engine in that way. And definitely doing an early oil change on it too - no way will I let it eat itself on manky oil..

I originally planned to get an early oil change done on my 1.2 but could never get it booked in at a convenient time so I think it ended up doing 15-16k miles on the original oil. At that stage the oil was kind of the colour of slightly dark maple syrup and tbh the car felt no better with new oil in it. I've had cars before where a simple change of oil and filters makes it feel like a new car, but there was quite literally no difference.

Now I know that's not exactly scientific, but on that basis I don't necessarily think that on a modern car that changing the oil early is a must do like it was in the past. That said it's a good thing to change oil early, especially if you're doing lots of short journeys.

 

[bgunn]

I'll be changing the oil myself..

 

[306maxi]

I'll be changing the oil myself..

I would have too if I'd had somewhere safe to do it. No driveway and a road which curves and slopes out the front of the house isn't condusive to changing oil sadly.

 

[jrkitching]

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Without wishing to take sides on this one be aware that the link seems to refer to motorcycle engines, which typically are aircooled, high revving and have narrower power bands than watercooled car engines. Aircooled engines by necessity are designed with greater clearances & are more prone to blowby, particularly when they are warming up.

 

[bgunn]

Without wishing to take sides on this one be aware that the link seems to refer to motorcycle engines, which typically are aircooled, high revving and have narrower power bands than watercooled car engines. Aircooled engines by necessity are designed with greater clearances & are more prone to blowby, particularly when they are warming up.

Hmm, you'll probably find that most medium to large bike engines are water cooled these days.

There's a fairly constant and circular argument for and against the sorts of techniques given in articles like this, but I have seen the results with my own eyes and it does, in my opinion, work.

 

[multispoke]

Without wishing to take sides on this one be aware that the link seems to refer to motorcycle engines, which typically are aircooled, high revving and have narrower power bands than watercooled car engines. Aircooled engines by necessity are designed with greater clearances & are more prone to blowby, particularly when they are warming up.

That's no problem JR. There are better examples out there but it would mean 'lifting' them another forum - I didn't want to do that. Anyway you get the jist.

 

[306maxi]

Hmm, you'll probably find that most medium to large bike engines are water cooled these days.

There's a fairly constant and circular argument for and against the sorts of techniques given in articles like this, but I have seen the results with my own eyes and it does, in my opinion, work.

I think to properly judge things you need to have two identical engines which were run in differently, but had the same workload over their life.

I ran my car gently for the first few hundred miles and gradually increased the revs and never let it sit for minute upon minute at the same RPM and after a while I gave it gradually more and more revs.

 

[TrevC]

I agree that it's best to avoid changing when the shift indicators say so. However, as I've mentioned on other threads, the TA pulls more smoothly from low revs when in ECO mode. Presumably this is because the power and torque reduction caused by the re-map means that each firing has less energy, so reduces the juddering. I tend to press the ECO button when driving round town in 30 and 40mph limits. My experience on open roads is that restraint of the right foot does far more for economy than the button!

 

[DraigFlag87]

I suspect that it's quite possible that the system employed in the Abarth and that with a twinair is setup a bit differently. I would have thought that it would take into account the load on the engine by doing some maths with the throttle position and the speed of the car so as not to ask you to shift up which then causes the engine to labour. But that's just me making an assumption

It's the same principle, non-Sport on the A500 tells you when to shift for optimum economy (same as ECO mode on the TA) and in Sport mode, it tells you to shift up for better performance (or in the case of the A500, to stop you redlining the car!) I can actually see/feel similarities in the engines, probably due to the turbocharged characteristics. I have driven both remember therefore avoiding the rule of assumption!

 

[grimwau]

Thanks You'll probably see a lot more of me in here, I'll soon be placing an order for a TA Lounge, and will definitely be running the engine in that way. And definitely doing an early oil change on it too - no way will I let it eat itself on manky oil..

I'll be changing the oil myself..

Just a word of warning, although with most oils you can choose from a selection of brands with the same viscosity ratings and be OK, you need to remember that the TwinAir was developed from scratch as the first engine designed to use the MultiAir system and low friction components.

Because the solenoids for the MA operate using engine oil I would advise that you buy only the Selenia oil reccommended for that engine or else you could end up having problems with fuel consumption and tractability as well as the warranty on the engine being voided.

D4nny8oy has already stated that in the event of an engine problem with TA engines, FPT will ask the dealer to submit a sample of the engine oil for testing BEFORE allowing any warranty claims.

Another word of warning (to all TA owners) is not to assume that when you take your car in for a service that they will use the correct oil, mine didn't, so always check to make sure and ask for the bottle with the remainder of the oil, which should be just over 1LTR (if they use the 2LTR bottles) to be left in the boot and agree to pay for 4ltrs.

 

[bgunn]

Just a word of warning, although with most oils you can choose from a selection of brands with the same viscosity ratings and be OK, you need to remember that the TwinAir was developed from scratch as the first engine designed to use the MultiAir system and low friction components.

Because the solenoids for the MA operate using engine oil I would advise that you buy only the Selenia oil reccommended for that engine or else you could end up having problems with fuel consumption and tractability as well as the warranty on the engine being voided.

D4nny8oy has already stated that in the event of an engine problem with TA engines, FPT will ask the dealer to submit a sample of the engine oil for testing BEFORE allowing any warranty claims.

Another word of warning (to all TA owners) is not to assume that when you take your car in for a service that they will use the correct oil, mine didn't, so always check to make sure and ask for the bottle with the remainder of the oil, which should be just over 1LTR (if they use the 2LTR bottles) to be left in the boot and agree to pay for 4ltrs.

I'll be using the Selenia oil (or a better equivalent as per its specs). I've owned a succession of Rover VVC engines which use oil to control the variable valve timing, and rely on known viscosity at known temps, it's a similar type of thing.

Good point, well made though!

 

[306maxi]

Another word of warning (to all TA owners) is not to assume that when you take your car in for a service that they will use the correct oil, mine didn't, so always check to make sure and ask for the bottle with the remainder of the oil, which should be just over 1LTR (if they use the 2LTR bottles) to be left in the boot and agree to pay for 4ltrs.

All the more reason to do as I do and buy the correct parts yourself and supply them to the dealer. That way you know it's all be done right.

 

[Hoggleboggle]

The gear shift indicator on mine is generally ok, but it wants me to shift into 5th at 30mph which drops the revs to below 1300. If I slow down a fraction below 30 the whole car shudders. Totally useless recommendation if you ask me.