Panda (Classic) SEAT Marbella (Mk1 Panda replica).

[kolza]

Quick guide to aluminium/ alloy grades
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/7-things-consider-choosing-aluminum-grade/
I would stick with at least average corrosion resistance. Strength depend on space available, if less than 10mm go for aerospace/ aviation grade.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Quick guide to aluminium/ alloy grades
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/7-things-consider-choosing-aluminum-grade/
I would stick with at least average corrosion resistance. Strength depend on space available, if less than 10mm go for aerospace/ aviation grade.

Thank man! This is going to be epic if it works...will need my hans device on at all times in this car I reckon :devil:

 

[andyholli]

Its epic already!

Mk 1 4x4 bellhousing has opening for starter motor in front of the engine doesn't it Si? - Would that help ease the cutting up?

 

[gtasomogyi]

I think its a bit of a silly idea trying to make it rwd really but cool idea nonetheless, prob be the twitchiest car ever in reality though lol.

I am actually having a future plan making a Marbella (my 'Bella) with Panda 4x4 drivetrain minus the front driveshafts.
And some changes in the engine bay, and than go forward with the doorknobs(/go sideways). :slayer:
AND partly reasons for the RWD Marbella idea are cutting off problems like front driveshaft sealing leaks , grease or tranny oil loss, clicking/cracking/bad 'shafts, and the rarity and fun factor.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

I am actually having a future plan making a Marbella (my 'Bella) with Panda 4x4 drivetrain minus the front driveshafts.
And some changes in the engine bay, and than go forward with the doorknobs(/go sideways). :slayer:
AND partly reasons for the RWD Marbella idea are cutting off problems like front driveshaft sealing leaks , grease or tranny oil loss, clicking/cracking/bad 'shafts, and the rarity and fun factor.

There are some guys on here that have fitted the 4x4 panda stuff into the Marbella...it offers much better rust prevention and of course has the leaf spring rear suspension ready to accept 4x4 rear axle

I don't know if anyone has actually done the rear wheel drive Panda idea but I kinda want to see what happens too! Don't get me started on driveshaft sealing leaks haha, they literally cannot be stopped I sware!

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Its epic already!

Mk 1 4x4 bellhousing has opening for starter motor in front of the engine doesn't it Si? - Would that help ease the cutting up?

Hi Andy, sorry I missed your message. Unfortunately I cannot make use of the starter motor being on the other side as the exhaust / turbo / water cooling pipe (similar to the one on the FIRE engine) is all right in the way there

But I think I can do this now though anyway. Will be welding up a jig sort of thing soon, which I can hopefully use to draw up a plate with the correct bolt pattern. Literally none of the original bolt holes are in the same place between Y10 turbo and FIRE but I have found 2 holes which are put into the bell housings that are in the same location on both which makes things much easier! I assume these were used in the manufacture of the housings as they don't have any purpose on the Y10 engine at least...

I hope a groovy update coming soon! :slayer:

 

[gtasomogyi]

I'm not sure about soo better rust prevention, but yes, leaf springs make things easier on the back.
Well, I'm on my way for a 'Bella RWD, but first a job should be on it's way for me.
HAHA Yes, I suffer with that too. I did on left out and inside, again, because already did once when changed the shafts. But the outer got greasy in days, and the inside dripped the tranny oil, so got parts, and did it again. Well, does not drip anymore, but outside is hella grease. -.- And you can't get proper parts here for front driveshafts. Got scrapped on right, but cracks in tighter turns, and got complete left new, but was short with 30mm's, so had to take old and new apart and build up on old shaft the new rest.
That is too why I am longing for an RWD. :3

 

[Giacosa]

So here are the differences between FIRE bolt pattern and Y10 pattern (left FIRE 4x4, right Y10 turbo 2wd):

One confusing thing...the bottom edge of the bell housing I think should be horizontal with the car. The top edge is normally also horizontal on both my mk1 and the Y10 turbo. Can anyone confirm that the top of the bell housing is not horizontal but is sloped on their FIRE Pandas?

I will need to check the prop shaft exit angle is right anyway, but thought I should check if I'm thinking right...

Checked my Y10 Fire and the top of the bellhousing is not horizontal to the car. It slopes gently with the bulkhead end higher.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Checked my Y10 Fire and the top of the bellhousing is not horizontal to the car. It slopes gently with the bulkhead end higher.

