General Same problem.....

[Vicstress]

This is so confusing!

Why do the 2 blues keys need different codes and how does the car go about doing that.

How do you get the code onto the new key? I assumed it was by going through the key programming sequence in the car?

 

[neoseal]

When you go to a good key cutter, they have a machine to read and transfer codes. All that the ecu does is learn the codes, it doesnt transfer the codes into the key. ECU is a computer whose codes sequence keeps on changing (its all complex electronics). All that the red key does is that opens the programming circuit of the ecu to make the ecu learn the new codes in the blue key. I am not sure but just for security measures it needs two different codes.
Now you say you are in option 1, it means ecu is loosing codes. I dont know may be loose connection to the ecu power supply.

 

[Vicstress]

Surely the key cutter needs to get those codes from somewhere though?

 

[Vicstress]

Or should I say, where do the codes come from in the first place if the ECU doesn't store them and the red key doesn't store them?

Sorry, I know this is probably basic stuff......

 

[jug]

The car won't start with any key when its dead! Only way to get it going is to disconnect the battery then reprogram the red and blue key and away it goes - works for a while and then dies again.

this tells me several things, firstly it is not possible to reprogram only 1 red and 1 blue key (i tried for days and learnt about all this the hard way), so if the car started after disconnecting the battery what must have actually occured was a simple ecu reset due to disconnecting the battery. this means your problem is not with the keys. it sounds more likely to me that you have intermittent ecu failure, or a wiring failure in the ecu/ immob circuitry.

i would also like to know what the diagnostics fault code was, it could not have said explicitly that a second blue key is required for programming (although true) because a diagnositc check would not examine key codes stored in the ecu, and since the car sometimes works after an ecu reset the ecu must hold the required key codes already (because i know for a fact you can not program only 1 red and 1 blue into the ecu so previous attempts to reprogram key codes must have had no effect at all).

the plot thickens! i feel an ecu fault coming on, hopefully its just a dodgy wire, but ecu feels likely to me.

 

[neoseal]

The red key code is permanently stored in the ecu. It is the blue key codes that the ecu has to learn. Different car manufacturers have different ecu systems with different code generating sequences. So you can programme fiat codes into fiat cars only that too with the help of red key which opens up the ecu circuit to introduce new code into the ecu system.

The key cutter doesnt have any codes with him. It is us who has to provide the code. That is where the "stealing of codes" like jug said, comes in i.e to get codes from another fiat blue keys.

One more thing, if fiat charges £50 for a single blue key, they should provide a valid fiat code in it.

 

[Hellcat]

Just like to point out that new Fiat blue keys DO have a code. It's laser cut. Cannot be changed.

A blue key from Timpsons has a eprom (erasable programmable read only memory). This can be programmed with a code copied from another key.

If you don't have a red key and your blue keys are worn, or you have lost one then the only option is for Timpsons* to cut you a new key and copy your codes. How good the cut will be is debabtable as they're copying a worn key.

If you do have the red and you have worn or lost blue keys, you have 2 options.

1. Get new keys from Fiat. Get them cut from your red key and then use your red key to teach your ecu the new keys.

2. Get 2 keys from Timpsons. Get them cut from your red key and then clone with 2 blue keys from your friends Fiat. Then teach your ECU the new keys using your red key.

As for supplying a single blue key - Wentane motors only supply them in pairs as you need (at least?) 2 to teach the ECU.

*or any other key cutting company with the ability to clone Fiat key codes.

 

[Vicstress]

Just spoken to the dealer and they're going to take the car to Fiat, that way we can find out what's wrong. If it's a new ECU needed, we'll get a second hand one....

THanks for all your replies!

 

[jug]

welldone hellcat i didnt know that fiat supplies thier keys pre-coded