General servicing at 25,000

[heanoid]

in my 1.2 dynamics service book it says at 25,000 miles that the valves need checking along with a plug change as i haven,t had a car this modern before, (bikes are my thing..but don't get me wrong i love my panda) and i do all the simple maintenance myself should i get the valves seen to at this milage,they can do the plugs as well while its in, are they hydraulic on pandas.. no manuel yet. also what about oil read on the site about using the italian stuff, whats wrong with mobil one or such like better to flush through first........comments appreciated

 

[ivantate]

I wouldnt worry about using the Selenia oil as you will not get this at a dealer service. I bought my last oil from the dealer and they gave some £15 for 4.5litres oil (cant remember the name at the moment) and when questioned about it they insisted that is what they used for service.
I have a Fiat receipt for the parts clearly stating it is not the Selenia as recommended.

For the valves Fiat use a shim system on the 1100 and 1200, not sure whether this applies the to lastest 1200 in the 500 but I imagine so. It is a good idea to get the clearances checked, if they are open it will only get a bit noisy but if they close about you may burn a valve out. You can check them in about half an hour if you have a 10mm socket and a feeler gauge.
My old Seicento had noisy valves from 12000miles but didnt get any better or worse until I eventually checked it at 44000miles. ( I was waiting for a bigger problem to be the inspiration to put the 1200 engine in that I had for it)

Surprised you havent had to check the valve clearances on a bike before, all the one I have owned so far have needed this doing at 15-20000miles.

 

[doctorchris]

The valve clearances need to be checked which is easy for an old hand like me since this was a common service procedure on older cars but may not be easy for yourself especially without the required data from a workshop manual.
The valves are not hydraulically controlled, if they were then they would not need adjusting. Plugs are easy but I recommend a torque wrench for tightening.
However, any reliable independent garage could do these procedures for you quite cheaply.
Oil, well this is an area of great debate on this forum. Mobil 1 is a fully synth 0W-40 oil and is an unecessary luxury for your Panda. I believe that any reputable semi-synth 10W-40 oil will be perfectly adequate. I have found Havoline at Morrisons petrol stations to be particularly good value. Others choose to stick to Italian branded oils, I believe these are expensive and offer no great advantage. Each to his own.
No need to use a flushing oil at oil changes. Just an expensive waste.
Manual, well you can get a CD from eBay which is adequate at best but Haynes have no intention of producing anything yet.

 

[Cian]

dealers in Ireland anyway seem to use solely Shell Helix and not Selenia; never even seen Selenia on sale in one... basically you do not need to worry about it; any decent quality 10W40 (1.1/1.2) or 5W40 (1.4) will do.

 

[heanoid]

i have checked valves on all the bikes i have owned (22) and still counting except my two yamahas 20,000 and 25,000 mile intervals it seems easy on bikes...tank off rocker cover off check valves go to pub!!! car makers seem to take great delight in making it as hard as possible with a load of gubbins having to be removed before the job can even start, my worry is if a local garage does the job, how do you KNOW they have really done it !! thanks for the replies

 

[thuraja]

Interesting, would anybody know the valve clearances for the 1.2 dynamic and if the 'rule of 9' adjustment procedure, still stands in these modern engines. Haven't had to adjust any valves in ages now. I have not noticed any noice increase on mine but I would feel safer after checking them out.

 

[ivantate]

On the seicento there was very little to take off to get to the valves and I think the panda will be similar (not looked under the bonnet of a petrol one though) and then the practical side of it still applies.

The rule of nine still applies as these basically still the same as any engine built in the 60s. Bar the cambelt and the alloy head.

If you do a search you will find the clearances on the forum somewhere, might take some finding but they are there. Otherwise someone with a Haynes manual will be able to find them straight off.


The biggest problem is when the valves actually need adjusting, it is nowhere near as simple as the old A-series Mini I have at home which is a 7/16" spanner and flat screwdriver. For the Fiat you need to measure the cam clearance and if incorrect then remove the cam follower and check the shim underneath. There will be a measurement on the shim and you can then go and get a new part from Fiat with the correct amount added or subtracted. I have heard of some Volvo ones that fit and also people go to the local machine shop to get some made of the correct dimensions. Getting the proper ones helps you out for the next time or the next person who needs to do it. The only problem being if it is your only transport you will have to reassemble it to go and get the parts.
The shims can be removed without removing the cam, I used two flat screwdrivers as levers to wriggle the parts out, one to push the cup that the follower sits in down and the other to flick the follower out. Beneath this you will find the shim.