Brilliant, thanks Kris! I thought it would be as the gearbox linkage has to be horizontal. But in case I was missing something silly, was worth a check I thought! (maybe I need to get one of these new fandangled post '86 FIRE Pandas that are out now....for comparisons at least :devil

 

[andyholli]

(maybe I need to get one of these new fandangled post '86 FIRE Pandas that are out now....for comparisons at least :devil

- Just more to go wrong, do it!.:yum:

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

- Just more to go wrong, do it!.:yum:

I have another question you might be able to help with :devil:...is there a good supplier of the gearbox locating dowels? The ones which are hollow and the bolts clamp through? All mine seem to have sheared or are missing from the spare gearbox / engines...

I can find people selling them though, but not for Fiat and very few with actual measurements (i.e. they're sold specifically for one car)...that's from trawling ebay! And it doesn't seem to be something which is sold often from gearbox specialists either.

Any recommendations? I need Ø15 and Ø16mm hollow dowels really.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Long time no update...lots of pondering and procrastination but the plan is in full swing now with most the parts I need with me now or on their way!

Today I started welding up the hole positioning jig which will allow me to mark up and drill all the holes accurately (I hope) into my shiney new gearbox adaptor kit (aka a 10mm thick aluminium plate yet to be cut)... 6082T6 grade...

So here is the starting point...I checked my theory that there are actually holes in common places on these gearboxes by welding this up:

The dowels will slot into the holes on one gearbox and line up with the output shaft in the centre. If right then it will slot nicely onto both gearboxes and I will have created a datum for all other hole positions to be referenced to

This was all welded in situ on the Y10 gearbox so a good fit of course:

And then placed onto the FIRE 4x4 gearbox:

So it's go go go! Will weld up all the other bolt hole dowels tomorrow I hope. The clever bit is by using the hollow dowels, I can run a drill through the centre so that I know the holes will be in the right place :slayer:

Once the jig is complete I simply clamp it onto the plate and drill out all the holes in one go

There are a few holes which need to be drilled into this plate though (warning confusing diagram ahoy)...

Exciting times, will be giving the 4x4 gearbox a good check over before it goes in, and need to decide if the panda 4x4 gear ratios are kept or not. Might be better to switch out the gear set / final drive gear from the Y10 box... open to advice from the infinite wisdom of the clan though of course

 

[panda1408]

Excellent shed engineering going on here Si! I have one question and that is how are you going to deal with the fact the input shaft is 10mm further away from the flywheel than it should be?

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Excellent shed engineering going on here Si! I have one question and that is how are you going to deal with the fact the input shaft is 10mm further away from the flywheel than it should be?

or "shedgineering" as it may be known :devil:...I believe this will be ok. There is enough spare length on the splines and I think the clutch control arm travel should also be ok as well.

I will keep checking these things though as it all goes along, as some things are hard to spot without trying...or that is my excuse for not planning properly at least haha!

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

More progress ...

The hole position jig is now complete (looking a bit like a channel 4 advert) and so the plate will hopefully be cut out and drilled tomorrow. It isn't completely unreasonable to suggest that the plate will be completed this weekend...but I won't suggest that in case things go wrong!

So the Jig all welded up:

It is much more clear where the starter motor will sit now and which bits of the FIRE bell housing require cutting:

And the basic principle...cut out outline...drill holes...cut out centre around the crank output...bam...adaptorino cus! :devil:...

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

So progressing well as have a plate with holes in...just need to cut the profile and inner bits out so it can be offered up to the engine / gearbox :slayer:

The jig was bolted through the plate roughly in the right place and secure enough to stop any movement while drilling...

and one plate with holes in...

:devil:

 

[Giacosa]

This is excellent! You have gone full project Binky on us

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Well cut out the main shape and it all fits / lines up nicely. I've got to make some dowels up and add a stud, and drill out the starter motor hole but I am missing tools for this which means I can put my feet up till shops are open

So this is as far as I got:

:slayer:

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Epic work Si! You are an engineering legend!

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Epic work Si! You are an engineering legend!

Thanks Andy, but I haven't tried it yet...what if it all explodes? haha

I need to take the gearbox apart though to make sure all is good inside...did notice a bit more play in the diff than would expect so might switch the diff from my Y10 gearbox...and while at it will check all the gear ratios are suitable too

Then dare I say...fit gearbox and find out what terrible thing I have missed haha