Technical Sei Gear Box Issues?

[ronnieronson]

Ok, after much investigation, and changing a vast amount of parts etc, I've finally come to some conclusions about the running of my car.

*She doesn't like second gear at anything more than about 15mph (Especially downchanges).

*Every gear feels like its wrong - 2nd feels like 1st, 3rd like 2nd etc.
This is most apparent when trying to do 30 in third- feels like it's topping out revs wise (according to the gauge it's doing about 3.5k).
Also very noticeable at 40mph in 4th, and 60mph+ in fifth.

Things I've done:
changed TDC, sparks, leads, reset ecu, adjusted clutch, changed gearbox oil.

Things on my list:
Change Map Sensor, check brakes for binding.

Other than that I can only think that either my clutch, or my gearbox has had it - it's odd though, as changing up is fine and acceleration is good until 60mph when I seem to hit this huuuuge flat spot (which incidentally seems to occur in all gears at approx 3.5k).

Garage have said it drives fine - but it just doesn't feel right to me.

My old 899cc cinq would see 60mph in 3rd at a push, and didn't start breaking a sweat until about 75mph in 5th, with no flat spots!
Just seems really odd that my cinq felt like it had so much more poke!

 

[fingers99]

Timing.

 

[ronnieronson]

Timing.

could this be perhaps a result of a hasty rebuild post HG replacement?

cheers for the input fingers - had considered timing area (meant to elaborate in my first post on the whole crank sensor bit).

Will get my garage to look into it further

 

[fingers99]

Could well be: doesn't sound to me to be gearbox: if the revs were not reading low I'd think of clutch slip, but then the revs would be through the roof (or there would be the sort of rev lurch the EVO turbos used to give before everyone fitted Stilo clutches).

 

[ronnieronson]

like I say, gearbox seems fine, and clutch is nice and responsive.
She'll rev for england if you push her - just seems to peak in terms of forward motion a little too quickly for each gear.

Did originally only notice it doing 60mph in 5th gear, but have driven a lot of varied roads / terrain, in the last week - and it became a huge problem on some of the tighter winding roads where I knew I should really be in third, but the car wanted to be in fourth.

My old 899 bombed round some crazy roads when we went up to Scotland, negotiating some of the more mental bends at a consistent 35mph in 2nd - so it seemed odd when I started to realise that Zoe likes 3rd for 20-30, and 4th for anything upward of that.

Will get the timing checked out though

 

[ronnieronson]

Ok, timing has been checked out - absolutely spot on.

The garage seem to think that mechanically the car is 100% - but have agreed that she feels a little flat (as per the gearing / speeds I pointed out earlier).

I suggested MAP sensor to them, and they said that it could be if my car had one - but apparently the MPI's don't????

I was under the impression that it was combined with the AIT on the fuel rail?

 

[Smiler121]

I'm sure somebody said that the Mpi does have a MAP sensor?

 

[ronnieronson]

I'm sure somebody said that the Mpi does have a MAP sensor?

well that's as I understand https://www.fiatforum.com/cinq-sei-technical/137214-mpi-sei-map-sensor-where-earth.html

 

[fingers99]

Of course it has a MAP sensor. Who are these idiots? :bang:

 

[ronnieronson]

Of course it has a MAP sensor. Who are these idiots? :bang:

woodcocks "fiat specialists" in Hull.

Have always been pretty happy with the work theyve done, but I'm losing faith now.... especially seeing as they also tried to pin the car's lack of performance on the induction kit???

Anyone know of a decent fiat knowledgeable garage near hull?

 

[FIREsporting]

It does have a MAP sensor mate

 

[randomizered]

OMG, take your car somewhere else...seriously! If they are specialists and don't know that, i'd hate to see them work on a non-specialty car

 

[ronnieronson]

OMG, take your car somewhere else...seriously! If they are specialists and don't know that, i'd hate to see them work on a non-specialty car

lol, tell me about it.

Like I say - historically I've been nothing but happy with the work they've carried out, but considering recent events I'm not too keen to go back.

I've thought about the way the car feels to drive - and the closest description I can give you guys is that it feels slightly starved of fuel.... the revs are there, and the power is there in short bursts, but does feel starved when cruising at consistent speeds in certain gears.. it's really odd

 

[ronnieronson]

***update***

Well, changed the Map and Ait sensors over, and the idle is a fair bit calmer, she does have more poke, but still feels a bit off.

What is really strange is that the downchanges are still particularly rough.