There is a reasonable tolerance on the measurements too so they dont have to be precise, it is sometimes best to leave it and check at the next interval. The theory behind this is the valve wears into the head at the same speed the cam/follower wear. In the UK with good fuel, reasonable temperatures and quality oil (even the cheap stuff) there should be minimal wear.


In the bikes vs cars comment I would do the panda valves anytime over the ones in my Suzuki SV1000 which are coming up in a few thousand miles. The rear head is under the seat/tank support, has a load of emissions related pipe work in the way and the main bike wiring. The front isnt much better and really needs the radiator removing to do a proper job.

 

[ycming]

On the seicento there was very little to take off to get to the valves and I think the panda will be similar (not looked under the bonnet of a petrol one though) and then the practical side of it still applies.

The rule of nine still applies as these basically still the same as any engine built in the 60s. Bar the cambelt and the alloy head.

If you do a search you will find the clearances on the forum somewhere, might take some finding but they are there. Otherwise someone with a Haynes manual will be able to find them straight off.


The biggest problem is when the valves actually need adjusting, it is nowhere near as simple as the old A-series Mini I have at home which is a 7/16" spanner and flat screwdriver. For the Fiat you need to measure the cam clearance and if incorrect then remove the cam follower and check the shim underneath. There will be a measurement on the shim and you can then go and get a new part from Fiat with the correct amount added or subtracted. I have heard of some Volvo ones that fit and also people go to the local machine shop to get some made of the correct dimensions. Getting the proper ones helps you out for the next time or the next person who needs to do it. The only problem being if it is your only transport you will have to reassemble it to go and get the parts.
The shims can be removed without removing the cam, I used two flat screwdrivers as levers to wriggle the parts out, one to push the cup that the follower sits in down and the other to flick the follower out. Beneath this you will find the shim.

There is a reasonable tolerance on the measurements too so they dont have to be precise, it is sometimes best to leave it and check at the next interval. The theory behind this is the valve wears into the head at the same speed the cam/follower wear. In the UK with good fuel, reasonable temperatures and quality oil (even the cheap stuff) there should be minimal wear.


In the bikes vs cars comment I would do the panda valves anytime over the ones in my Suzuki SV1000 which are coming up in a few thousand miles. The rear head is under the seat/tank support, has a load of emissions related pipe work in the way and the main bike wiring. The front isnt much better and really needs the radiator removing to do a proper job.

Nopey , the 8v is shimmed, the so called rule of 9, applies to OHV engines with tappets

Ming

 

[Andi9386]

In other words Ming????

Translate into easy language for me plz.

 

[doctorchris]

From the eLearn CD:

Inlet valve clearance 0.3-0.4mm

Outlet valve clearance 0.4-0.5mm

As this engine has a single overhead camshaft there is no rule of 9s. Check the clearance with the pointy bit of the cam pointing directly upwards.

OK, you ask, which valve is inlet and which outlet. I dunno. You will just have to work it out from the way things look or from the clearance measurements you are getting.

 

[ivantate]

True, must have slept a bit since doing it. I did them in no particular order with the lobe pointing vertically. Cant remember whether a cold or warm engine is recommended.

In theory (and totally pointless as you can see when the cam is vertical) this is a fairly standard 4-cyl engine and I assume the firing order is 1342. In this way would you not just number the cam lobes for the rule of 9 rather than the rockers?

Either way its still a pain to adjust them if they need it.

 

[ScoobyChris]

I wouldnt worry about using the Selenia oil as you will not get this at a dealer service.

I suspect this depends on the dealer. Pewshams use Selenia and still manage to offer reasonable prices - my 24k service is Monday and I've been quoted £203 quid all in

Chris

 

[ycming]

True, must have slept a bit since doing it. I did them in no particular order with the lobe pointing vertically. Cant remember whether a cold or warm engine is recommended.

In theory (and totally pointless as you can see when the cam is vertical) this is a fairly standard 4-cyl engine and I assume the firing order is 1342. In this way would you not just number the cam lobes for the rule of 9 rather than the rockers?

Either way its still a pain to adjust them if they need it.

Hmm correct that you would do the cylinder in 1342 order, no but need, as long as the cam lobe is point upwards then u just stick a feeler guage in their and check the gap so no rule needed.

where the OHV engines need a rule of 9, because you can't see the cam.

Hmm to adjust them you have just enough space to wedge the shims out to replace

All assuming we are talking about the FIRE 8v engine.

Ming