I'm beginning to think it's a clutch related issue

Upchanges are silky smooth - never a single issue selecting any gear, but the pedal is quite stiff... no stiffer than the one on my old cinq - but then thinking about it that had a properly knackered clutch and a cable that was on it's last legs!

Again - I can only describe it as feeling under fuelled - or with some kind of lag going on once you reach a constant speed, which seems to be having a small detrimental effect on my fuel consumption

Can anyone reccomend a GOOD garage in Hull?

 

[ronnieronson]

Sorry to bump post here - thread seems to have gone a bit quiet...

Anyhow, here's where I'm up to:

Been reading some other posts regarding flat spots / drag...

The flatness still remains, feeling like it's under fuelling (although given that she has no problems accelerating I doubt this is the cause).
Feels more like something is perhaps causing drag?

So here come the questions:

*Could be clutch - but cable feels fine after adjustment, upchanges are totally smooth.

So....

*Wheel bearings? - have noticed a little squeaking at low speeds - particularly when the weather is very dry.
Could mashed wheel bearings cause drag?
*Cv boots / joints? - have noticed that the front wheels get dirty twice as quick as the back ones - could this be oil leaking out?

If I let the car roll along out of gear or with clutch depressed the car does actually roll along at a nice constant speed, with no drag at all.
The moment you let the clutch out the car jerks if you don't double clutch - this is true of all gears, but most noticeable from 3rd to 2nd and from 2nd to 1st.

Getting really hacked off with this now, but I really don't want to take it back to Woodcocks for this issue - lost faith in them.

Any help?
:bang:

 

[Smiler121]

Unless it is something more sinister, the front wheels getting dirty thing is probably down to disc & pad wear. I found that when I switched to Black Diamond compounds the wheels get far less dusty & it takes a lot longer.

 

[fingers99]

Is it loosing any oil from the gearbox or engine?

I think you may have two unrelated issues: the downchange problems and the strange running.

I doubt it's a gearbox issue per se: it would have grenaded by now. Possibly oil/contamination on flywheel or clutch?

 

[ronnieronson]

Unless it is something more sinister, the front wheels getting dirty thing is probably down to disc & pad wear. I found that when I switched to Black Diamond compounds the wheels get far less dusty & it takes a lot longer.

Just checked under the car - no aparent leaks from cv joints, so I guess you're right - will bear this in mind when I do my brakes in summer

Is it loosing any oil from the gearbox or engine?

I think you may have two unrelated issues: the downchange problems and the strange running.

I doubt it's a gearbox issue per se: it would have grenaded by now. Possibly oil/contamination on flywheel or clutch?

No leaks, and had gearbox oil changed less than 1000 miles ago.
Is contamination of flywheel / clutch an expensive job?...

I think you're right about the two seperate issues thing - and here's why :devil:

Just been out messing with the sensors (map & ait) - swopped the ait back for my old one, but left the new map sensor in place (scrappy parts).
Engine idle increased to a nice steady 1000rpm, but the car still ran like a dog.

Then made the mistake of disconnecting the MAP & AIT connectors while the engine was running (dumb experiment).
This clearly has upset the ecu in some way - engine warning light now on permenantly.
HOWEVER - took the car out for a drive on some country lanes, and with no word of a lie, she's running the best she ever has! - really responsive in every gear, and less strained (although still not perfect).

Daft question - will resetting my ecu switch off the management light?

 

[fingers99]

To sort out clutch contamination is a gearbox out job. Usually at least a new friction plate, then you've got to work out why: maybe new clutch or crank oil seals, sometimes it just means whoever fitted didn't clean the clutch up beforehand: generally there's a coating on them to prevent contamination.

Yes, the old reset routine should clear the light.

 

[ronnieronson]

To sort out clutch contamination is a gearbox out job. Usually at least a new friction plate, then you've got to work out why: maybe new clutch or crank oil seals, sometimes it just means whoever fitted didn't clean the clutch up beforehand: generally there's a coating on them to prevent contamination.

Yes, the old reset routine should clear the light.

...right... well - will leave the clutch issue for now until funds are a little better.

Will reset the ecu tomorrow, but I'm gonna get a diagnostic done with a local guy (a fellow Sei owner friend of mine recommends him) - I'm hoping to discover coil problems, but given the year mine was made (early 2001) I'm a little worried incase it's the ecu to blame...

I still think you're right - since you mentioned it it does seem very much like I have two separate issues on the go here... *sigh*